PRV V6: fuel economy
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  1. #1
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    Default PRV V6: fuel economy

    Just wondering, what sort of fuel economy does the V6 deliver? I've often considered converting my car to V6 power... but didn't think about it for too long because (a) I really like the XN engine and (b) I don't like the thought of the V6 chewing juice.

    Pugrambo, you've mentioned getting 200hp out of your latest V6... what do you expect the fuel economy to be like? I imagine it would be terribly thirsty.

    On the other hand, I was told by the owner of an injected V6 five-speed 504 that he could get 32mpg on a trip. I said "and what about around town?" He said "depends how you drive it..."

    John

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  2. #2
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    John

    when i finish building it i am hoping for 200hp

    i have had a carb V6 in a 604 that returned on a trip 30-32mpg without really pussyfooting it

    the motor i am building will have injection on it and i'll be doing away with the carb setup altogether

    for a carb you have to get the right manifold to get the engine the best it can with a single carb

    my mothers ex 604 used to return 29mpg doing 40km round trips and that was in the standard twin solex crap they came with. the benefit she had with that car was it was brand new even when she sold it 11 years later it still only had 18k on it

    also with the engine i'm building i'll be using a water/methanol injection setup as well for when the engine is loaded up (ie up hills)

    they are a very torquey motor and they also rev very well and sound like a V8 with 2 pots cut off

    it all comes down to how it is set up

    my advice if sticking with a carb is get the low comp inlet manifold with a 38dgas weber otherwise go the injected route

    now then the last one of these i built is still sitting on a floor but owen willumien drove the car before he pulled the engine out of it so he can tell you how it went as it will be an unbiased opinion but even with that engine i still got around 28mpg on a trip with itand that was with a normal inlet manifold and 40mm weber from memory so with injection it would have been even better

    near standard carburation though with slight cams will gain you better economy most of the time as well

    to understand the PRV V6 you need to pull one down and look at it and drive one that has been modded to really get an idea on what they are and what they can be

    don't go on what they are like in a tired 604 as they won't impress you in the slightest

    i am sure Robert Cherry knows a few different grinds for the cams and knows where they can be done as well
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  3. #3
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    I remember the Laguna V6's Aussie city fuel consumption specs, just below 15l/100km on the city cycle Actually come to think of it, I don't recall any French car downunder since that has managed to even come close to such figures

    Beat all the Commodores and Falcons of its day. Aside from that, I thought it was a nice package for its time.

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  4. #4
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    Icon14

    ok, not quite the info you might be looking for... maybe

    In the US I currently drive a Dodge Intrepid V6 that has a 3.3L engine, after an engine swap (bought a citroen CX, on it's way now so I can't wait to be the one asking questions ) I get about 20 mpg driving like a nut around town, including a good deal of "acceleration contests" and about 35 mpg highway. Also, the engine puts out about 225 HP and 215 ft-lbs of torque, so it is by no means a weak engine.

    /me thinks his Cit. will have to undergo some "upgrades" to make it comparable to his current car, but it should be up to the task, as it is a TON (litterally, about 2k lbs) lighter.

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! jarrods's Avatar
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    Pugrambo,

    just wondering what injection system you are using on you latest project. Is it the volvo twin plenum K-jetronic? I would say rob is very knowledgable on cams for the PRV V6 but I think even he has had problems getting cam grinders to get their heads around them. Have you increased the compression ratio at all? Are there any other tips or tricks you wish to share?

    thanks

    Jarrod

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    I've seen 32mpg in my R25 V6 K-Series injection 2664cc (Z7V / 3 speed auto) with 3 adults and luggage on a trip to Melbourne

    I once got 34mpg on another trip, but slightly more optimal conditions for travel

    I once managed to travel from Bell St, Coburg to Glen Osmond, Adelaide without refuelling in my parents 95 V6 Laguna (3.0l, 1 driver but full of Ikea furniture!) which really impressed me as it has 400cc more capacity than my 25, plus a smaller fuel tank (65l vs. 75l for R25) - I've always chickened out in the R25 when trying a similar stunt, the freeway from Murray Bridge chews up quite a bit of fuel. Trip computer was reading somewhere in the low 8l/100km

