505 Sti auto trans service
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Thread: 505 Sti auto trans service

  1. #1
    Member blizzardboy's Avatar
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    Icon5 505 Sti auto trans service

    Hello all,

    I have just purchased a 1984 505 STi with 3spd auto. First up will be a service for the 3HP22 transmission. I would appreciate comment on the procedure:

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    I purchase a new mesh filter, a filter gasket, a pan gasket, and some ATF (3.5 litres of Dextron II). Will an aftermarket filter be OK or should I stick with ZF genuine?

    I then drop the pan, drain old ATF off, clean pan + magnets, renew gaskets and filter (with 27 Torx), replace pan and then fill up ATF.

    How does that sound? I do not as yet have a workshop manual.
    -------------------------------------
    1984 Peugeot 505 STi auto

  2. #2
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    that sounds ok

    the main thing with ZF boxes is keeping the filter clean and changing the oil and they should last very well

    they are expensive when they go bluey though so keep her serviced and she will reward you
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    Member blizzardboy's Avatar
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    Default and the air cleaner?

    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    that sounds ok

    the main thing with ZF boxes is keeping the filter clean and changing the oil and they should last very well

    they are expensive when they go bluey though so keep her serviced and she will reward you
    Thank you.

    I'm not sure if I should start a new thread or not, but I'll ask anyway. The air filter in my STi is a long cylinder with yellow foam on the inside and metal mesh on the outside. Is this a throw-away job or do I need to rinse and add new oil (like some motorbike air cleaners)? If it is throw away can I get after market or will I need to buy Pug genuine?

    Thanx again for the quick reply Pugrambo.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blizzardboy
    Thank you.

    I'm not sure if I should start a new thread or not, but I'll ask anyway. The air filter in my STi is a long cylinder with yellow foam on the inside and metal mesh on the outside. Is this a throw-away job or do I need to rinse and add new oil (like some motorbike air cleaners)? If it is throw away can I get after market or will I need to buy Pug genuine?

    Thanx again for the quick reply Pugrambo.

    there was another thread on here not so long ago talking about the exact same thing

    there were two part numbers for complete filter and the foam element

    if you do a search for filter it should come up but if not start a thread up and the person who started it last time should still have the numbers for you
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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    Member blizzardboy's Avatar
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    Cheers Pugrambo.

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    Fellow Frogger! PCOATES505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blizzardboy
    Hello all,

    I have just purchased a 1984 505 STi with 3spd auto. First up will be a service for the 3HP22 transmission. I would appreciate comment on the procedure:

    I purchase a new mesh filter, a filter gasket, a pan gasket, and some ATF (3.5 litres of Dextron II). Will an aftermarket filter be OK or should I stick with ZF genuine?

    I then drop the pan, drain old ATF off, clean pan + magnets, renew gaskets and filter (with 27 Torx), replace pan and then fill up ATF.

    How does that sound? I do not as yet have a workshop manual.
    -------------------------------------
    1984 Peugeot 505 STi auto
    Sounds great in theory!!

    Care must be taken when removing the filter bolts, they are different lengths and go in specific spots. If someone has been there before you and put bolts in wrong spots ie a longer one where a short one should be, then the filter can be almost impossible to remove, because the bolt may have penetrated through and rubbed on the clutch drum and burred the end of the bolt.
    Hope this is not the case. Regards Pete
    2pac likes this.

    I am gunna get another 403 on the road........one day

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    Fellow Frogger! 604 tragic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blizzardboy
    Hello all,

    I have just purchased a 1984 505 STi with 3spd auto. First up will be a service for the 3HP22 transmission. I would appreciate comment on the procedure:

    I purchase a new mesh filter, a filter gasket, a pan gasket, and some ATF (3.5 litres of Dextron II). Will an aftermarket filter be OK or should I stick with ZF genuine?

    I then drop the pan, drain old ATF off, clean pan + magnets, renew gaskets and filter (with 27 Torx), replace pan and then fill up ATF.

    How does that sound? I do not as yet have a workshop manual.
    -------------------------------------
    1984 Peugeot 505 STi auto

    A few tips:
    I would stick with a new ZF filter (if you can get one).
    Be careful with the Torx & make sure its properly seated in the bolt before undoing or you may strip the head There are 2 lengths so dont get them mixed up. Measure the oil that comes out to get an idea of how much to put back.
    Important bit is measuring the proper fluid level after changeover.

    1/ Measure the ATF with the engine running as this lowers the level of fluid - measuring with the engine stopped gives a false high level.

    2/ If you add ATF, wait a bit before checking again until it gets into the system. Then check both sides of the dipstick in case it has picked up some ATF from the side of the tube.

