Wheel Types & Weight
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  1. #1
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    Default Wheel Types & Weight

    I've been wondering - typically, how much lighter are alloy wheels compared to steel wheels?

    Also, as you increase wheel size, how much heavier does the actual rim become?

    Would be interesting to see how tyre weights vary with size as well.

    Granted, I'm sure there are various variables that come into play, but are there any rough rules of thumb?

    Aussiefrogs is one of the few forums I visit where there are some people who aren't obsessed with putting the largest possible wheels on their car. I suspect it's because of unsprung weight, hence the subject of this post

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    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
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    This is one of the reasons I toyed with the idea of putting 14inch rims on the GTi6 for track work - less unsprung weight means the suspension can work better - less wheel and tyre weight means less inertia to overcome, and more power available to accelerate the car, rather than just turning the wheels around.

    The thing that brought me undone was the crap range of tyres available in 14inch though.
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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    Good point but u don't get the tyre width avail in the 14s as well. The wider the tyre the more traction and better a car sticks in corners(with in reason). I'm not talking 235mm wide for you Juzzy or a semi tubed rear end on the 307...

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    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    Justin,

    I just did a quick comparo of the swift rims.

    Standard GTi steelie 5inchx14, 175/60x14 = 14.5kg
    CSA 3 spoke mags, 185/60x14 = 15.5kg
    Enkei 5.5x13inch rim = 5kg , Toyo Proxy (well worn) 185/60x13 = 7.5kg
    Auscar 5 spoke 5.5inchx14, 185/60x14 Yokohama Ao32R = 15kg
    Auscar shadow 15inch, 195/50x15 = 16.5kg

    Generally speaking alloys weigh at least as much as the steel rims, in some cases more. The magnesium rims is where the weight gains can be made.
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    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    just seen Brenno's post, hehe, looks like I might be wrong.
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    I haven't got time to look at Brenno's links, but if this is what you meant, Tekkie, ignore me!

    I was just going to point out that MOST alloys of the same size as steels are lighter, but badly designed ones (that need mass for strength) can be heavier. Older designs of alloys were reasonably regularly heavier because they didn't have the benefit of computer stress analysis etc. BTW I read this somewhere, but can't remember where - some magazine.
    Stu

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    Foxman weighed his Rims & tyres...

    Comparing the old 15" stockies with tyres to the new 17" racing hearts with tyres (all four) turned out to be about 4-8kgs lighter in total.

    I'll have to do mine @ some stage... will post the results

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    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nate
    Foxman weighed his Rims & tyres...

    Comparing the old 15" stockies with tyres to the new 17" racing hearts with tyres (all four) turned out to be about 4-8kgs lighter in total.

    I'll have to do mine @ some stage... will post the results
    Wow - that's incredible. I've never heard of 17's being lighter than 15's - what make / model of tyres and wheels were they? Any idea?

    Cheers
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    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    yup agree with the quality "alloys" statement.

    what I meant that steel is much stronger than alloy hence there is much less material needed to maintain the same strength compared to the mostly alluminium material wheel.
    Magnesium rims (alloy and magnesium compounds and some other exotic metals) allow for the weight reduction at much higher cost.
    .
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  11. #11
    XTC
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    Some alloy and wheel weights at www.206gti.net/faq

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  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I was just talking about this very thing at work today (Holden) and the influence "alloys" have on un->sprung mass ratios. The dude on tyre fit (Ron) said "ave a feel then" and i did - i was shocked that an Acclaim : 15" steel rim (spare) weighed far-far less than the 15" alloys. The problem got worse with the larger diameter rims on cars like the SS and the Pontiac GTO. Dont forget these tyres have a very similar outer-diameter but they weigh so much more.

    I thought the rubber was the heavy bit, but man i was wrong. I knew i felt a magical connection with those OZ-Racing rims i touched along time ago....


    ....mmmm.....cast magnesium.....drool*wipe

    Superleggera monoblock 15" x 7" : 4.9kg
    Chrono Evolution 17" x 7" : 7.5kg
    Last edited by XsaraVTS; 14th April 2004 at 04:24 AM.

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    1000+ Posts parry's Avatar
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    I just put some 205 pepperpots on the scales and they come in at 6.5kg. That seems quite good for a 14inch Aloy standard wheel.
    90 205 Gti Cherry Red(Track Car)
    2009 207gti
    1985 505gti (Shitbox Rally) Sold

    PBs:

    Oran Park: 1:27:9
    Wakefield: 1:05.6 (July 2015)
    Eastern Creek: 1:54 (8v) 1:48 (16V)
    Mt Huntley: 34.44 (2004 stock 205)
    Ringwood: 35.06 (30/10/2005)
    Winton: 1:33.6 (2017)

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N5GTi6

    The thing that brought me undone was the crap range of tyres available in 14inch though.
    That's a bit rash! Parry and I have been using Dunlop D01J 185/60/14 on pepperpots with great success.

