Wayne's Aronde racer
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  1. #1
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Default Wayne's Aronde racer

    There are, apparently, six Simca Arondes being prepared for Group N racing... that would be pre-1959 Group Nb...

    And Wayne Yeo on the Gold Coast is progressing well with his. He told me last night he has the engine ready now, so it won't be long before it looks like a complete car again.

    I should have some pics of the car next week if anyone's interested...

    Simcas, by the way, did fairly well in touring car racing back in those times. They were very light (Wayne reckons that 25lbs of tar coming off the body will make it lighter!) and the engine breathed pretty well despite the siamesed inlet ports. Brakes are identical to the 203, with one leading and one trailing shoe... and though I think you can change that to twin leading shoes, Wayne isn't taking that option at this stage.

    Anyway, more about that when we get some photos.



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    A little brother for the Dodge... and not far apart either!

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Wayne's Aronde racer.

    Ray, Am waiting in anticipation to see Wayne's photographic progress.
    I've sent out my John Sprinzel parka and stringy backs for laundering. I like to get into the mood for these occasions. My other half draws the line at my Castrol R incense sticks!

    Wayne won't have any brake problems, the Simca had 130 square" of brake surface, far more than the Holdens of the day!
    If I recall Wayne is running a 90a Aronde. If it was a P60 the first thing you would throw away is that swallow bonnet mascot, it weighs a ton. 3 or 4 seconds off a lap at least!

  3. #3
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Interestingly, I now remember the Simmons brothers' advice on the earlier, car...

    To bend down the ends of the chrome strip over the grille. That traps more air, cools the car better!

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    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Wayne's Aronde racer.

    I don't recall overheating being a major problem with Appendix J Simcas.
    Although as the state of tune was developed cooling problems are a natural follow on.
    Have a gander at the Simca's radiator and tell me it isn't identical to the Pug 403/404? Apart from the mounting.

    With the availability of Aronde water pumps being non existent, a solution was found and a good one.
    Darrel Manning, one time Pres. of the WA Simca Club [Mk2}, adapted an early Toyota Corrolla pump to his black 90a racer. Just requiring a different backing plate and the drilling and tapping of 2 or 3 holes and the opening up of the hole in the front of the block, it worked a treat. The Simca pulley could be made to fit or simply use the Corrolla.

  5. #5
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I went for my drive to the Gold Coast today and visited Wayne...

    Here are some pics of his car as it stands at the moment



    The body's been sandblasted... but the roof needs more work.



    Very little rust despite being 48 years old, none in critical areas.



    That seat mount nearest is partly torn from the floor, but otherwise everything's fine.



    Home made inlet manifold for the twin-choke Weber.



    Floorchange is from the later model.



    The dash is ready to go, as Wayne is showing us... and...



    ...door trims have been remade.



    Not much in here at the moment, but give it time!

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Wayne's Aronde racer.

    Ray and Wayne,
    Thanks for the photo presentation. Wayne don't be too fussy with the interior trim, it will be too nice to race. That beautiful silver grey P60 would be worthy of a picture story alone.
    The Aronde racer body appears to be a good straight basis to begin with. Look at those top wishbone shim adjustments, you'll be able to play for hours with those!

    With the two different,3 and 5 bearing engines do the rules prevent using the "Rush" 5 bearing engine in the 90a Aronde?
    I'm not criticising your choice of the original "Flash" engine. The Simca pundits have surmised that the 3 bearing engine had less friction and could spin freely.
    The 5 bearing engine should theoretically be the stronger along with its Fiat type centrifugal oil filter, being marginally better than the simple gauze type on the 3 bearing.
    Wayne, have you or any of your fellow "Arondists" yet worked out how to tap into the 90a or P60 oilways to fit an external/remote oil filter and cooler set up? [Not the Fiat by-pass type!]
    My friend Wilyman and I have often mused on this idea but as usual we are 30 plus years too late.