    3/ Try and 'stab' the dipstick into the bottom of the tube and then quickly pull it out.

    4/ Do it 3 times and take the 'average' level before deciding whether to add more (or remove) ATF.

    5/ Try not to overfill the transmission.

    It is a hard measurement to do - as it takes a bit of practice to get confident.

    Goodluck - these ZFs are quite OK campared with the dud transaxle ones on 405s & BXs
    So many projects - so little time.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    I was looking for a replacement tranny filter a few weeks ago and the Pug dealer didn't have any in stock, so I went to EAI who had what looked like a generic replacement made in Taiwan.

    I was told by the parts guy at Peugeot that the filters don't really need changing, just a good clean and then they can be reused. I wanted to buy a filter anyway so I bought the Taiwanese one as I couldn't be bothered going back to Peugeot to order a genuine filter. Maybe this wasn't such a good idea, I really should have stuck to genuine stuff but I was in a hurry to buy one.

    So yeah, buy genuine if you can, it would most likely be of better quality and filter more of the gunk out than a Taiwanese copy.

    Cheers,
    Richard
    - Richard

    Now: 405 SRI D70 '93
    - 2.0L manual
    Earlier: 505 GTi Executive '85
    - hence "Silver Exec"...
    25 GTX '86
    - manual conversion

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    Quote Originally Posted by 604 tragic
    1/ Measure the ATF with the engine running as this lowers the level of fluid - measuring with the engine stopped gives a false high level.

    2/ If you add ATF, wait a bit before checking again until it gets into the system. Then check both sides of the dipstick in case it has picked up some ATF from the side of the tube.
    Also, cycle the shifter from Park through all positions, slowly, then stop it in Neutral to take the reading. This is the general auto procedure so should be right on such a conventional box.

  10. #10
    Member blizzardboy's Avatar
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    Thank you all for your replies.

    After doing all my own research I decided to get a professional to service my auto. I did insist that he replace the filter with a ZF genuine. These are a common box so there are no probs in buying genuine. I found a ZF distributor who would sell me the kit for $43 (pan gasket, filter and o-ring; ZF part number 1043 223 021). There are 2 different types for these boxes so you need to crawl under and look up the transmission part number (1043 000 XXX) if you are going to buy one yourself.

    The transmission guy agreed that it was a good idea to change the filter. The transmission was apparently in good nick (done 225,000km)...so, touch wood, it'll keep going for a little while yet. The old pan gasket was hardened and good that its replaced. I am sure the transmission appreciates the attention.

    Todd

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    a well serviced ZF box is hard to beat

    they last very well and only ever really require filter and oil changes

    not lilke the things in the 604's where they decide to chew out reverse most often than not

    but that's another story of which i'll be going through soon i think
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    Where was the ZF distributor? I might go and get some of the genuine stuff, sounds pretty reasonable for $43.

    On the topic of ZF transmissions, my kickdown cable decided to jam up last week so I disconnected it. It had been adjusted so that it would engage at mid throttle to hold onto gears longer, but I never felt a click when it did this so I guess the kickdown must have been only partly coming on. Probably why it eventually stuffed up.

    Anyway after I disconnected it, the transmission "feels" happier but will always change gears at the same speeds, regardless of the throttle position. It goes from 1st to 2nd at 20km/h, then 2nd to 3rd at 35km/h, and it will do this if I'm lightly on the throttle, mid-way, or flooring it.

    I'd like to know if this sounds normal or is there something wrong with the tranny? What do you guys reckon?

    Cheers,
    Richard
    - Richard

    Now: 405 SRI D70 '93
    - 2.0L manual
    Earlier: 505 GTi Executive '85
    - hence "Silver Exec"...
    25 GTX '86
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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    seeing as your kickdown didn't engage untill 1/2 throttle did it react the same before you disconnected it ?

    you may need to check the vaccuum line from the manifold to the modulator on the box for leaks

    the modulator reacts from vaccuum from the engine and changes gear according to the amount of vaccuum there is

    the kickdown from what i can gather is only there to change down under accelerator load which forces the box into a lower gear depending again on speed and how far you plant your foot
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    seeing as your kickdown didn't engage untill 1/2 throttle did it react the same before you disconnected it ?

    you may need to check the vaccuum line from the manifold to the modulator on the box for leaks

    the modulator reacts from vaccuum from the engine and changes gear according to the amount of vaccuum there is

    the kickdown from what i can gather is only there to change down under accelerator load which forces the box into a lower gear depending again on speed and how far you plant your foot
    Before disconnecting the kickdown, it would hold onto gears longer depending on the position of the throttle. But I should explain that when I used to push the pedal right down to the floor, there was also a "notch" - it's hard to explain but it was a bit of resistance that you'd push past and then the box would change down a gear. This is what I think was the actual kickdown at work. I don't quite understand how the box could be made to hold onto gears longer by adjusting the kickdown position, but then still have this "notch", still at the END of the pedal travel, that forced the box to change down a gear.