    Parry,
    what do you think of the new geometry? I went for a drive today. It all seemed very nice. I've got some daggy tyres on ready for the dyno.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Wheel Types & Weight-lhfront.jpg  

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  15. #15
    Tadpole
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    Icon1 Materials info

    Hi,

    A few quick rules of thumb from a mid-70's book (racing car design and development by Len Terry and Alan Baker)...

    Tensile strengths

    - Mild steel (carbon content of about 02.%) has a tensile strength of about 28 tons / square inch.
    - Alloy steels go up to about 90 tons/sq inch
    - Aluminium alloys go from about 9 to 30 tons/sq inch (but have less useful fatigue properties)
    - Magnesium has about 1/2 the tensile strength of Aluminium
    - Titanium has about the same strength as steel (and the same fatigue properties as steel)

    Weight

    For equal volumes...

    - Aluminium weighs about 1/3 as much as steel
    - Magnesium weighs about 2/3 as much as aluminium (2/9 as much as steel)
    - Titanium weighs 1/2 as much as steel

    Don't know if this helps the thread much, buts its amusing


    Titanium would be pleasing - same tensile strength + same fatigue properties of steel (i.e. you need the same volume of material) but only half the weight.

    Magnesium involves using more material (to get the overall strength up) but it weighs very little - so you might have to double the volume but you get an overall weight saving anyway.

    Cheers,

    T
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  16. #16
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Stop reading that stuff. You'll go blind. Mild steel is 0.2%C. Magnesium is great for wheels but burns like nothing else.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    That's a bit rash! Parry and I have been using Dunlop D01J 185/60/14 on pepperpots with great success.

    Parry,
    what do you think of the new geometry? I went for a drive today. It all seemed very nice. I've got some daggy tyres on ready for the dyno.
    I love the go fast mods peter. No red pin-stripe, aerodynamic tape on the guard and the weight saving fog light-lessness.

  18. #18
    Tadpole
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    Default whoops

    Put the period in the wrong spot (sic)
    --

    "Aaaaarrgghhhhhhhh..."

    205 GTi 1.9

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts parry's Avatar
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    Pete give me a call tomorrow, for some reason I cant reply to your PMs, I need your 309 wishbones!!!! and other things to discuss.
    90 205 Gti Cherry Red(Track Car)
    2009 207gti
    1985 505gti (Shitbox Rally) Sold

    PBs:

    Oran Park: 1:27:9
    Wakefield: 1:05.6 (July 2015)
    Eastern Creek: 1:54 (8v) 1:48 (16V)
    Mt Huntley: 34.44 (2004 stock 205)
    Ringwood: 35.06 (30/10/2005)
    Winton: 1:33.6 (2017)

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parry
    Pete give me a call tomorrow, for some reason I cant reply to your PMs, I need your 309 wishbones!!!! and other things to discuss.
    Can you call me? I'll be on the road from 7AM.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    That's a bit rash! Parry and I have been using Dunlop D01J 185/60/14 on pepperpots with great success.

    .........snip.......
    Maybe I should have added the bit about the width too. Aren't the 205 rims 5.5inch? Which means that a 185 is a great fit, and a good size for a car which weighs under 900kg's. The 306 weighs closer to 1200kg's (lardy bugger that it is) and hence 6inch rims would be better. Harder to get? I'm not sure - I'd like some 6*14's to suit a Gti6 though just to try them!
    '07 C3 Exclusive
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  22. #22
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N5GTi6
    Maybe I should have added the bit about the width too. Aren't the 205 rims 5.5inch? Which means that a 185 is a great fit, and a good size for a car which weighs under 900kg's. The 306 weighs closer to 1200kg's (lardy bugger that it is) and hence 6inch rims would be better. Harder to get? I'm not sure - I'd like some 6*14's to suit a Gti6 though just to try them!
    BX16V or early Mi16. Not sure about the offset though.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
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    You've just got to have a look at the list here. It's by far the most comprehensive list I've ever seen.

    http://chado.boostcruising.com/wheelweight_am.asp

    Cheers
    '07 C3 Exclusive
    '10 308 Sportium Touring
    '12 Megane RS265 8:08

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    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
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    We did some tyre changing on the 604 and teh Transit the other day, and I was surprised how much lighter the 14 inch 604 alloys were compared to the 14inch Ford steels. They were half as heavy or less.
    Nothing compared to the optional Citroen SM carbon fibre wheels though. They weigh in at around 4 kg.
    Pugs Rule!

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  25. #25
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    Here's my results... (using the bathroom *digital* scales)

    Stock RS Clio Alloys & Tyres = 15.8
    New TMW 17" Alloys & Tyres = 17.4

    A large increase, so i'll have to get the suspension etc reworked.

    Does anyone know anybody or point me in the right direction to get my car back into tune again?

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