THEORY..electric turbo?
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! mmm...CORNERS's Avatar
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    Default THEORY..electric turbo?

    This is purely a thought, but, suppose you could find a DC motor that could spin at, say 10,000 rpm running on 12v power, does anyone think it would be possible to develop a forced induction system based around an electric driven impeller to force air into the motor ala turbo? My thought is that by having a compressor driven by voltage you can keep a nice clean exhaust flow, have a variable amount of boost at any RPM, and keep mechanical drag to a minimum (like superchargers) I would imagine that a small compressor, similar to a small jet engine (a series of impeller blades to compress, rather than on big set of blades) just behind the air filter. There possibly would still be some power issues, may need a beefed up battery/alternator set up to supple reasonable amps/volts (im not sure how this stuff works, can you tell!) With no exhaust restrictions and no drag on the engine boost levels would not have to be too high, just give the engine a constant and controllable airflow at a bit over atmospheric pressure. Also a nice novelty feature may be a device like a volume knob on your dash to controll boost! I may be completly wrong in my thinking, thats cool, but if anyone would like to add to this feel free. Oh and just incase this would work 2004, by Tristan Read.

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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmm...CORNERS
    This is purely a thought, but, suppose you could find a DC motor that could spin at, say 10,000 rpm running on 12v power, does anyone think it would be possible to develop a forced induction system based around an electric driven impeller to force air into the motor ala turbo? My thought is that by having a compressor driven by voltage you can keep a nice clean exhaust flow, have a variable amount of boost at any RPM, and keep mechanical drag to a minimum (like superchargers) I would imagine that a small compressor, similar to a small jet engine (a series of impeller blades to compress, rather than on big set of blades) just behind the air filter. There possibly would still be some power issues, may need a beefed up battery/alternator set up to supple reasonable amps/volts (im not sure how this stuff works, can you tell!) With no exhaust restrictions and no drag on the engine boost levels would not have to be too high, just give the engine a constant and controllable airflow at a bit over atmospheric pressure. Also a nice novelty feature may be a device like a volume knob on your dash to controll boost! I may be completly wrong in my thinking, thats cool, but if anyone would like to add to this feel free. Oh and just incase this would work 2004, by Tristan Read.
    Have you seen the 90's Aussie movie "metal skin" (i think). A guy has an eletric supercharger on his old Valiant wagon.

    I think the movie was written (or directed) by the same guy as Romper Stomper.

    Sorry to burst your bubble...

  3. #3
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    lol... thought exactly the same thing...!
    i said it in another forum a while back... but i had a modification!

    Sense the spark pulses & then do a Frequency to voltage conversion, so that the fan's rpm increases linearly with the engine.

    They comercially exist & do bugger all apparently!

    Wouldnt mind doing some tests this though...
    If an air filter gives a supposed increase of 3kW, then i'm sure having a -ve pressuse would have some impact...

    Mite hook up with Foxman & run some tests!

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    I suspect it wouldn't be very efficient to generate the electricity to power the 'electrocharger'

    Why not just have a supercharger with a clutch and CVT Vary the boost to your heart's content, even turn it off, no lag. Who cares about the poor old CVT belt

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
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    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    why would you need to synch up the rpms? Having a higher pressure area would help.. wouldnt it?

    As a ball park figures.
    2000cc motor flows about 180CFM at 6000rpm
    compressed the air @5 PSI boost adds another 50CFM at 6000rpm

    The question is, can the electric fan compress air?
    If it cannot whats the point of wasting 10~20Amps that the alternator has to make up for.
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  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! mmm...CORNERS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekkie
    why would you need to synch up the rpms? Having a higher pressure area would help.. wouldnt it?

    As a ball park figures.
    2000cc motor flows about 180CFM at 6000rpm
    compressed the air @5 PSI boost adds another 50CFM at 6000rpm

    The question is, can the electric fan compress air?
    If it cannot whats the point of wasting 10~20Amps that the alternator has to make up for.
    Ahh, so it appears there really are no original ideas anymore! But thats why i posted the thought here, I fugured i would get some actual facts and figures. Thanks tekkie....but it still could work, probably just need some ultra efficient magnets in the motor driving the fan, something that draws 5 amps and spins @ 10,000 rpm. I should just buy some old engine and do some experiments....sorry in advance to anyone in the epping area if i take out the power grid

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    Fellow Frogger! winnie's Avatar
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    Short answer is yes you can. Longer (but not complete0 answer is it would be very similar to belt driven centripetal superchargers. What you gain in having a nice 'clean' exhaust, you lose in having to power the charger -greater alternator lose in this case. Turbos take advantage of exhaust energy that is otherwise 'wasted'. Unfortunately the laws of thermodynamics aren't very flexible. 'Pumping' a given volume of air at a given pressure will cost you the same energy, doesn't matter where you get it from, the crank, the alternator, a turbine in the exhaust, you don't get something for nothing. You may have lower loses with electric drive rather than mechanical, and there could be some interesting gains in being able to operate the charger in it's sweet spot for longer. There could also be a weight penalty, electric motors tend to be heavy.

    Pug307- A CVT centripetal charger with with an air/water (air/liquid co2 for hill climbs and sprints) after cooler has been kicking around in the back of mind for a while. Haven't found one the right size or ratio variation yet (CVT that is), let me know if you know something

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    the electric superchargers were tried by Hot4's about 2 years ago...

    They do bugger all,
    because of the power drain they need, they need a super big battery
    and the heat soak created by the motor is rediculous

    ... whats wrong with a normal supercharger!?
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    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
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    oh, i remember now, you can only turn it on for 10 seconds, after that it becomes too hot....

    10 seconds... of about 3psi... that you would detonate your engine with...

    I dont even know why people would consider it

    How are you going to raise the amount of fuel injected when you turn on the 'charger so you dont lean out the mixtures?

    .... want instant gratification for **** all money that wont lean your engine, just go get a wet NOS kit...
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

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    Yeah gotta go with Winnie on the Thermodynamics thing...

    But its odd that Turbo's & Superchargers work, but as you said its more efficient with electric etc...

    I'd be using a really quality RC Car motor, heavy but they're one of the most efficient around!


    The other idea i have...
    Have a system of Peltiers, one side on the bonnet or cut into the bonnet for the cool air flowing over the car, then on the inside have a system where the radiator juice passes over, the difference in temp would then create a voltage on the peltiers & u could hook that up to an electric motor to give some extra drive power!

    So by cooling your radiator you can produce some electricity!

    weight problems with electric stuff i know, but hey, they make electric cars dont they???

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! winnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nate
    Yeah gotta go with Winnie on the Thermodynamics thing...

    But its odd that Turbo's & Superchargers work, but as you said its more efficient with electric etc...

    I'd be using a really quality RC Car motor, heavy but they're one of the most efficient around!


    The other idea i have...
    Have a system of Peltiers, one side on the bonnet or cut into the bonnet for the cool air flowing over the car, then on the inside have a system where the radiator juice passes over, the difference in temp would then create a voltage on the peltiers & u could hook that up to an electric motor to give some extra drive power!

    So by cooling your radiator you can produce some electricity!

    weight problems with electric stuff i know, but hey, they make electric cars dont they???

    The kid that won 'the most outstanding student' award in my grad class (works for ford now i think, in their engine division -crying shame) did his 4th year project on recovering exhaust heat energy, unfortunately i didn't pay nearly enough attention.

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