    The Weber? shown on your fabriicated manifold, what type is it, also is it a compound or two stage opening type?

    The siamesed inlet ports of the Simca head are often criticised as being restrictive. Tell that to someone who has been tuning minis?

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Five-bearing engines didn't come out until around 1962, so they can't be used in the 90a...

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    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Wayne's racer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    Five-bearing engines didn't come out until around 1962, so they can't be used in the 90a...
    I was certainly aware of this but I just wondered if the CAMS rules may have allowed the later Rush engine because of its similar capacity and negligable power difference? Still rules is rules.

  9. #9
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Whether or not they should is a moot point, but to do such a thing would merely open floodgates...

    What would then stop us asking to be able to use the 340 LA engine in the Dodge? The capacity is no more than we can bore the 318 Poly to, and they use the same crankshaft. But we would win handsomely on weight.

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    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    I was certainly aware of this but I just wondered if the CAMS rules may have allowed the later Rush engine because of its similar capacity and negligable power difference? Still rules is rules.
    Just been reading all the postings I missed.
    The last tiime I looked at the ex Terry Cunliffe, ex Darryl Manning Simca it was running a Rush 5 bearing motor.
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  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Wayne's Aronde Racer

    Quote Originally Posted by Westair
    Just been reading all the postings I missed.
    The last tiime I looked at the ex Terry Cunliffe, ex Darryl Manning Simca it was running a Rush 5 bearing motor.
    Westy, sshhhoosh!

    The ex Darryl M. car. I turned this one up taking root in a front yard in Wembley, then passing this info onto Darryl. Some old chap owned it at the time, he repeated the yarn on how he solved all its problems by fitting a Holden carby!! Didn't everyone?

    I wasn't aware it was Terry Cunliffe's old car. I wonder if Darryl knew?

    Westy, I don't know if I told you but I owned the black Museum P60 prior to selling it to Brett Christian. Should you make a move on this I can provide some info on it. I gave Brett a print-out on what I thought it would need to restore it. Unfortunately I didn't have the facilities to do this.

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    Icon12

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    Westy, sshhhoosh!

    The ex Darryl M. car. I turned this one up taking root in a front yard in Wembley, then passing this info onto Darryl. Some old chap owned it at the time, he repeated the yarn on how he solved all its problems by fitting a Holden carby!! Didn't everyone?

    I wasn't aware it was Terry Cunliffe's old car. I wonder if Darryl knew?

    Westy, I don't know if I told you but I owned the black Museum P60 prior to selling it to Brett Christian. Should you make a move on this I can provide some info on it. I gave Brett a print-out on what I thought it would need to restore it. Unfortunately I didn't have the facilities to do this.
    Suitably shhoooshed. Darryl did know about Terry.
    Arranging pick up of cars on Friday.Will keep updating , probably slowly.

    W.
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    In business, words are words; explanations are explanations, promises are promises, but only performance is reality.
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  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    Ray has mentioned GroupNb a few times as pre 1959 but historic and CAMS websites say Group Na is pre 1957 and Group Nb is pre 1965 and is virtually same as Appendix J which means Simcas etc must compete against Mini Cooper S etc.
    Group Na has less classes Under 1100cc, 1100 to 1500 where Nb has 1100 -1300 etc. I think I have got this correct
    Comments appreciated.

    W
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  14. #14
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Yes, I was in error with the Group Na date...

    It's pre-1958, in other words cars up to December 31, 1957.

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    Tadpole
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    My husband and I were at the junkyard a few months ago and i saw an aronde there I didn't really know what it was at the time just that it had what looks like a brake fluid container in it that was made of glass which i made my husband take off for me. He lauged about having to do it but I told him someone might need one. So if you hear of anyone needing one I have it there wasn't much else left of the car but I do have that.

    My e-mail just in case is [email protected]

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Very thoughtful of you... was it off the master cylinder? ISTR that they had a glass one that kind of screwed into the fitting like the lid screwed on the top.

