The OZRS.com Sydney Dyno-Day 2006
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! ClioF1's Avatar
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    Default The OZRS.com Sydney Dyno-Day 2006

    The OZRS.com Sydney Dyno-Day 2006

    8am Saturday 21st January at C&V Performance Caringbah

    Results

    1. polo - 100.8 kW ( stock 182, Optimax 98 )



    2. Rambovic - 99 kW ( stock 182, Optimax 100 )



    3. EJ - 98.8 kW ( 172 Phase 2 w/ Cat Back Exhaust, Vortex 98 )
    ** The limiter hit right at peak power due to insufficient warming up, it might have had a little bit more in it.



    4. Dr Pug - 98.6 kW ( GTi 180 w/ Piper X Panel, Optimax 98 )



    5. ClioF1 - 98 kW ( 182 w/ K&N Panel, Vortex 98 )



    6. pmacleod - 97.9 kW ( 182 w/ K&N Apollo, Optimax 100 )



    7. D82 - 96.7 kW ( stock 172 Phase 2, fuel? )



    8. moosey - 94.5 kW ( stock 172 Phase 1, vortex 98 )




    Other cars
    1. D82's mate - 111kW (3.0 Magna w/ K&N Pod Filter)
    2. Black04RSC's MX5 - 95.8 kW (1.6 MX5 w/ turbo kit)


    7/30-32 Endeavour Rd Caringbah NSW 2229

    It would be great to see some more froggies on the dyno, so join a few Renaults and bring your car down on the day for a couple of power runs.

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    The invite is open to any AF member, so even if you don't have a froggy come down anyway and see what your car makes on the rollers! It should be a great day.

    The cost is $50 per car for 2 power runs including an Air to Fuel Ratio (AFR) graph.

    People confirmed

    - ClioF1 (182)
    - Moosey (172 - Phase 1)
    - D82 (172)
    - red_Rocket_172 (172 w/ filter and exhaust)
    - EJ (172 w/ exhaust)
    - rambovic (182)
    - pmacleod (182)
    - Vukie (172)

    Maybes

    - Reepa (172)
    - Black04RSC (172)
    - Nate (5 turbo thing with the engine in the backseat)

    Please be there at 8am ready to go if you are putting your car on the rollers!

    If all goes to plan we should wrap up around 1pm so we can head off and have lunch somewhere for those interested. A quick Nasho run might even be on the cards because it is only down the road.

    Just remember this isn't a high horsepower showdown, just a fun day to see what our cars put out.

    If you have any questions please ask or PM me.

    Anthony
    Last edited by ClioF1; 1st February 2006 at 07:37 PM.
    2005 RENAULTsport Clio 182 Cup F1


  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! ClioF1's Avatar
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    Default

    No interest at all?

    Aren't there any Megane 225 owners wanting to come down and show up the Clios on the dyno?
    2005 RENAULTsport Clio 182 Cup F1


  3. #3
    Member minigolf's Avatar
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    I'm interested in the results anyway Anthony, so post up the results.
    We can swap charts.

    Get some video too.


    Cheers Liam

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    I'd have some interest if you didnt insult me with calling my Car a GT Turbo...
    so bitterly dissapointed...

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! ClioF1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nate
    I'd have some interest if you didnt insult me with calling my Car a GT Turbo...
    so bitterly dissapointed...
    Haha now you've highlighted my true Renault/Alpine N00b status

    2005 RENAULTsport Clio 182 Cup F1


  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! ClioF1's Avatar
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    Results are now in the original post.

    Thanks to Dr Pug for being the lone AF representative (Apart from the OZRS crew that frequent both sites of course )

    If you could let me know what fuel you used mate I'll stick that in as well.

    When I can get access to a scanner, I'll post up the RSC 182 and GTi 180 dyno sheets.
    Last edited by ClioF1; 21st January 2006 at 05:41 PM.
    2005 RENAULTsport Clio 182 Cup F1


  7. #7
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Thanks for organising the day. I would dearly loved to have been there, however I had to work. I couldn't attend that and the AF BBQ as well

    I'm quite disappointed, I'd have loved to have seen how mine went with boring old Vortex Gold (95 RON). It would have been a fascinating experiment.
    Regards,

    Simon

    2018 308 GTi 2011 DS3 DSport
    ----
    2014 208 GTi 2007 207 GTi 2004 206 GTi180 2000 206 GTi 1995 306 XT

    www.peugeotclub.asn.au

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! Dr_Pug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClioF1
    Results are now in the original post.

    Thanks to Dr Pug for being the lone AF representative (Apart from the OZRS crew that frequent both sites of course )

    If you could let me know what fuel you used mate I'll stick that in as well.

    When I can get access to a scanner, I'll post up the RSC 182 and GTi 180 dyno sheets.
    Optimax 98 rom
    04' GTi 180

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
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    Nice! It's interesting to see that the filter mods don't really make any difference at all. Though the cat back exhaust on the 172 makes quite a big difference over the std 172, bringing output up to 182 level (though I'm guessing it would have been a lot louder than the 182). Will be great to see the graphs posted when you get the chance.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! Dr_Pug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U Turn
    Nice! It's interesting to see that the filter mods don't really make any difference at all. Though the cat back exhaust on the 172 makes quite a big difference over the std 172, bringing output up to 182 level (though I'm guessing it would have been a lot louder than the 182). Will be great to see the graphs posted when you get the chance.
    I wouldnt say filter mods didnt make really any difference at all. As there are a few other variables.

    The apollo that was used, didnt have factory 182 hose piping but thin narrow aluiminium? mesh like piping made by the owner, I think this would have been less heat reflective, the narrowness of the piping could affect air flow and also the position where it was situated wasnt optimal. It was suseptible to more engine heat and less cold sucking.

    The car that used the apollo also used 5% ethanol based fuel, if you look at result 2 that car it also used 5% ethanol. I think this also had a factor on performance compared to non ethanol fuels.

    Result 4 (my car) with the piper xross, my car is due for servicing. I wasnt going to dyno it, but in the spirit of the day I dynoed it anyway. I honestly felt there could of been a extra 1-2 more kilowatts.

    Result 5 with the K&N flat pannel felt his car wasnt running right, the comment he made there was alot of popping from the exhaust prior to the run. I think there was comment about running to rich after the dyno by the technician. Please correct me if im wrong anthony.

    And yes the 172 with the cat back exhaust was really loud
    04' GTi 180

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Pug
    I wouldnt say filter mods didnt make really any difference at all. As there are a few other variables.

    The apollo that was used, didnt have factory 182 hose piping but thin narrow aluiminium? mesh like piping made by the owner, I think this would have been less heat reflective, the narrowness of the piping could affect air flow and also the position where it was situated wasnt optimal. It was suseptible to more engine heat and less cold sucking.

    The car that used the apollo also used 5% ethanol based fuel, if you look at result 2 that car it also used 5% ethanol. I think this also had a factor on performance compared to non ethanol fuels.

    Result 4 (my car) with the piper xross, my car is due for servicing. I wasnt going to dyno it, but in the spirit of the day I dynoed it anyway. I honestly felt there could of been a extra 1-2 more kilowatts.

    Result 5 with the K&N flat pannel felt his car wasnt running right, the comment he made there was alot of popping from the exhaust prior to the run. I think there was comment about running to rich after the dyno by the technician. Please correct me if im wrong anthony.

    And yes the 172 with the cat back exhaust was really loud
    There are a lot of "wotifs" there, but at the end of the day I still doubt that the induction on most of these modern cars can be improved from factory. Maybe if it was a really well designed aftermarket intake system with proper R&D and optimisation conducted by the company making the intake systems, it may be improved upon slightly. But I'd be very surprised if any of those apollo/k&n etc really do spend the time and money testing a particular intake design on the car. It's just too much effort for them when they can just claim a "10% increase" and most people looking at aftermarket intakes would still buy them without question. Think about it, if K&N with their typhoon system actually did do testing on the a gti180, wouldn't they supply their filters with the dyno graphs to prove it? In all likelihood, the people at K&N have never even seen a gti180 dyno graph in their life. Case in point, is Genie exhaust systems where they have the extractor systems available for many different types of cars. I know for a fact that the only research the technicians did before they would offer a system for say, a commodore v6, is get details of the exhaust port and manifold flange details and some clearance measurements and just make up a system to fit. In no case would they ever test the final system on a dyno before offering it to the customer.

