How do you make a 500hp 306 (NO JOKE!)
  • Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 45
  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    270

    Default How do you make a 500hp 306 (NO JOKE!)

    ok guys, this one is aimed at the people on here who really know their stuff about making race engines... please no people saying im crazy, coz i already know but im too crazy to stop now

    Advertisement


    Ok, i have no mechanical training what so ever, only a basic understanding and all the people i go to want to know heaps of technical info, which i dont have....

    So heres the thing...........

    Money is almost no object as its going to be spread over about 2 years

    I want an engine around 500hp.... i should be happy with that, as anything over 250kw atw will just be silly

    So here's how i plan it..... (still making calls and finding out stuff every day)

    Forged pistons, but i dont know what size to overbore... the more the better i think... but how thick are my liners and how much can i bore them, or can i buy some other ones that are better?

    Rods, the best i can get my hands on, as revving to 9 or 10k rpm would be fun, but what else do i ned to rev this hard?

    Crank, what do i do to strengthen it, but what are my options? are there any stroker kits or other cranks i can use for more displacement?

    Headwork.... finished... apart from getting my cam welded up and re-ground

    My turbo can put out 400hp... so a 100 or 150 shot of direct port NOS should do for the extra punch at the strip, or would a bigger turbo be better?

    Im tryingto call Hollinger to make some custom gears, but apart from that i've only seen a rally dog box for the 306 thats $15k.... so have you guys seen anything under $8k that can handle the power?

    What engine work, ie. special gaskets and machining, are needed for around 25psi of boost and a 100hp hit of NOS?

    Oh, and im getting a custom inlet manifold made for more flow and to suit bigger injectors and the direct NOS


    So, whew... man im outa breath.........

    What else do i need.... if anyone out there has done this to an engine, or maybe even a pug?

    Oh and asap info if you guys can, coz i gotta start ordering parts....

    cheers....
    Last edited by turbopeugeot306; 6th April 2004 at 03:46 PM.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    1,063

    Default

    Have you got atleast $50k to spend on the engine? Well an engine that is NOT the current one. Your never going to get it with the current 8v engine.

    If you don't this thread is a waste of time

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    270

    Default

    really think i cant get 500hp out of the 8v?

    im planning around $5k on internals... just their cost... i have some1 to put it all together for me, so dont include any labour costs.......

    custom inlet manifold.... $1600 + 600cc or similar injectors + cost of direct port NOS

    around $5-8k for the gearbox

    if its gonna cost $50k.... list the stuff i need atleast... and once again i might even spnd $50k if need be.... this is no joke
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    270

    Default

    oh, BTW the plan is to make this thing (stripped w/ no audio gear) run an 11-12 second pass time after time.... ie. fast and bulletproof

    and yes thats on m/t slicks w/ suspension work.....
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    29

    Default

    [QUOTE=turbopeugeot306]oh, BTW the plan is to make this thing (stripped w/ no audio gear) run an 11-12 second pass time after time.... ie. fast and bulletproof

    Fast, yes ... bulletproof...not so sure...
    500hp engine i think it will be blowing many bits and pieces of that peugeot motor apart? maybe im mistaken....i just cant personally see a peugeot block maintaining that power for very long.
    and for a 500hp motor i wouldnt wanna run any less than 10's !

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    270

    Default

    well under 10's would be fun... but i dont wana make too many changes to the cars setup so i can still drive it around corners

    11's i would be happy with and dont think its too outs reach with REALLY hard suspension put on for when it goes to the strip, then taken off for street driving...

    Any help on a step by step process on building this?

    Oh, and you mentioned the block... what can i do there....

    BTW... if i can get 200kw atw i would still be happy is this more realistic? the reason i want to use the origional engine is pretty much to stay away from regency......

    Oh, info on revving the car to 9-10k revs wuld be good too
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

  7. #7
    Banned orestes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Sunshine Coast
    Posts
    4,520

    Default

    put quite simply i dont think this is very posible out of a peugeot engine, even T16's didnt make these sort of horses. raceing spec T16's hardly made this kind of horse power and that was on 4 wheels
    Last edited by orestes; 6th April 2004 at 05:14 PM.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    2035
    Posts
    1,937

    Default

    My only suggestion would be to call Northshore Rallysport in Artarmon here in Sydney. They might seem to be a bit stand-offish at first but it would be interesting to hear what they have to say after you have established that you indeed have the time, money and mental instability to complete this project.

