205 Mi16 conversion
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Icon5 205 Mi16 conversion

    im interested in the Mi16 conversion for a 1990 205 gti, and am wondering if anyone who has done it can tell me how much i cost them and how much work is actually involved. are the engine mounts the same for both engines? what sort of power increase would it gain from a stock Mi16 engine and would the gti gearbox be able to take it?

    any help appreciated.



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  2. #2
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Take a look at the following thread. It talks in great length about Neil's recent efforts to build his.

    Neil's 205gti to 205/Mi16 adventure begins
    B to the R to the A from the D
    1994 MX5 Clubman...are you sure it's not French?

  3. #3
    Tadpole
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    Also have a look at www.205gti.com and www.205gtidrivers.com.
    Quite a lot of info there for you...

    I would stick to the mi16 box. I had a 8v box on my gti6 engine but the 16v one suits the engine better....
    Engine mounts are the same.

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Hi there,

    Ok i am actually about half way between one. (until i crashed my car so dont know if ill continue)
    A decent engine will cost you around 2500>
    The best thing in the way of gear boxes is to use the 405 diff and a BE3 gearbox. Short gears but awsome takeoff. Top speed will be about 195 (i think) But you will get there heaps quick. Power of a decent Aussie MI16 is going to be about 145>150 ish Hp. So considering that our aussie 8v motors (from what i gather) only have about 120ish (dont quote me on this) because of lower compression and slightly smaller cam you will be gettting about 25 ISH hp from the upgrade. Also the motor is easly worked compared with the 8v motor. (not saying the 8v is not hard to tune) Enging mounts are the same but the inlet manifold will hit the radaitor and the exhaust will hit the firewall. You can get someone to make you up the shorter inlet manifold and get a plate to go inbetween the exhaust manifold and the engine to angle the exhause down maore and not hit. Also you have to do the wiring which is a rear bastard(personaly speaking)
    If you are interested i may have everything your after for the conversion

    Cheers Cam
    (some of this info may be wrong but this is what i have been told from a very very reliable source)

  5. #5
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i still think it's a lot of stuffing around for approx 25hp gain

    fine if you have an engine from a dead 405 but one day there maybe a 405 that would like a new heart in it and there won't be any around as they will all be in 205's
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  6. #6
    Tadpole
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    The mi16 should have 160hp or 148hp on the cat model.
    8v lumps promise 130/122 but usually dont deliver.

    You can also go for the more modern aproach and mount an 306 engine.
    s16 (155hp) of gti6 (167hp) will fit. I chose the gti6 one... love it :-)


    The mi16 will also fit without changing the inlet or outlet:
    you can drop the radiator by adjusting its housing and you can bang the firewall in to make room for the manifold.

  7. #7
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    1) Do NOT shorten the inlet manifold - there is alot of physics going on inside that thing and shortening ruins all of the engineers hard work in designing its length
    2) Bashing the firewall is for backyarders - no credit to them
    3) Inserting a wedge between the head and manifold isn't great as (a) you need 2 gaskets and risk leaks (b) you need angled collets to allow the straight stud from the head to pass through a angled manifold flange.

    I angled my radiator forwards by removing 1 inch all round at the top of fan housing plastic and losing air conditioning condensor. I have taken detailed photos of how to do the fan shroud - having written 2 off myself in the process by over cutting and grinding with a Dremel Tool

    I had my 8 pipes from the manifold cut *nearly* all of the way through *from underneath* by a professional. I then had them oxy-torch heated (out of the car) and bent downwards (in the car) enough to clear the firewall and then MIG welded up (out of the car). Looks very professional and it is.

    Wedges - not really a good idea...
    Last edited by 205 GTI16; 17th March 2004 at 09:07 PM.

  8. #8
    Tadpole
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    Tampering with the inlet indeed changes the character of your engine. You will shift your torque....

    Cant agree with you on the backyarders, but thats personal. For me it menat be able to use the manifold without any tinkering. That would increase breakage risk in my opinion. Depends on what manifold you have i guess, normal of spaghetti.