    I also highly doubt the replacement panel filters would make much, if any difference to power. I'd like to see two conseqecutive dyno runs with stock, and then with aftermarket panel filter. IMO the stock paper filters flow just as well as the K&N panel filters.
    Last edited by U Turn; 22nd January 2006 at 10:57 PM.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! Dr_Pug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U Turn
    There are a lot of "wotifs" there
    I wouldnt say that they are whotif's, but points that need to be considered. Differences in fuel, air flow, whether the general intergrity of the motor is well maintained make differences on torque curves.

    Maybe if it was a really well designed aftermarket intake system with proper R&D and optimisation conducted by the company making the intake systems, it may be improved upon slightly. But I'd be very surprised if any of those apollo/k&n etc really do spend the time and money testing a particular intake design on the car.
    The apollo is a universal housing with an internal pod to be attached to what ever makeshift housing pipe you like. When looking at it in the flesh, i felt it was a poor design it had a small pod it was very narrow and there's to many variables in piping that would work against its alleged improved performance. Cost $200AUD

    It's just too much effort for them when they can just claim a "10% increase" and most people looking at aftermarket intakes would still buy them without question. Think about it, if K&N with their typhoon system actually did do testing on the a gti180, wouldn't they supply their filters with the dyno graphs to prove it?
    I cant speak for k&n and how they market there products, but if you recall there was a fellow frogger from the netherlands, who posted his dyno results stock and with the k&n typhoon on his 180, and it showed with the the typhoon there was increase in torque all the way up the torque curve with a net 10Hp gain top end. Cost $650 AUD Having seen the stock 180 airbox and induction piping pulled apart, you can see that its restrictive.

    I also highly doubt the replacement panel filters would make much, if any difference to power. I'd like to see two conseqecutive dyno runs with stock, and then with aftermarket panel filter. IMO the stock paper filters flow just as well as the K&N panel filters.
    Flat panel systems alone wont make a much of difference on power I agree But since installing it, the car feels like it has more throttle responce.

    Below is a dyno result of pipercross filter on a 180 from pipercross themselves

    http://www.pipercross.net/images/gra..._gti_large.gif

    A pic of the stock 180 filter



    Its huge, has a small surface area to size ratio and more restrictive compared to the piperxross flat panel.
    Last edited by WRC180; 22nd January 2006 at 11:55 PM.
    04' GTi 180

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! ClioF1's Avatar
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    I think the power made by the cars is fairly indicative of what we can expect from most 180s and Clios, but I did have a problem with the AFR that no one else had.

    At peak power it dropped to 11.5, which indicates that if I can get it back to 12-12.5 I would be able to pick up maybe 3 kW atw. Its basically putting too much fuel in at high RPM.

    I will try disconnecting the battery to reset the ECU and let it learn afresh with only the K&N panel.
    2005 RENAULTsport Clio 182 Cup F1


  14. #14
    Member minigolf's Avatar
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    God stuff. Dyno days often raise more questions than they solve, but their still fun all the same.

    The other interesting thing is it shows how much it's all a load of baloney in some regards too … my, albeit heavier, MINI with Milltek cat-back exhaust and CAI, is supposedly running 115kW atw, but I'm pretty sure a Clio would cover 400m or 0-100km/h quicker than me.

    Anyway, well done for organising it.
    Last edited by minigolf; 23rd January 2006 at 05:12 PM.

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! ClioF1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minigolf
    God stuff. Dyno days often raise more questions than they solve, but their still fun all the same.

    The other interesting thing is it shows how much it's all a load of baloney in some regards too my, albeit heavier, MINI with Milltek cat-back exhaust and CAI, is supposedly running 115kW atw, but I'm pretty sure a Clio would cover 400m or 0-100km/h quicker than me.

    Anyway, well done for organising it.
    Well you didn't seem to pull away from me taking off from the lights when I came on that Canberra run. Our cars were about equal from memory in a straight line.

    You're exactly right though, dynos are a funny thing. They can clear up things such as finding out if a mod works, or they can create other problems like which car is quicker
    2005 RENAULTsport Clio 182 Cup F1


  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! MY 4's Avatar
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    Sorry I missed out folks, sounds like a top day out.

    I was knackered after a very full week and also preparing a few last minute things for the AF BBQ.