    As far as I know they have had the greatest experience in Peugeot race motors in Australia, although it is mostly rally/circuit/tarmac stuff.

    I don't think your project is unacheivable but I reckon you sure have chosen a path that could well end up in a lot of wasted money, and a lot of tears.

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    29

    Default

    have u read the article on jamie tonks's 94 205 with a 306 gti6 engine?
    they've done sum good work to that. on throttle bodys its making somewhere around 240 hp N/A. i guess a configuration like his, PLus a turbo, plus a good whack of nitrous... maybe you would get close?
    if theres no one around here that can do it for ya, put the engine in a box and send it to richard longman in uk.

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    270

    Default

    ok, (not being an asshole, so please dont anyone take it that way)

    every1 has their opinion, but....... im really only looking for people who build or have built race engines... and especially any over 300hp

    please, if you dont think its possible please tell me technically why...

    or even better you can say how its technically possible....

    im not looking for a thread of people just saying im crazy... again this isnt a joke... im trying to build a VERY crazy 306... and this is the only place i know of where i might be able to get info on doing it....

    if i wanted a 500hp 200sx i could go to nissansilvia.com and find out in 2 seconds.... and have it built in that time too, am i going to have to resort on buying one of these or a gtr (neither have any class, just japan muscle) to shit my pants or can i do it in a 306

    i dont want some rice rocket... i want a frog with a rocket up its arse... so please help if you want to see how far a 306 can be pushed
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    1,063

    Default

    To make that sort of power your going to need a 16v headed engine for a start. The poor old 8v wont be able to flow enough air for 500hp.

    You'd need the best of everything. Everything would need to be custom ie, rods, crank, pistons etc etc. I'm not sure if this engine uses liners or not? Most parts I'd say will have to be titanium which is sometimes called "unobtanium".

    You will need a BIG turbo eg a GT3037 or similar. Huge injectors, a totally custom inlet manifold, a huge intercooler....the list goes on. You will also need to run high boost as you have mentioned. The NOS will help spool the turbo off the line although this is not such a problem with a manual.

    You will need custom driveshafts, CV's etc and a VERY good diff in a VERY strong gearbox. To cope with that sort of power you'll have to look at what is available in the UK or go for a custom gearset from one of the better gearbox places such as Hollinger. although I'm not sure if they will have anything suitable for you. Remember that because this is such a radical project you will pay BIG $$$$ for most of your parts as they will be one-off items. And also be prepared for noone wanting to do things for you. Most companies just say its too hard and don't want to go through the hassle.

    Good luck with it but even I wouldn't attempt this. If you really want 500hp from a FWD 4cyl go buy a Honda. And I'm serious.

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    270

    Default

    can i just say that a hard tuned NA is a POS when forced induction is applied..... they are two completely different systems....

    just to mention the valve timing on a hard tuned NA would just let all the NOS and Turbo to blow straight thrugh the chamber....


    BTW correct me if im wrong...
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    1,063

    Default

    One other thing. My car is making pretty much the same HP as yours, except in a car that weighs 840kg. Now mine will do a low 13sec pass with a decent diff. By running more nitrous (which I may do yet) I could probably sneak into the 12's. Now this is pretty damn quick. At this point I'd be making approx 150kw at the wheels. If you only wanted 200kw at the wheels I'd say its not too much of a hassle to get there with the right setup. That would involve changing quite a few things of your current setup though.

    The other option is to buy my car and you've only spent $12k and all the hard work is already done.

  14. #14
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    2,404

    Default

    I'm have never built an engine but I do consider myself quite technically minded. As fun and aewsome as it sounds to have a 500hp pug, you have to consider this...

    You current engine puts out say 100hp stock at around 6,000rpm. With an 8v head you might get 8,000 usefull revs before power falls away. That's 133% of the current 100hp revs. Provided you can flow the engine, you could theoretically get 133hp at 8,000rpm excluding any mods and keeping the torque at those revs. 500hp/133hp = 3.75. By this calculation, you'd need to pump 55psi (3.75bar) into the engine AT LEAST and all the internals would need to withstand 3.75+ times the explosive power. I just can't see that this would be physically possible without using a different block.