    Let me know if this doesn't make any sense and I'll try to explain it another way...

    And you reckon I should look for a vacuum line? I don't think my box has a vacuum connection, I've never seen one. Where should it be?

    Thanks for the help.

    Richard
    - Richard

    Now: 405 SRI D70 '93
    - 2.0L manual
    Earlier: 505 GTi Executive '85
    - hence "Silver Exec"...
    25 GTX '86
    - manual conversion

  15. #15
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    there should be a vaccuum line running from the inlet manifold via a rubber hose then normally onto a steel pipe and down to the box

    going to the box there should be the 2 cooling lines
    filler tube
    inhibitor switch wiring
    and the vaccuum line for the modulator
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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    Member blizzardboy's Avatar
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    For Silverexec:

    I got the quote for the 3HP22 filter kit through ZF TRUCK & BUS (S.A.) (www.voltruck.com.au) spare parts counter here in Adelaide. They do trucks and buses but were only too happy to help me out on the 505. I think they quoted me $39+GST.

    Good hunting.

    Chees, Todd

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info. I'll see if I can find these guys here in Melbourne.

    pugrambo, I absolutely can't find this vacuum line. I tried tracing all the vacuum hoses that come off from the throttle housing, and none of them go to the transmission. Where should it be?

    Richard
    - Richard

    Now: 405 SRI D70 '93
    - 2.0L manual
    Earlier: 505 GTi Executive '85
    - hence "Silver Exec"...
    25 GTX '86
    - manual conversion

  18. #18
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    You are correct there is no vacuum modulator on the ZFs, for both 3HP22 and 4FP22, this unit takes throttle position from the cable unlike other autos like the 604 trimatic which uses the cable for kickdown only and a vacuum line for modulator pressure.

    For what its worth you can clean the filters and reuse them but this is fiddly grotty work so I normally replace them, I would not be worried about using a non genuine one either, the important thing is to do it once a year at least.
    OddfireV6
    504 V6 24V, 203

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    Ahhh, so I'm not going insane. What would be involved in fixing it to work properly? I don't really think I can be bothered forking out heaps to get the kickdown fixed, as well as all the leaks the tranny has.

    I'm thinking of driving it as is until I can convert it to a manual - I'm tired of the annoying change-up points and the auto making the car rev at 3900 rpm doing 100km/h on the freeway. Just need to do some saving up first...

    Richard
    - Richard

    Now: 405 SRI D70 '93
    - 2.0L manual
    Earlier: 505 GTi Executive '85
    - hence "Silver Exec"...
    25 GTX '86
    - manual conversion

  20. #20
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    either that or put a 4 speed auto in it

    i think along this route every now and then for the 604 if the missus decides she prefers it as auto over manual

    at least the 4 speed auto has a lock up in 4th so there is very little or no slip
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! OddFireV6's Avatar
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    Having worked on and fitted and removed ZFs can I offer a few points, the ZF4HP22 is unusual in that it is a different length from every other box fitted to Australian delivered 504s,505s an 604s, that is different in overall length, its 115mm longer than every other box so you would have to change the torque tube and prop shaft to convert. Also they are even more expensive than the 3HP22 if they go wrong but they can be reliable when properly maintained. I agree the manual is the best option for lower cost and reliability.

    The problem you are having with the 3HP22 could be any number of things, most likely some miss behaviour in the valve chest, work on these is not for the faint hearted, sounds like it needs expert attention.
    OddfireV6
    504 V6 24V, 203

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    Doesn't sound too good. I've thought about 4spd auto option, does it behave better than the 3spd does?

    I changed the pan gasket yesterday thinking it was the cause of some of the leaks, and while the pan was off, had a play with the cam that the kickdown cable connects to. The cam seems to move quite freely, and only the cable provides the resistance when pulling on it from the engine bay. So now I'm suspicious of the cable. I might get a replacement if I can be bothered.

    It turns out the leak wasn't from the pan gasket, but from where the speedo goes into the tranny. I'll have to check it out this weekend.

    Cheers,
    Richard
    - Richard

    Now: 405 SRI D70 '93
    - 2.0L manual
    Earlier: 505 GTi Executive '85
    - hence "Silver Exec"...
    25 GTX '86
    - manual conversion

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