    ~Dave Power` [MY 4] :

    "#PW33RR" --- > "PW33RR" 2009 Mazda6 MXR-CD, 2.2L Turbo Diesel - More torque than the last! Geesssuz[/COLOR] HOT
    "#ZEG01F" --- > 2006 VW Golf 2.0L TDI - The torque machine SOLD
    "MY 4" --------------- > 2002 Monaco Blue RenaultSport Clio MkII SOLD
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  17. #17
    Member minigolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClioF1
    Well you didn't seem to pull away from me taking off from the lights when I came on that Canberra run. Our cars were about equal from memory in a straight line.
    Yeah, that's what I'm saying I'd expect a Clio (esp 182) to be quicker in a straight line run.

    I reckon if you can go to the same dyno (preferrably same operator) pre and post mods that's the best you can hope for in terms of accuracy. Turning up to a random dyno day is to be encouraged, cause its kinda fun, but really there'll always be questions about the numbers. Someone usually gets pissed at their result!

  18. #18
    1075.6 SamR's Avatar
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    Good to see you had an enjoyable day.
    As far as dyno figures go, if the readings are all done on the same dyno on the same day, at about the same time, then you get some idea how one car compares to another at that particular point in time. My
    2005 Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup
    1989 205 Gti - Sold


    "This year, I invested in pumpkins. They've been going up the whole month of October and I got a feeling they're going to peak right around January. Then, bang! That's when I'll cash in." - Homer Simpson

  19. #19
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    Different mods on the same car...
    back & forth a few times too, just to get the averages up!

  20. #20
    Tadpole
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    A low res vid of the sequence of events is available
    Right Here

    The resolution doesn't really allow for the actual forum posts to be read. however you get the basic jist of the day, I have a high res one available but its 118mb, I plan on making it more special however will not have time to do it untill I get back from holidays (Mid Feb.), as this one only took 90 mins to strap together.
    I am more than happy to throw the high res one on a cd for anybody, and you can buy me a donut at the next kk meet.

    Also, If people just want the raw file of their car on the dyno (I have Dr. Pug and robs MX5 also), please let me know,

    Thanks to anthony for getting a good day happening, a bit of a shame yours was the only one I didn't get footage of

    Dave

    D82
    What did you do last sunday?

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! Dr_Pug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDM82M
    A low res vid of the sequence of events is available
    Right Here

    The resolution doesn't really allow for the actual forum posts to be read. however you get the basic jist of the day, I have a high res one available but its 118mb, I plan on making it more special however will not have time to do it untill I get back from holidays (Mid Feb.), as this one only took 90 mins to strap together.
    I am more than happy to throw the high res one on a cd for anybody, and you can buy me a donut at the next kk meet.

    Also, If people just want the raw file of their car on the dyno (I have Dr. Pug and robs MX5 also), please let me know,

    Thanks to anthony for getting a good day happening, a bit of a shame yours was the only one I didn't get footage of

    Dave

    D82
    Just viewed the video, good job
    Last edited by WRC180; 24th January 2006 at 01:11 PM.
    04' GTi 180

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDM82M
    A low res vid of the sequence of events is available
    Nice vid, well made! The AFR on the Clio's really is very high at lower rpms, and then just suddenly dips down and you can see that's where power really picks up as well. I wonder why Renault has tuned it that way, as all the Clio's seemed to be doing that. The only thing I can think of for purposely doing that would be to get better fuel economy for when the car is being driven normally. It would be interesting to see if a programmable ECU could correct that and increase power in that rpm.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! Dr_Pug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U Turn
    It would be interesting to see if a programmable ECU could correct that and increase power in that rpm.
    Apparently there is a group N ecu floating about for the clio, to address the issue of fuel being chucked in at 14 to 1/4500nm @ the wheels. This is where the 180 has the advantage over the clio, the 180 fuel mixture is chucked in 12 to 13s/2500nm @ the wheels.

    They might as well call it a "stock 180 ecu"
    04' GTi 180

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minigolf
    I'm interested in the results anyway Anthony, so post up the results.
    We can swap charts.

    Get some video too.


    Cheers Liam
    bump..any charts coming?
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! ClioF1's Avatar
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    Charts now in the original post
    2005 RENAULTsport Clio 182 Cup F1


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