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Thread: rear discs

  1. #1
    Member pugly's Avatar
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    Default rear discs

    is it really worth while putting discs on the back of my 87 205gti?

    they don't do that much work

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    how much would you pay for the second hand parts to do the conversion?
    I like whipping my 205 around almost as much as I like whipping my RM250 through the air (you don't know your limits untill you have been past them)

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    Dude ask u're self "can i be fuc.t?" and if the answer is yes ask u're self...

    Do i really need disk brakes or am i the product of car company marketing...

    At the end of the day the rear brakes on a 205 don't do anything the rear drums aren't up for. Even if you did have 300BHP the drums would be able to lock the rear wheels if necesary.

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    Member pugly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luca
    Dude ask u're self "can i be fuc.t?" and if the answer is yes ask u're self...

    Do i really need disk brakes or am i the product of car company marketing...

    At the end of the day the rear brakes on a 205 don't do anything the rear drums aren't up for. Even if you did have 300BHP the drums would be able to lock the rear wheels if necesary.
    thats what i thought

    when i had my beautiful 94 205 gti (only 6 months) i cranked down a long long hill at about 160 with a car load of tennie bopers.

    i had bad brake fade, and only just pulled up at the intersection at the bottom of the hill (its bad when the pedal goes to the ground).

    this is the only time i have experienced bad brake fade

    how would i stop this happening again in my new baby 205

    i still fang with a car load of chicks
    I like whipping my 205 around almost as much as I like whipping my RM250 through the air (you don't know your limits untill you have been past them)

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    maybe a slow down on public roads and if you want to fang go to a track day with a car club and take out your frustrations there

    sorry but i don't think fanging around with or without people in the car on public roads is such a good idea

    ok guys back to the topic now

    i have heard guys talk about this before and most of them agree that discs on the rear of a 205 is a waste of time effort and money and you are better off putting the money into upgrading the fronts to EBC/DBA and the like

    there is a thread in this forum about upgrading brakes that the thread starter went to a lot of trouble to put together and it maybe worth your while reading it
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    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    Good point 'rambo i came back 2 this thread to mention a front brake pad upgrade but u beat me 2 it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    maybe a slow down on public roads and if you want to fang go to a track day with a car club and take out your frustrations there

    sorry but i don't think fanging around with or without people in the car on public roads is such a good idea

    ok guys back to the topic now

    i have heard guys talk about this before and most of them agree that discs on the rear of a 205 is a waste of time effort and money and you are better off putting the money into upgrading the fronts to EBC/DBA and the like

    there is a thread in this forum about upgrading brakes that the thread starter went to a lot of trouble to put together and it maybe worth your while reading it
    whats EBC/DBA?
    I like whipping my 205 around almost as much as I like whipping my RM250 through the air (you don't know your limits untill you have been past them)

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    Brand names of companies who make brake pads.

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    Member pugly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luca
    Brand names of companies who make brake pads.
    what brake setup do u run?
    I like whipping my 205 around almost as much as I like whipping my RM250 through the air (you don't know your limits untill you have been past them)

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    Black Diamond equipment.

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    Another negative of rear drums is that they can easily start shuddering/ rumbling under hard stops, and it's much harder to cure than a warped disc. Not that I'm saying it's worth all the work in this case, but it is an issue.

    Cheers

    Stuey

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    Leon (don't know if he visits AF anymore) did a rear drum-to-disc swap in his 205, and from what i recall, he did think it helped out on the track (less fade). How that equated into lap times ...
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  12. #12
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Fade is normally a result of boiling brake fluid, rather than the rotors and pad compound themselves. If you just can't pull up in time, without locking up, then you've got a need for more braking power.

    So if you have been experiencing fade, I'd suggest that you look at what brake fluid you are using DOT 4 or above full synethic, and make sure those brake lines are bled.

    I'd then look into getting some quality front rotors, from someone like DBA (disc brakes australia) and bed them in well (as pugrambo has said, Brad started a thread on this a while ago), and use a quality pad with them. EBC's pads have been a bit suspect of late, and are not a good pad to bed in new rotors with anyway.

    I would then say that look at some ADR certified braided brake lines to improve the braking pressure.

    With around 30% of the braking pressure applied to the rears, I think it's a bit of a waste of time. There's nothing inherently wrong with rear drums, they just don't disperse th heat as well. So in a track situation discs would be best, but on the open road, I doubt they would get that overloaded. I'd recommend fixing the front brakes and going from there.

    Then again, you could slow down on public roads, but that's your call. Better brakes are always a good mod, in my book.

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    There is only 1 reason to have rear discs on a 205. And that's getting your car inspected after a power modification.

    Yes, the Department of Motor Transport insist on decent brakes (funny that - your car can go quicker so needs to still be able to stop quickly).

    The thing they don't understand though is drums aren't always bad at the back considering only 30-40% of the braking is going on back there...

    Upgrading the front discs is, from an engineering point of view, a perfectly ok approach but try telling that to the inspection guys... They don't like drums unless the cars power is un-altered...
    Last edited by 205 GTI16; 22nd March 2004 at 07:34 PM.

  14. #14
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Is that just in SA?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTI124
    Is that just in SA?
    Quite possibly.

    But it's a well known fact over here. They are very stringent in inspections.

    On a different post I mentioned that for my inspection, they spent 5 minutes in my engine bay and 55 minutes solely on my brakes and ball joints...

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=GTI124]Fade is normally a result of boiling brake fluid, rather than the rotors and pad compound themselves. If you just can't pull up in time, without locking up, then you've got a need for more braking power.

    Fade has nothing to do with the fluid boiling and everything to do with the pedal going rock hard and the car not slowing. If you have trouble with lock up you either need better tyres or you have a friction material problem. Leaving aside things like fluid or oil on the linings or pads, of course.
    The disc brakes should give give a more controlled braking effect and a firmer pedal. Incidentally EAI have performance pads for 205 at around $65 a set.

    Graham Wallis

  17. #17
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    I was referring to fade where the pedal goes deep after some hard applications. I always thought this was a reflection on the fluid temperature. A pedal being rock hard is not what I equate to brake fade. I've never experienced that on a car, except when brakes are very cold.

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    I heard that the brake cylinder on a 205 can heat up and get stiff from expansion, which is just as bad as having the pedal go soft on you. I haven't experienced this stiffening of the pedal in any car, but various sources say it does happen to 205's.

    My brakes feel quite firm but they squeal a fair bit, and it does take a hard push to get the brakes to grab nicely, so i may be upgrading my brakes soonish.. probably by getting some decent pads as the rotors are fine.

    Who's EAI and where do i get them pads?!

  19. #19
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    Be fair! If you say 'brake fade' to a novice, he could basically tell you what it is...when the braking power goes away. There's no set reason. Both boiling fluid and overheated pads/discs (or both) can cause it. Obviously the boiling fluid causes gas in the fluid which can be compressed and the brake pressure goes away, but also, the friction between the pads/disc can lower from increased temps. So they can both cause fade.

    Also, you can get 'green fade' from the resins boiling out from the pad surface on new-ish pads that haven't been broken in properly.

    If you get more fade the older your pads are, chances are it's from boiling the fluid as the friction material can insulate the caliper to some extent.

    Stuey

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