    Ray Bell

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    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Waynes etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond G
    Very thoughtful of you... was it off the master cylinder? ISTR that they had a glass one that kind of screwed into the fitting like the lid screwed on the top.

    Ray Bell
    Ray,
    I think Snowmaiden is referring to the small "olive jar" remote type, identical to the 203. They had a rubber nipple on the bottom that perished over time. Gordon Miller sourced these items some years back if anyone's after one.

    Snowmaiden, nice to hear from you. Might I suggest that the Simca bottle would make a good water dispenser on your canary cage?

  18. #18
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Oh yes, that one... I was thinking of the one used in 403s and 404s, wasn't I?

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts parry's Avatar
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    I was at Wakefield on Friday doing some practice and there was an dark blue aronde there as well. Didnt reliase it was french until the owner said go the french cars.

    I was running with it at one stage and it had decent power, but the handling let it down, it had the french signature of one wheel up on every corner
    90 205 Gti Cherry Red(Track Car)
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    PBs:

    Oran Park: 1:27:9
    Wakefield: 1:05.6 (July 2015)
    Eastern Creek: 1:54 (8v) 1:48 (16V)
    Mt Huntley: 34.44 (2004 stock 205)
    Ringwood: 35.06 (30/10/2005)
    Winton: 1:33.6 (2017)

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parry
    I was at Wakefield on Friday doing some practice and there was an dark blue aronde there as well. Didnt reliase it was french until the owner said go the french cars.

    I was running with it at one stage and it had decent power, but the handling let it down, it had the french signature of one wheel up on every corner
    Front wheel or back wheel?
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    In business, words are words; explanations are explanations, promises are promises, but only performance is reality.
    Harold Ganeen.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts parry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westair
    Front wheel or back wheel?
    Back wheel
    90 205 Gti Cherry Red(Track Car)
    2009 207gti
    1985 505gti (Shitbox Rally) Sold

    PBs:

    Oran Park: 1:27:9
    Wakefield: 1:05.6 (July 2015)
    Eastern Creek: 1:54 (8v) 1:48 (16V)
    Mt Huntley: 34.44 (2004 stock 205)
    Ringwood: 35.06 (30/10/2005)
    Winton: 1:33.6 (2017)

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parry
    Back wheel
    Simcas can be set up to lift inside front wheel which the Lotus Cortinas did much later.
    1986 Renault Fuego GTX
    1972 Mercedes Benz 280E
    1988 Nissan Trakka Campervan
    1972 VW Kombi

    In business, words are words; explanations are explanations, promises are promises, but only performance is reality.
    Harold Ganeen.

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! 604 tragic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westair
    Front wheel or back wheel?
    Ahhhh - the memories of Kew Boulevard in the mid '60s!!
    That guy with the hot Aronde Coupe from my teenage years was able to lift a front wheel on cue just like the Cortinas GT500s. When pressed he lifted a rear wheel as well. He was a Fonzy(sp?) type guy who hung around the Harp Junction garage where they had a string of racing FJs, so he may have had a bit of track experience to draw on when setting up his Aronde

    His 'party trick' was to stick his finger in the gap between the body & the door when it was on 3 &/or 2 wheels (on the lifted side of the car) and leave his finger there when he went back onto 4 wheels. The bodyshell on that Aronde coupe was so strong that there was no flex to squash his finger.

    He invited me to do it a few times but I chickened out - I didnt want to be called stumpy!!

    The cops didnt seem to bother us much so long as we stayed out of the residential streets (Kew Boulevard was unrestricted speed limit) - wouldnt have mattered much though - as the police cars at the time were Studebaker Larks (fast but underbraked & needed balls/experiece for twisty roads, Holden Divisional Vans (EJ or EH) and Ford Anglias (funny back windows).
    So many projects - so little time.

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