Deisel quality -- Gee's I HATE this car.

Hi Guys,

Has anyone had problems with diesel lately ?? For the last couple of months I've been filling up at a tiny petrol station out where my kids go to school ( old ... as in, they have to go out and read the pump to find out how much fuel I've put in).

About the same time I ended up with it running on 3cylinder due to a leaky injecter. I pull the injector apart (it was leaking at the screwed together joint in the middle). There was no evidence of a seal ... It still leaked when I re-assembled ( ), so I re-assembled with thread tape fixing the problem. I've noticed over the last 6weeks the cars been quite stinky and has left small puddles of deisel on the ground whenever parked.... I just didn't want to know .... Why can't the heap of sh!t just run without problems for any length of time

Now I've been forced to look at it, it would start yesterday morning, I found no fuel in the line, so I replaced the fuel filter and primed the circuit. Then this morning it wouldn't start again (sigh). No fuel again, it's drained back to the tank. So I've just grabbed another 2nd hand hilux primer/filter assembly to fit tonight (there should be a one way valve in them to prevent the fuel returning to the tank).

I looked for the leak, and it appears the bloody pump is leaking around the gasket under it's top cover. Can I replace this without pulling the pump apart ?? It's a bosch mechanical pump.

Now that's 3 issues in the last couple of months ... age ?? Or am I getting dodgy deisel that is causing me issies ( just incase I'll never fill from that place again). How in the hell can a pump leak from a static seal between housings ?? How can a "sealess" injector start leaking Something very strange going on here

seeya,
Shane L.

As luck would have it, I have a bosch injection pump re-builder 5minutes drive from my place (I think most of there business if posted in). Either way, I wandered in there .... and on the counter is a cut-away bosch injection pump.... I'll be damned, the bit that's leaking on mine just looks like a "lid" on the top. He took a look and said "Oh one of those pumps", grabbed two seals from a box and said "it'll be one of those ... 5bucks will do mate"...

Rebuild cost -- About $650 .... Eye wateringly cheap compared to the Lucas pump fitted to nearly every other PSA 12valve TD. I'll have a crack at replacing the top seal tonight.

seeya,
Shane L.

DoubleChevron said:

As luck would have it, I have a bosch injection pump re-builder 5minutes drive from my place (I think most of there business if posted in). Either way, I wandered in there .... and on the counter is a cut-away bosch injection pump.... I'll be damned, the bit that's leaking on mine just looks like a "lid" on the top. He took a look and said "Oh one of those pumps", grabbed two seals from a box and said "it'll be one of those ... 5bucks will do mate"...

Rebuild cost -- About $650 .... Eye wateringly cheap compared to the Lucas pump fitted to nearly every other PSA 12valve TD. I'll have a crack at replacing the top seal tonight.

seeya,
Shane L.

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It's reasonably straight forward, the top cover can be a pain to get back on though.

$5 is ripping you off. I paid 65c for the top seal.

Piece of cake to get back on ?? I finally got it back on I can't see what I'm doing ... 'cos the cars impossible to see anything on. ... and the car wouldn't rev, so I pulled it back off and it's actually broken the lever from the accelerator spindal. This cars the most appalling heap of junk to work on Access is almost impossible to the two corner studs. It's leak free around the body now, but the throttle spinal is now weeping,. If I could actually see how it all goes back together it would be simple, but you can't see a damn thing... the spring loads "clunk" as I lifted the top when I first pulled it off gave me little hope of re-assembly without issues

Damn it .... Now Ang doesn't have a car to drive the kids to school in tomorrow, and I'm down in melbourne. It also weeping from another two injectors ... and the filter/primer completelly died ... I had to replace it to prime the pump. It *HAS* to be that diesel I've put in it .... all of this in the last 8weeks I've been using it .... Something really strange going on here. Why would I have problems all over the place at the same time within a few tanks of petrol from somewhere different

seeya,
Shane L.

