stater motor/solenoid mi16

I have read as many threads as I can on this topic. My starter is turning but not engaging properly. It still starts the car but its getting worse. Started off a few months ago as a bumping noise after the engine fired up, implying it wasn't withdrawing from the flywheel properly. Now it struggles to engage and makes noise etc.

Alan I can't find any Wilson plug anywhere. I've tried to trace the wiring from the battery but its difficult. Also its bloody hard to get at. I've taken something off the inlet manifold and am trying to peek in through one of the gaps in the inlet manifold. Is the 'smaller cyclinder on top' the solenoid , sitting directly above the main starter motor? I'm going to try looking at the contacts on it.

Any help/advice appreciated.

Thanks
Greg

starter

OK the positive bit of the solenoid seems to have a nut on it? correct? whats the other little wire coming from a little tab? an earth?

this thing is bloody hard to work on. is it worth removing the inlet manifold? i'm doubting it. i probly wouildn't be able to put evrything back together anyway.

off to experiment more with a multi meter.

It's a job that needs to be done once, and done correctly. I have a perfectly good solenoid at home because I misdiagnosed the probem.

The problem is more than likely the ignition switch. Yes, where you put the key in. A wire goes direct from there to the solenoid. As the switch contacts wear, they can no longer supply enough current to energise the solenoid. The job of the solenoid is to energise the starter motor.

The large battery wire connects to the solenoid. You'll see the other wire near there that comes from the switch.

The starter motor may well be stuffed but while you've got the inlet manifold off , fit a 30A relay between the switch and the solenoid. I made the mistake of mounting the relay near the back of the solenoid. Once it got hot it failed. When cold, it was fine. So off came the inlet manifold again.

The place to mount the relay is in the relay box! That's the black plastic box near the RH top engine mount. Run the wires in the loom back under the manifold and it all looks 100% original.

You'll need to buy a pair of inlet manifold gaskets, but it's otherwise plain sailing.

That makes good sense Peter. What kind of current are we talking for the solenoid starter switch? less than 30A you reckon? Reason I ask is its not exactly a very thick wire which runs to it. Fitting a relay sounds like a good idea and has been reccomended by others.

Now I just have to try and trace where this wire runs to from the actual sloenoid. I'm not going to take the inlet manifold off as I think its over my head.


That little wire I referred to in my first post is actually the solenoid energiser connecting wire, which becomes live when you turn the key to the start position.

Back to the car

The solenoid wire, 46 blue, can be traced back to the 2 pin brown connector, behind the LH headlight. There's also two large connectors there, coloured black and brown. You could mount the solenoid over there.

found it

Peter, I can't thank you enough for that info. After about an hour of looking through haystacks it was a relief to look at your post, then head outside and find the wire straight away.

I have also determined from what direction that blue wire gets its current.

Now, I basically have enough INFORMATION to make a 3 way relay. I'm just wondering about how to go about it.

Ok here's my theory so far.

First I need to buy a 30A normally OPEN relay?

Ok so that blue wire you referred to can be cut say a few cm from the connector, then that same end connected to the energising part of the relay?

I then run say a 20A wire from the battery to the relay.

Then finally connect the other cut end of the original wire that runs to the solenoid to the remaining relay terminal?


How does that sound?

Also I have checked the voltage at the end of the solenoid energising wire. 18V, so no worries there. It stands to reason current flow could be the problem, adding weight to Peter T's theory. Hopefully this relay idea works.

30A, normally open relay, like headlight or horn.

I made the relay, unfortunately the problem has not changed! Its a bit strange, the starter engages every time, but there is a very loud noise which comes and the starter motor does not seem to be turning as it should. The noise is definitely not a grinding of gear cogs though, which is good.

I think I need a new starter motor.

Thanks for your help Peter, couldn't have made that relay without that info.

Greg

I ha d a similar problem with my starter. its interesting to see the posts re the relay and I will look into this solution. If you need to change the starter some tips. You really need to take the inlet manifold off, so you need a new gasket. No real problems here but watch for cracked, dry, and brittle oil breather hoses which you are highly likely to damage. Only genuine parts were available at considerable cost ( I think around 150). Another potentially major problem was when I turned the injector rail out of the way I stressed the fuel line which subsequently cracked and allowed a fine stream of fuel to squirt all over the exhaust manifold!!!!!. replacing that was a joke, as normal lines couldnt handle the heat and so after two les expensive failures another genuine bit at triple cost was needed, So in essence, be very careful. Its not a difficult job but like all things Mi16, potential for major expense is lurking. Cheers greg

thanks for that Greg, and you have a good name.

I've been driving the car all week and still no change. sometimes it is normal, maybe 1/5 times it makes no strange noise whatsoever. A family friend who is a mechanical engineer but not a mechanic thought maybe the main bearing may be on its way out? I should be taking it to a mechanic within a week so i'll see what he reckons.

Thanks for the advice about changing it. Yes I can see no way around taking the inlet off.

Some people have recommended getting the brushes etc reconditioned rather than getting a new starter motor if that is what the problem is. A new starter motor is about $225 not inc GST which I thought was actually pretty reasonable.