Simca hot up?
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Simca hot up?

    "Would you please advise what adjustments and alterations would be necessary to obtain around 100 mph from my Simca Aronde without fitting a hot cam? I had in mind the addition of a sports coil, silencer and air cleaner, retaining if possible the single Solex carburettor, and porting and polishing. How much should I take off the head, what would be the new compression ratio and what would be the best fuel to use?"
    So wrote "Hopeful" of Kew Vic. in the April 1963 edition of "Sports Car World".

    The editors reply was gentle, advising "Hopeful" that achieving 100 mph was doubtful with his suggested operations.
    42 years on I wonder what "Hopeful" is up to? Telling his son to leave his car as it is and save his money?

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! 604 tragic's Avatar
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    Default I think I know "Hopeful" from Kew!!!! & the Aronde coupe

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    "Would you please advise what adjustments and alterations would be necessary to obtain around 100 mph from my Simca Aronde without fitting a hot cam? I had in mind the addition of a sports coil, silencer and air cleaner, retaining if possible the single Solex carburettor, and porting and polishing. How much should I take off the head, what would be the new compression ratio and what would be the best fuel to use?"
    So wrote "Hopeful" of Kew Vic. in the April 1963 edition of "Sports Car World".

    The editors reply was gentle, advising "Hopeful" that achieving 100 mph was doubtful with his suggested operations.
    42 years on I wonder what "Hopeful" is up to? Telling his son to leave his car as it is and save his money?
    Seriously - I have nearly always lived in Kew and there was this ultra keen Aronde nut from a French family (Bernard A....) who had a series of Arondes in that era. Starting with a 'warm' one when he was 18 or so - but soon graduating to a stink hot Aronde coupe - yes a 2 door COUPE!!
    I gather they were rare as I had not seen another one before or after.

    One of the borders of Kew follows the Yarra River for 5 miles and a wide road runs alongside called the Kew Boulevard - it was remote from houses and, like a country road at that time. unrestricted in speed (except on a few switchback corners). Every night was race night.
    This little Aronde coupe would be flying around this Boulevard on 3 & 2 wheels beating nearly everyone else. In the quest for more speed, Bernard finally fitted a Holden grey motor with tripple SUs The Aronde stayed competative for a year or 2 more.
    All this was too much fun to last and the cops gradually closed it down - now its 50Kph and only used by crazy bikers (they put in a median strip of gravel to discourage bikes).
    Bernard had a Mercedes workshop in Kew for many years and last year he sold up and retired to the coast.
    So many projects - so little time.

  3. #3
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Sounds like our man, doesn't it?

    Quite a few Simcas got Holden engines, though cutting into the firewall was necessary.

    And mentioning the 2-door model, I know I've seen one of them too...

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Simca hot up ID..

    604 tragic and Ray.
    I deliberately left out the author's name but after all these years I don't suppose it would hurt anyone. He was a Mr KP Johnston.
    Interesting anecdotes on the Simca / Holdens.

    The Simca coupe could have been the "Oceane". I would imagine this to be a rare bird in Australia.
    Or, and more likely it was the Simca "Grande Large" being the two door 90a Aronde of 1956.
    The later P60 Aronde two door was the "Monaco Hardtop" with the "Flash Special" engine of 1960.
    The 1962 version of the above was the "Monaco Speciale' with the "Rush Super M" 70 hp engine.

    I may have my wires crossed here but I believe Kerry Ryan of the Simca CC of Aus may have one of the P60 two doors?

    The increase in power with the "Rush" engines 52bhp to the "Rush Super M" 70bhp was achieved by a new cam, valves and carburettor!
    An 18bhp inrease, thats not a bad percentage if you worked it out.

  5. #5
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Oh yes, now I remember a hardtop... a blue one, there was a strange set of side trims, with a white line part way along... 90a, I'm sure.

    Must have been around Parramatta somewhere...

    One of the Simca gurus in Sydney, by the way, was Alf Long. These days he's a 504 Familiale man, or was when I last spoke to him. He was into rallying. There was a guy who ran a little machine shop in his backyard at Yagoona or Bankstown too, was an ex-Waggott man, he had a Holden engine in his.

    The Holden centre fitted into the Simca banjo as well... or could be made to... and the splines were close enough too.

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Simca hot up?

    Running a Holden motor in the Simca would call for a diff change. The 4.5:1 would be far to low. The Holden being more suited to its 3.5:1 or taller to work properly.
    Unfortunately or not, for Simca tuners they were stuck with 4.44:1. The commercial diff was a low low 5.37:1. Good for hill climbs?

    Darrel Manning former owner of the black 90a raced at Wanneroo told me his wish was for a taller diff for this track. Although it was ideal for the shorter "round the houses" regularity events. The Simca having a reasonable spread between 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears. Their boxes were robust too.

    The Wilyman and I often ruminated on the adaptability of Fiat diffs to the Simca? They would have had a greater ratio selection.

    Something for the Arondistes to consider. The 4 stud wheels were prone to cracking around the stud holes. The studs themselves were also weak.
    For competition use and Ampol Trial entries it might pay to look for sturdier studs.
    Unfortunately the Simca had an odd 4 bolt dimension making the fitting of an alternative wheel difficult. This may have been overcome by now.
    Last edited by Wildebeest; 2nd April 2005 at 08:33 PM. Reason: text change

  7. #7
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I've been wondering if they're the same stud pattern as 504s...

    The wheel nuts were fitted with a spring washer and supposed to be torqued to a certain figure, if I recall correctly.

    The load should therefore have been spread fairly well as the washer was quite large, and the nuts were only really weak if overtightened.

    Then again, another 37 years have passed since I last owned one!

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Simca hot up...

    Ray,
    If only the Simca 4 bolt pattern was the same as the 504 or Fiat, maybe the 4cyl Centura? The first two have been measured, the last ?

    The weakness in the wheel stud is its 10mm dia. and its coarse metric thread, effectively reducing the stud dia. even more.
    The nuts with their spring washer weren't a problem as far as I know.
    As for torquing wheel nuts, did anyone bother about those things then?
    Does anyone bother even now?

  9. #9
    Tadpole mick55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    The increase in power with the "Rush" engines 52bhp to the "Rush Super M" 70bhp was achieved by a new cam, valves and carburettor!
    An 18bhp inrease, thats not a bad percentage if you worked it out.
    This brings back memories, I had an Aronde with the Rush Super M motor in 72-73 when I was 17. Purchased for $200 with 55,000 miles on the clock I always thought they we 62 bhp. Maybe that's why the thing went so well, It absolutely hosed off all the locally built four cylinder stuff of the same era (70s) even though it was an early 60s model. I reckon it could manage about 90mph + , bloody dangerous on retreads Good brakes as well for all drums. I loved the Simca, a much underated car in Australia, I eventually sold it because oil was leaking from the back bearing into the bell housing.

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mick55
    This brings back memories, I had an Aronde with the Rush Super M motor in 72-73 when I was 17. Purchased for $200 with 55,000 miles on the clock I always thought they we 62 bhp. Maybe that's why the thing went so well, It absolutely hosed off all the locally built four cylinder stuff of the same era (70s) even though it was an early 60s model. I reckon it could manage about 90mph + , bloody dangerous on retreads Good brakes as well for all drums. I loved the Simca, a much underated car in Australia, I eventually sold it because oil was leaking from the back bearing into the bell housing.
    You will find all Simca fans agree with you- They could actually outbrake a Mini Cooper under race conditions. Huge swept area
    If you Seach on Aussie Frogs you will find quite a few references

    Warren
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