    I once reset the trip meter in the R25 during the regular Friday night traffic jam in Melbourne City and I think it was telling me I was getting something like 8mpg until I was actually able to get moving again. From memory, around Melbourne it used to get 20 to 25mpg
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  7. #7
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jarrods
    Pugrambo,

    just wondering what injection system you are using on you latest project. Is it the volvo twin plenum K-jetronic? I would say rob is very knowledgable on cams for the PRV V6 but I think even he has had problems getting cam grinders to get their heads around them. Have you increased the compression ratio at all? Are there any other tips or tricks you wish to share?

    thanks

    Jarrod

    yes i will be running the twin plenum injection system but i also have a couple of other ideas utilising this setup

    the last pair of cams i had ground are still sitting in the engine i mentioned for which i would really like to get the specs from to use again

    the comp will be raised a little plus i am going to be using a set of 2849 pistons and may even look at re-shapping the chambers

    i am hoping to get up to around 9.5:1 CR as opposed to the 8.65:1 they currently run

    i will be slightly re-shapping the inlet and exhaust ports and either going to run extractors on the car or use the exhaust manifolds from a 605 or XM citroen

    there will also be methanol/water injection on the engine as well

    there is a bloke that has used a volvo injection setup and converted it to electronic injection

    the valves will be 3 angle cut and the valve guides will also be shortened

    the reason the cams are hard to grind is that they run opposite each other when you think about it

    as the project moves on i'll post any advances and backward steps i take
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! jarrods's Avatar
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    Thanks for the Handy info Pugrambo.

    Could you explain the use of water injection. I have heard of this being used in conjunction with forced induction but not in a normally aspirated engine. Does it work in the same way? Does this increase horsepower, reduce detonation or both.

    Thanks

    Jarrod

  9. #9
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jarrods
    Thanks for the Handy info Pugrambo.

    Could you explain the use of water injection. I have heard of this being used in conjunction with forced induction but not in a normally aspirated engine. Does it work in the same way? Does this increase horsepower, reduce detonation or both.

    Thanks

    Jarrod

    i'm going to run it with a vaccuum switch so it only cuts in over 1/2 throttle so if you are climbing hills or just have your foot down it starts up

    i want it as it will provide a little more power when needed, cooler running when needed and of course prevent (or hoping to) pinging if it is going to happen in such situations

    there are a few sites around with info on it and they are used in both forced and normally aspirated engines with good results

    we actually used to run a similar setup years ago on a toyota but for WOT and it was pure methanol injection using a water injection kit and it went pretty damn well when the methanol kicked in
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
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    I'm wary of water injection being bad for the engine, or I would be using it. I must experiment one day on an engine that doesn't cost a mint to rebuild if I blow it up, there are a lot of tuning ideas I want to test out one way or another. Maybe an old Ford six, theyre pretty tough and cheap to fix!
    Anyone heard about water injection damaging engines, or otherwise?
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  11. #11
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pugnut403
    I'm wary of water injection being bad for the engine, or I would be using it. I must experiment one day on an engine that doesn't cost a mint to rebuild if I blow it up, there are a lot of tuning ideas I want to test out one way or another. Maybe an old Ford six, theyre pretty tough and cheap to fix!
    Anyone heard about water injection damaging engines, or otherwise?
    people have been using it for quite a long time and as the water/methanol is a fine spray and not drowning the engine it really doesn't cause any harm

    the water actually slows down the burn rate so that the flame front pushes the piston most of the way down instead of one great bang and by adding methanol i'd guess you are just creating a higher octane and of course more power from the methanol

    plus methanol makes the car run a bit cooler as well hence the reason i would only have it when needed and not all the time

    there was a thread a while ago on this subject and i just happen to have the link for it here
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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