Talbot Tagora
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Thread: Talbot Tagora

  1. #1
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    Default Talbot Tagora

    Just read an interesting article on the history of the Talbot Tagora that is currently featured on the allpar website.

    Have any ever been imported to Australia?

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    If Chrysler Australia weren't sold off to Mitsubishi to pay off the US parent companies debts could this have been a replacement platform for both the Valiant and Centura?

    http://www.allpar.com/cars/adopted/talbot/tagora.html

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    Default Talbot tagora

    If I am not mistaken there is/was a wooden mock-up of the talbot Tagora at the National Museum in Birdwood S.A. It was there back in 2001 but shamefully housed in an open shed in the outer grounds. Appears it was shipped to Chrysler Australia for evaluation as a replacement for the Chrysler Valiant but for some reason given little consideration. Like to know if it still exists.

    JP - SIMCA MAN

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    I could be wrong, but my understanding was that the car at Birdwood was a wooden styling mockup of "the next Valiant", which was based on the Tagora. I also was there about 10 + years ago when I saw it. I was also at Birdwood about 1 or 2 years ago and there was no sign of it that I could see.

    The car I remember was blue, it was not a real car, the windows were stick on shiny silver plastic film.

    They also had a 4 cylinder engine in a shed out the back, it was a 4 cylinder version of the Chrysler hemi 6. I spoke to a staff member there and he said it was a "one off" engine for evaluation.

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    Thanks for the info, would love to see a picture of this car and to know when it was made.

    From my understanding Chrysler Australia wanted to replace the VK Valiant with an all new model in 1976 anticipating the all new XD Falcon and VB Commodore cars. The original plan was to base it on the new USA Dodge Aspen/Plymouth Volare F body (modified A body) but the funding was knocked back by Detroit. The result was the CL Valiant restyle of the old car.
    The next plan was to introduce an all new model in 1978 or 79 and I am guessing this is when they considered the French Talbot Tagora as a platform. As we know they ended up being forced to restyle the old car again with the CM Valiant, the last Australian model. It's a shame as the Talbot would have been a good basis for an Australian Chrysler for the 1980s. The USA Aspen/Volare was replaced in 1980 by the great FWD K body cars and would have been a bad choice.

    I had heard there was a 4 cyl Hemi built and am glad it still exists. I have also heard they tested an OHC 5cyl and a V6.

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    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    You will never find me saying a kind word about Chrysler. But the last Valiant [CM] would have left the Talbot Tagora for dead with its dated styling, PRV6 with triple Webers. !!!
    The CM Chrysler would be more suited to the Aus buyer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest View Post
    You will never find me saying a kind word about Chrysler. But the last Valiant [CM] would have left the Talbot Tagora for dead with its dated styling, PRV6 with triple Webers. !!!
    The CM Chrysler would be more suited to the Aus buyer.
    could you imagine how many would be left now if they did bring them out ??
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo View Post
    could you imagine how many would be left now if they did bring them out ??
    CM Valiant, an awful, awful, car.
    We had a near new AP5 as a family car reliable but dreadful in every other way, the EH Holden was a heaps better drive.
    I remember sitting in the back of a Charger on a dirt road and watching the body flex around me.
    The R/S series and the VF Pacer are the only Valiants that interest me, the body design of the R/S and the bare bones simplicity and functionality of the Pacer (The SS Holden HQ was another in this mould)
    and the fact it was the last of the slant engines, the Hemi sounded like a chaff cutter most of the time.
    The Webers were only on the sporty model Tagora.
    Graham

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    The Webers were only on the sporty model Tagora.
    Graham
    Graham would you have any idea of the cam specs for these?
    I have tripple webers and manifold possibly from a Tagora, which are destined to be bolted onto a Volvo 760 motor for my 504 wagon.
    I bought the webers and manifolds on ebay a few years ago.
    They were supposedly from a Delorian but others have suggested they are from a Tagora.

    Paul

    "A straight is merely the distance between two corners."

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    Quote Originally Posted by 504-504-504 View Post
    Graham would you have any idea of the cam specs for these?
    I have tripple webers and manifold possibly from a Tagora, which are destined to be bolted onto a Volvo 760 motor for my 504 wagon.
    I bought the webers and manifolds on ebay a few years ago.
    They were supposedly from a Delorian but others have suggested they are from a Tagora.