Haakon said:

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars...1282 4294962464 4294962861 1514 903&silo=1011

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i reckon he should buy that floppygo and solve so many problems at once

Well I've spent hours looking for the tiny little bit of broken lever ..... and can't find the damn thing anywhere. It must be in the pump ..... meaning I'll know have to pull the pump off this heap of shit..... hopefully just up-ending the pump will have it drop out.

the problem is it appears I need special tools and a dial gauge to time the bloody pump. Does anyone know if it's possible to mark the position of the pump so I can just refit it in the identical spot ??

I should have just pulled the bloody thing off in the first place... .Then I wouldn't be having these problems as I would have been able to see what I was doing .... Gee's why are these heaps of junk so difficult to work on ........ If only it was something simple .... Like a DS23 ie BVH with A/C .... or a triple carby SM ..... At least they were made so mere mortals could access stuff to work on it.

this is how I've buggered it up .....



this is the throttle spindal, ... Note the spring loaded lever that moves the mechanical enrichment on the pump...



The top cover .. Note: The cold running enrichment lever with the two stops at the back. this car had thousands of dollars spent on it setting up the pump just before I purchased it ..... So you gotta love the fact they have adjust both the stop screw down so the cold start settings can never move .... ie: it's always running to rich when warm ... or too lean when cold ...... sigh .........



Note: how I've broken it after assembly. Am I incredibly unlucky for doing this .... or incredibly lucky that it appears to have broken and not damaged the pump at all with that big piece of metal floating loose it in .... I can't decide if it's luck or not



Here's where my problems arose. After I assembled to top of the pump, I rotated this lever back to the right position. However I must have moved it while the pump top was off, so it now rotated down onto the lever that's broken. Obviously it's incredibly fragile to being pressed down on and immediatly sheared off

I've fished around in that bloody pump for hours with magnets, searched everywhere around the engine bay for the broken off piece. It simply cannot be put back together until I find the broken bit, as if it's in the pump, it'll destroy the pump on startup ..... the only way to be 100% sure it's not in the pump is to pull the bloody thing off.

On the positive side it forces me to put a full seal kit through the pump (that it obviously now requires due to contaminated fuel).

SO: Can anyone guide me on pump timing .... Or do I need to find/purchase the tools ??

seeya,
Shane L.

what Haakon said!

DoubleChevron said:

Well I've spent hours looking for the tiny little bit of broken lever ..... and can't find the damn thing anywhere. It must be in the pump ..... meaning I'll know have to pull the pump off this heap of shit..... hopefully just up-ending the pump will have it drop out.

the problem is it appears I need special tools and a dial gauge to time the bloody pump. Does anyone know if it's possible to mark the position of the pump so I can just refit it in the identical spot ??

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As long as you don't rotate the engine or the pump, you should be able to do this. I think this is the procedure that is recommended in the Haynes comic.

Back to your original question. Other than two occasions in SA in 2009, I have never put other than Shell or BP brand diesel in the C5 and have never had any problems with fuel.

UFO said:

Back to your original question. Other than two occasions in SA in 2009, I have never put other than Shell or BP brand diesel in the C5 and have never had any problems with fuel.

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When my top seal started to leak, I found that filling up at the Caltex (usually around 2c cheaper per litre) would tend to promote leakage whilst the BP down the road would tend to stop it.

In the end the top seal got bad enough that it leaked wherever I filled it.

Biodiesel is good for stopping leakage, before SAFF went broke it was available reasonably without going too much out of my way and the B10 worked a treat for stopping a 504 I had with a leaky pump. You do have to keep using it though.

Looks like I'm just pulling the pump of the heap of junk.

From the XM list

I have done this twice, you dont need a special tool you need to fit
the pump loosely so you can just turn it, and with the engine running
you twist it to find 'the sweet spot'' where it sounds ''just right'',
then twist it a little bit, just a few mm forwards.

then go for a drive, if it feels wrong, move it a bit one way then the
other, no rocket science involved.

I did this to replace a pump bearing and another time to change from a
lucas to a bosch pump.

if you get it very wrong, the car lacks power except at a choosen rpm
when it flies, gives it a very sporty performance but wastes fuel...

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You can mark the pump against the mounting, but to be honest it doesn't seem
make that much difference on the xm.

