Large oil leak out 504 oil breather
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Thread: Large oil leak out 504 oil breather

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! callipygous's Avatar
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    Default Large oil leak out 504 oil breather

    Hi all,

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    I've attempted to circumvent the oil vapour return from the oil breather which usually returns to the inlet manifold, creating a negative pressure to the sump. Unfortunately, the small air filter that I placed on the oil breather on my 504 now spews out oil. I was under the impression that it was just vapour and the gauze would see it return back to the sump.

    I've considered the possibility that I'd overfilled the sump and that would be a possible reason for the excessive oil coming out. However, having taken oil out, the problem still remains.

    What should I do? I don't particularly want all this oil ending up in my carbs either...
    Peugeot 504 Intercooled T04 Turbo, Four Mikuni R1 carburettors, external waste gate, Microsquirt ignition, 5 speed.

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    Fellow Frogger! luthier's Avatar
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    I got some stuff once from Detroit Diesel which they use in the oil filler cap on their big diesel trucks .[cost less than $10]. It's woven stainless wire that forms a dense filter and will not break down with heat and oil. I got it because my diesel 504 used to spew a fair bit out the breather/filler cap but have since used the last of it in my petrol 504 filler canister where someone had put some old shrunken and useless scourer. I don't believe in those scourers as they do break down under heat and are likely to deposit abrasive crap into your engine.

    However I have to tell you that worn rings can also cause excessive oil to be thrown from breathers due to blowby.

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! callipygous's Avatar
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    Thanks, I'll check out the mesh. I do not think that it is rings as the car doesn't blow smoke and compression tested very good.

    EDIT: The Detroit Diesel mesh looks very similar to the Peugeot mesh that is in there? Is it much finer?
    Last edited by callipygous; 23rd February 2013 at 12:02 AM.
    Peugeot 504 Intercooled T04 Turbo, Four Mikuni R1 carburettors, external waste gate, Microsquirt ignition, 5 speed.

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    I don't believe in those scourers as they do break down under heat and are likely to deposit abrasive crap into your engine.
    I'd like to see that with my own eyes.
    The SS scourers in my cars filter are like new and certainly not shedding any abrasive crap.

    Jo

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    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Callipygous,
    Is your 504 using the engine as described in your post, turbo etc?
    If so the inlet manifold would be pressurised, the normal breather arrangements on the 504 wouldn't come into play ?
    The breather would be best vented to atmosphere. You didn't hear this from me.

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! luthier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    I'd like to see that with my own eyes.
    The SS scourers in my cars filter are like new and certainly not shedding any abrasive crap.

    Jo
    I tried a scourer when I had my diesel 504's and I caught one just as it started to fall apart. I saw it with my own eyes.

    Callipygous, the Detroit stuff is stronger than what came out of my current 504 filler cap and would likely last forever in heat and oil. Nothing seems to affect it save for when I used some as a mesh under some bonsai plants and after a couple of years it appeared to rust a bit under dirt as some stainless can do.

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    Fellow Frogger! callipygous's Avatar
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    Turbo engine, yes. It just drips out the breather hose at idle Maybe I'm using too light of an oil? 5W50 Mobil 1? Where can I pick up some of this Detroit stuff?
    Last edited by callipygous; 24th February 2013 at 06:43 PM.
    Peugeot 504 Intercooled T04 Turbo, Four Mikuni R1 carburettors, external waste gate, Microsquirt ignition, 5 speed.

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    Try 20W50 and put an oil catch can on the breather like we used to do when racing- mine was a 2 litre plastic oil bottle with the hose from the oil filler into it. If you wanted to be legal[ish] put anothe hose from here back to th usual inlet point. Neil

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    There should be a gauze filter, in the the cavity, between the inner and outer walls of the crankcase breather tube, take tube off and soak in a solvent bath overnight and thoroughly clean out after soaking. ALSO take off the valve cover and soak that in solvent bath overnight also, as it has a section that is double skinned, where the 'hidden' breather is and this becomes clogged with carbon deposits and causes a back pressure, which results in oil mist leaking out of oil filler cap.

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    Fellow Frogger! callipygous's Avatar
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    Yes, there are two gauze filters. One in the filler itself and one inside the black breather thing. They're already very clean. I didn't know about the breather in the valve cover, but it's not so easy to get off with the turbocharger in the way, unfortunately. It requires the turbo be removed
    Peugeot 504 Intercooled T04 Turbo, Four Mikuni R1 carburettors, external waste gate, Microsquirt ignition, 5 speed.

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    Turbo should be down on the side of engine, attached to the exhaust manifold?

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    Fellow Frogger! callipygous's Avatar
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    It sits above the rocker cover. Got to keep the turbo up high for the oil drainage.
    Peugeot 504 Intercooled T04 Turbo, Four Mikuni R1 carburettors, external waste gate, Microsquirt ignition, 5 speed.