    Paul

    "A straight is merely the distance between two corners."
    they won't be from a delorean as they were all injected

    tagora parts come up on ebay once in a blue moon
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

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    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

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    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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    Quote Originally Posted by 504-504-504 View Post
    Graham would you have any idea of the cam specs for these?
    I have tripple webers and manifold possibly from a Tagora, which are destined to be bolted onto a Volvo 760 motor for my 504 wagon.
    I bought the webers and manifolds on ebay a few years ago.
    They were supposedly from a Delorian but others have suggested they are from a Tagora.

    Paul

    "A straight is merely the distance between two corners."
    Yes, Delorean had a way detuned K Jetronic, 125 Hp only.
    The Webers would never have passed emissions requirements in the US.
    Interesting thought about the cams, Odd Fire V6 may know.
    Graham

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    CM Valiant, an awful, awful, car.
    We had a near new AP5 as a family car reliable but dreadful in every other way, the EH Holden was a heaps better drive.
    I remember sitting in the back of a Charger on a dirt road and watching the body flex around me.
    The R/S series and the VF Pacer are the only Valiants that interest me, the body design of the R/S and the bare bones simplicity and functionality of the Pacer (The SS Holden HQ was another in this mould)
    and the fact it was the last of the slant engines, the Hemi sounded like a chaff cutter most of the time.
    The Webers were only on the sporty model Tagora.
    Graham
    Having driven many old Valiants, Holdens and Fords I can only guess you had a bad AP5. An EH Holden doesn't come close to a good AP5 Valiant in power, handling or comfort especially at speed. I too like the VF Pacer and am a fan of the slant 6, I owned and raced a VC Valiant many years ago.

    The 245/265 Hemi 6s were a great engine though that were lighter and more powerful than the old slant 6. When they introduced ELB on the last models it not only cut emissions and fuel use (25%-30mpg) it increased power when Ford and Holden engines were losing power.

    Could you imagine a Tagora with a 4.3 litre ELB Hemi and 152kW?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hemi Metal View Post
    Having driven many old Valiants, Holdens and Fords I can only guess you had a bad AP5. An EH Holden doesn't come close to a good AP5 Valiant in power, handling or comfort especially at speed. I too like the VF Pacer and am a fan of the slant 6, I owned and raced a VC Valiant many years ago.

    The 245/265 Hemi 6s were a great engine though that were lighter and more powerful than the old slant 6. When they introduced ELB on the last models it not only cut emissions and fuel use (25%-30mpg) it increased power when Ford and Holden engines were losing power.

    Could you imagine a Tagora with a 4.3 litre ELB Hemi and 152kW?
    The AP5 rattled over bumps.
    The EH was great on rough roads, people have forgotten just how good these pre HK Holdens were, handling a different story though!
    Graham

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hemi Metal View Post
    Could you imagine a Tagora with a 4.3 litre ELB Hemi and 152kW?
    I don't think handling was one of the Tagora's strong points.
    The use of a 505 rear axle setup compromised the handling of such a wide car.

    Could have been a handfull with the V6 let alone a healthy hemi.

    Paul

    ďA straight is merely the distance between two corners.Ē

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    Past: Goliath, Isuzu Bellett, Austin A30, Peugeot 203, 403, 404, 504,505.
    Subaru 4WD wagon, Toyota Hilux Dual Cab Diesel 4WD.

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    I'm sure that if Chrysler or moi built one a wider Borg/Warner rear end and heavy duty suspension for Australian conditions would be used.

    There would have also been chance of the Mitsubishi Astron 2.6 litre being an option rather than the Simca 2.2. litre.

    Just thinking what might have been if Chrysler Detroit hadn't persisted in building dinosaurs and had a good economy car for the fuel crisis rather than going broke and selling off their international subsidiaries.

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    Does anyone remember the Chrysler Centura?
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Does anyone remember the Chrysler Centura?
    been trying to forget the rust heaps for a very long time
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo View Post
    been trying to forget the rust heaps for a very long time
    Ah yes but didn't the 4 cylinder ones have the 505 turbo block in them?