Also I'd like to see proff that the russek settings are correct anyway as my
pump/engine number is not listed in the list.

Just set it by ear if you loose the factory setting, you may also find that
advancing the pump gives a bit more power, as the advance is very
conservative to help with emissions.

//Chris

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seeya,
Shane L.

Gee's I HATE this heap of shit car. I swear it must be THE WORST car even designed to work on. For starters to get the top off the pump was ludicrously difficult, alan keys, torx key ... normal bolts... All in bloody impossible to access positions. To get the pump off the heap of shit is even worse. Seriously, how are there any of these cars left in the world?? I certain any mechanic would tell you to p!$$ off if you pulled up there driveway in one.



first, when I tried to lift the nose of it... Just jack shot out from under with a big "bang" as was lifting it smashing the bumper and indicator .... WTF ?? I've never had something like that happen before. Gee' I hate this heap of shit. I seriouly can not ever think of a single time I've damaged one of my own car like this.



To remove the pump I have to turn the engine over and pin everything in the correct position... Alright we want the hole in the pump pulley at the bottom, and the cam at about 7:00pm ... So I turned the heavy piece of junk motor over and over and over and over and over and god damn over for ages.... NEVER did the holes come close .... AAARRRRhhhhhh



insert rod here .... Through the back of the bell housing into the flywheel (or in this case torque converter)







Surely there taking the p!$$ right ?? How in the flying f#$k are you supposed to get to that ?? Let me guess, remove every hose, the big housing off the head, the starter motor, oil filler tube, cruise control accellerator mechansim etc............ etc, etc, etc.... Gee's I HATE this heap of sh!t car.



THe "hand drawn" diagram ... the only bit they show is the bracket above that's in the middle of the block ....... nowhere near the damn bell housing .... There isn't a hope in hell they could ever get a picture of that bloody hole.







Typical "XM" type access to the timing belt area

I finally got the cam/pump pinned .... The hole aren't in the position shown in the manuals diagrams ...

Desperation ... Obviously you can't "pin" the crank.







Then I spent god damn hours trying to undo the 3 mounting nuts for the pump. Those thousands spent on this car to "time the pump" .... Absolutel bullshit. There isn't a god damn hope in hell they access the bolts to adjust the pump..... Bloody hours .... I just COULD NOT find, let alone access the lower bolt ... there will only be 3 as it'll pivot on the lower one when the top two are loosened.



Finally I managed to touch one (it only took me smashing 3 fingers and dislocating my wrist... Gee's I HATE this car). It appears this is how it's mounted. Not only did they put the lower bolt in an IMPOSSIBLE position, it's also recessed back into the pump housing ( Why in the f$@k would they do that).



Failure attempt 1 of getting at it... I guess I'll have to pull the hydraulic pump, alternator and maybe the A/C compressor off and see if I can get to that one bloody nut.... I HATE THIS CAR.

seeya,
Shane L.

Shane,
Citroën Mechanical Procedures
Rule 1
There is no short cut to the obvious removal of anything.
Rule 2
Remove everything which obscures vision or physical access and everything else within a comfortable perimeter.
Rule 3
Do not deviate from the first two rules.

I do have a reciprocating saw ... You mean cut the whole front end of the heap of shit right ?

the flywheel pin goes under the starter motor

you will never see it, you will never really know where it goes but if you stick a long shank 6mm allen key under the starter and fumble around (bit like loosing virginity ) you will find it will fall into a hole

then by slowly turning the engine over the peg will fall in the rest of the way

you need to pin the crank, sorry

DoubleChevron said:

I do have a reciprocating saw ... You mean cut the whole front end of the heap of shit right ?

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G'day,
when in doubt, remove everything that is in the way. Plan ahead...and allow plenty of time.

There is old adage about replacing the front pads on a bike. Take one tin of beer, drink it, place the empty tin between the grip and the lever. Do not touch it. Replace the pads and so on...
Patience is everything.

I am exhausted just reading this. I'm calling an ambulance and getting you straight to hospital. I think you need a week of complete bed rest.

AF Group Hug: "It will be OK Shane"....