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    Fellow Frogger! callipygous's Avatar
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    Ok so, a few years on, but I thought it would be good fun to resurrect this old thread.

    I fixed the oil spewing out the breather by relocating the turbo oil drain to the sump - previously it was routed back to the oil filler neck. Presumably the cause of the oil overflowing was the returned oil hindering the engine breathing properly, and even bubbling up. Haven't had the problem since.

    However, the engine is a sieve! Every time I think I have found an oil leak and fixed it, I find oil leaking from somewhere else. The gauze(s) are very clean and the usual suspect, the timing case, is dry as a bone. Don't know where it is coming from, but it's not the timing case. The sump pan gasket has been replaced and so has the sump drain plug gasket.

    Is there anything else (besides a blocked gauze) that could cause these engines to leak? Fix one and another appears symptoms.

    I'm currently considering reconditioning and SLi motor and putting that in it, if I can ever find one.
    Peugeot 504 Intercooled T04 Turbo, Four Mikuni R1 carburettors, external waste gate, Microsquirt ignition, 5 speed.

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    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    Just keep degreasing it and looking for leaks. I've always had the best luck at night, looking by torchlight. Much better than at daytime.

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    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Not the rocker cover bolt holes? Are both the rubber (tube) seals fitted to the cover fixing bolts between the head and the underside of the cover?
    Last edited by BIGRR; 2nd November 2017 at 11:27 PM.
    Present fleet:-
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    Renault 72' 16TS from new
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    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


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    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beano View Post
    Just keep degreasing it and looking for leaks. I've always had the best luck at night, looking by torchlight. Much better than at daytime.
    Yes, the only way I've ever been able to effectively track down the source of oil leaks is to first thoroughly clean the engine with degreaser and various brushes followed by a good rinse from the garden hose. And I do mean thoroughly. Repeat process as necessary. After his, it should be fairly obvious where its leaking.

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! callipygous's Avatar
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    Nah, not the rocker cover bolt holes, these aren't leaking. It's weeping slowly around the rocker cover, but this doesn't seem to be the major source of oil.

    I shall give it a good clean and see from there.
    Peugeot 504 Intercooled T04 Turbo, Four Mikuni R1 carburettors, external waste gate, Microsquirt ignition, 5 speed.

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Head gasket? Pressurised oil feed to the rocker arms? Just a thought. I've been there with Renault engines.
    JohnW

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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Head gasket? Pressurised oil feed to the rocker arms? Just a thought. I've been there with Renault engines.
    Yes I have had that problem once on an old R12, my fix was to torque the head bolts another 5 lb ft. (it worked)
    Regards Col

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  20. #20
    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by callipygous View Post
    Nah, not the rocker cover bolt holes, these aren't leaking. It's weeping slowly around the rocker cover, but this doesn't seem to be the major source of oil.

    I shall give it a good clean and see from there.
    I wouldn't necessarily discount the rocker cover bolt holes being the source of the leaky rocker cover. Those inner rubber tube thingos are supposed to stop oil seeping up the bolt shaft and into the outer shell section that houses the bolts. That could well be the source of the oil leak.
    BIGRR likes this.

  21. #21
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    Yes I have had that problem once on an old R12, my fix was to torque the head bolts another 5 lb ft. (it worked)


    Mine was R12 too, but we changed the gasket. Didn't think of your solution....
    JohnW

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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post


    Mine was R12 too, but we changed the gasket. Didn't think of your solution....
    I thought about changing the gasket, but decided to give the extra torque a try first as it was easier and cheaper.

    Mine was after a fresh rebuild too.
    Regards Col

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  23. #23
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Never ever had my rocker cover leak. Though once one of the bolt rubber seal/tubes fell of during replacing the cover.
    Leaked everybloodywhere, (down the side of the block, onto the exhaust, along the block to the back and down onto the bell housing)and from where Peter Chisholm explained.

    Good Luck
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


  24. #24
    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Chisholm View Post
    I wouldn't necessarily discount the rocker cover bolt holes being the source of the leaky rocker cover. Those inner rubber tube thingos are supposed to stop oil seeping up the bolt shaft and into the outer shell section that houses the bolts. That could well be the source of the oil leak.
    Peter is right, Callipygous. On top of the rocker cover there is another section which houses the bolts.
    You will never see oil leak out of the bolt holes at the top. It leaks into the housing (which is only spot-welded on to the rocker cover), then out onto the very bottom of the rocker cover, and then ....as it is a slant engine....onto the exhaust manifold, where it burns, smokes and stinks ...

    504s have beeen described as having a "dirty engine". But you can minimise the leaks.
    Last edited by Beano; 4th November 2017 at 01:25 PM.

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    compression may be good at cranking speed but ,as engine speed increases higher pressure may be pressurizing the sump because of blow by[ compression passing rings ] ,can you remove the dipstick ,put your thumb over the tube and increase revs ,see how much pressure is coming out of the dip stick tube ,especially after the turbo nas kicked in .pugs

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