  9. #9
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    Normal or spaghetti?

    What do you mean jochem?

    Citroen BX 16V and Peugeot 405 Mi16 exhaust manifolds are identical. The 8 pipe, stainless steel exhaust manifold must be used in the conversion.

    Only the 309 GTI16 (not sold in Australia) came with a manifold that would (probably) fit without modification. After all, a 309 is very similar to a 205 - funny that.
    Last edited by 205 GTI16; 18th March 2004 at 12:48 AM.

  10. #10
    Tadpole
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    Yeah the 30916v one.
    Most people use that in the 205 conversion here in the nehterlands. Fits fine! They are for sale around 350 euro's. Maybe time for some export?

    I have the 306gti6 engine in my 205, comes with spaghetti manifold and fits fine too.

    Here is my conversion story (sorry i havent got an english version): http://www.205gti.com/storyjochem_rfsNL.htm

  11. #11
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    I was considering ordering a 309 GTI16 manifold especially for my conversion I did myself but decided it 1) looks ridiculous (spaghetti as you put it) and 2) might clash with our (already too close for comfort) RHD brake servo and master cylinder.

    Are you LHD in Nederlands?

  12. #12
    Tadpole
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    Yes, LHD over here...

    It might look ridiculous... but it brings way better performance!
    Not 100% sure, but it shouldnt clash with your brake servo.

  13. #13
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    Why would it bring way better performance?

    Does the 309 GTI16 manifold only have 4 pipes compared with the Mi16/BX16V 8 pipes?

    1 pipe per exhaust valve (i.e. 8 pipes in total) is pretty wild but you'd think 1 pipe per 2 exhaust valves (i.e 4 pipes in total) would do just the same???

  14. #14
    Tadpole
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    The spaghetti handles the exhaust flow way better.
    The 4 pipes are near even in length. The manifold you use has uneven smaller pipes (iirc). This brings better torque.

    There are also aftermarket 4-2-1 manifolds. I think Devil sell them.
    They also give your engine a better torque.

    I'm no technical hotshot, but thsi is what ive heard.

  15. #15
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jochem
    The spaghetti handles the exhaust flow way better.
    The 4 pipes are near even in length. The manifold you use has uneven smaller pipes (iirc). This brings better torque.

    There are also aftermarket 4-2-1 manifolds. I think Devil sell them.
    They also give your engine a better torque.

    I'm no technical hotshot, but thsi is what ive heard.

    i have a pic here that i got but from where now i have no idea
    Attached Images Attached Images
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  16. #16
    Tadpole
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    Attached is a 4-2-1 manifold designed for the 205 mi16...

    sold bij www.uitlaten.com in the Netherlands.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 205 Mi16 conversion-die-wil-ik-.jpg  

  17. #17
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    aftermarket hype boys...

    equal length often doesn't do anything. in engineering theory yes, in reality - not really.

    IN FACT, i've read in numerous articles from exhaust builders and engineering exhaust theory from university, that you *can* see absolutely no performance benefit from equal length pipes whatsoever on many engines and this has been backed up with dyno plots. and not chassis dyno plots (at the wheels) but engine dyno plots (at crankshaft).

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    That is all great but a lot of the time it is the on-road "feel" that makes all the difference. The dyno may tell you it isn't making power but the on-road situation is that it is quicker than another engine with the same hp. I know of one car that went 0.5sec faster over the quarter after the power was reduced about 10hp at the wheels. On the road it even felt quicker in any gear.

    Dynos are great for tuning but thats about it. Then you need to drive the car to see where the difference is.

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    Did i just hear a wise voice??

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYT205
    That is all great but a lot of the time it is the on-road "feel" that makes all the difference. The dyno may tell you it isn't making power but the on-road situation is that it is quicker than another engine with the same hp. I know of one car that went 0.5sec faster over the quarter after the power was reduced about 10hp at the wheels. On the road it even felt quicker in any gear.

    Dynos are great for tuning but thats about it. Then you need to drive the car to see where the difference is.
    all true.

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