    N9T, N9TE or N9TEA

    Started life as a Simca 180 engine derivation, used in the Tagora too.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simca_Type_180

    "A 2.2 L (2,155 cc) version was also built. It was first used in the Talbot Tagora. Bore was 92.0 mm (3.6 in) and stroke was 81.5 mm (3.2 in) making a very oversquare design. This engine is sometimes confused with the 2,165 cc Renault/Peugeot Douvrin engine, but the displacement of the Simca 180 2.2-litre was somewhat less. Later, this engine was also turbocharged, for use in the CitroŽn BX4TC and Peugeot 505 Turbos.

    Applications:

    CitroŽn BX 4TC
    Matra Murena 2.2
    Peugeot 505 Turbo
    Talbot Tagora GLS"

    Paul

    ďA straight is merely the distance between two corners.Ē

    Current: Peugeot 205 GTi Mi16 1987
    Peugeot 205 Si, one red one silver, both 1991.
    Peugeot 504 Wagon, V6 and 5 speed gearbox.
    Isuzu (Holden) Rodeo, 4WD dual cab, extended chassis.
    Past: Goliath, Isuzu Bellett, Austin A30, Peugeot 203, 403, 404, 504,505

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    Growing up my neighbour bought a KB Centura 2 litre 4 speed. This car took much punishment and was reliable. It was faster and roomier than a Cortina 2 litre or a Sunbird. Rust was an issue though.
    A couple of years later a mate bought a KC Centura 245 manual and put in a near standard 265 with a 4 barrel carb. This beast would turn 13 second quarters on the drag strip all day and put many V8s in their place for an all up investment of $2,000. With some work on the rear suspension and better tyres it went into the 12s.

    Chrysler engineers wanted to stretch the wheelbase so the engine could be moved further back and improve steering and handling but the bean counters nixed it and decided to just lengthen the centre of the grill instead. They should have also strengthened the firewall as this is a weak point. Chrysler did build and test a couple of 318 V8 cars but this idea was dropped.

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    The Chrysler 180 or Centura was the forerunner to the Tagora.
    Yes, it had the engine used in the 505 Turbo in 2 litre form, N7 I believe.
    My father had a 2 litre auto for quite a while, pretty reasonable car, certainly steered and handled much better than the AP5. When he first got it he went down the Eastern Freeway in a series of swerves, not used to the direct rack and pinion steering!
    Graham

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    I heard a similar steering story from an old time Peugeot salesman here in Geelong (Jack Jones of Jonal Motors ) everything would be going well with the sale until the customer drove the car, then they would start complaining about the steering "bloody cars all over the road, terrible steering" as he said, very hard to get away with telling the customer that they go were you point them.

    Cheers
    Graham Lewis ps But he did sell a lot of Pugs

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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo View Post
    been trying to forget the rust heaps for a very long time
    Apparently in 1973 a lot of Simca bodies intended for the KB ended up left to rot on the wharf due to union action over the French Nuke tests. This undoubtedly helped improve their corrosion factor by a fair bit!
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Apparently in 1973 a lot of Simca bodies intended for the KB ended up left to rot on the wharf due to union action over the French Nuke tests. This undoubtedly helped improve their corrosion factor by a fair bit!
    exactly

    i was once told be a member who is not allowed here anymore that i was full of sh1t when i said that

    i had the proof to boot but that was still not good enough

    don't worry, VL commodores are not real good in the rust stakes either due to the bodies sitting out in the weather for 18months while holden waited for the approval to assemble the cars
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo View Post
    exactly

    i was once told be a member who is not allowed here anymore that i was full of sh1t when i said that

    i had the proof to boot but that was still not good enough

    don't worry, VL commodores are not real good in the rust stakes either due to the bodies sitting out in the weather for 18months while holden waited for the approval to assemble the cars
    Merde alors! Ze proof of ze rerst only in ze boot? What about ze rest of ze vehicule?
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    As you know pugrambo, it is fact...stuck on a wharf for almost 2 years no less!

    Back to the top, yes there is at least one Tagora in Australia, I remember seeing one for sale in Unique Cars about 15-20 years ago.

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