    Can I suggest that you look at an XU10J4 engine as a starting point as the money spent here would be saved in the lesser mods required.
    B to the R to the A from the D
    1994 MX5 Clubman...are you sure it's not French?

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    1,063

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by turbopeugeot306
    can i just say that a hard tuned NA is a POS when forced induction is applied..... they are two completely different systems....

    just to mention the valve timing on a hard tuned NA would just let all the NOS and Turbo to blow straight thrugh the chamber....


    BTW correct me if im wrong...
    Your wrong dude.

    Just look at my car. And a mates Civic has some pretty decent cams in it and its turboed.

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    270

    Default

    bang, now you're talking my language so i can say more....

    pistons... JE forged items... but i need to know the info to give them so they can make hem... or maybe they just need me to send a sample piston....

    Rods, yeah custom ones, the best i can buy... but how much are they...

    Crank.... i would like to use my origional one... strengthen it somehow... i know custom ones can be around $5k.... so i dont really want one of them....

    bearings... i have no idea about them....

    inlet manifold etc all custom.... and big injectors... my turbo would be fine tho.... just need the nos to give me the extra punch with the exhaust housing of the turbo upgraded to take the extra flow of gas....

    hollinger are the go, i think they can make custom gears.... c.v.'s i dont care if i eat the first set... as long as i have already had a set of beefy custom ones made...

    im getting it all put together... but i really need info on the internals of the engine, and how they should be put together and built

    again, im not joking about this
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    270

    Default

    how much psi.... i was told any more than 10psi is a waste of time... and to me anything less than 10psi when you've forked out the money 4 turbo is a waste of time.... 20-30psi is more like it
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    270

    Default

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    just for myt205 that comment was..... please dont turn this thread into a debate over turboing or nos'n NA engines
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

  19. #19
    Cal
    Cal is offline
    Moderator Cal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    1,624

    Default

    Can't believe you guys have enough time on your hands to bother discussing this project. Even if it were possible, this shit heap is going to torque steer itself into the 1st tree in comes across.

    Cal.
    1995 Mazda MX5 - 2F Race Car
    1990 Mercedes 300TE
    1990 Mercedes 230E
    1977 Jaguar XJS V12
    1971 Morris Mini 1100K
    1967 Porsche 911S
    1957 Porsche 356A Speedster Replica

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    1,063

    Default

    Your turbo hasn't got a hope in hell of getting anywhere near 500hp. Whoever told you this is a d^%$head!!!

    And I can't see the standard crank holding together either. Its not a case of what MIGHT be good enough, but what you will NEED. If you skimp on one part it will break. I guarantee it.

    You will need to run about 20psi+ to achieve the power. You need to speak to a turbo guru to find out what they recommend though. You need to work out where the turbo will be in the meat of its efficiency range. This will produce the most power with the coolest natural charge for that level of power.

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    270

    Default

    yawn, cal keep your opinion to yourself if you cant say why it wont work, this is most of the reason i hate posting on here....

    unfortunately i cant find many other places for this info...

    my turbo is the 400hp version of the GT25... so the turbine will need to be upgraded, but a new turbo is an easy purchase...


    i need engine builders to give me info on the restraints i have and what i have to do to get this kinda power....
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! Reno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    1,260

    Default

    i agree with Cal.


  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! briz205's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Auckland New Zealand
    Posts
    894

    Default

    hI Turbo306,

    Your best bet is to holler on down to the drags one night and get the details of the guys who worked on the 10sec pass cars. I doubt anyone will give you the time of day until you start waving cold hard cash. Anything is possible so get off your butt and down to the turbo boys.

    Cheers Nick

  24. #24
    Banned orestes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Sunshine Coast
    Posts
    4,520

    Default

    buy yourself a T16 and save yourself the hastles road going pugs werent made to with stand this kind of horsepower good luck

    http://www.carclassic.com/html/DL75.htm

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    270

    Default

    BTW thehead has had some serious work on it...

    but i guess i wont know 'till i've got it off and flow test it

    Chris Milton said it was in the region of 400hp without testing tho
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •