Dauphine Race Car Number 2

Ross · Nov 9, 2004

I found it in a shed in Wellington, it had been in storage since 1971

It was covered in dents and scatches from things being stored on it for many years but the shell was almost rust free

So I have started on building another Dauphine race car. I am hoping it will be lighter and stiffer than number 1 and, as I will be using an R17 based motor and R16tx 5 speed box, I am hoping it will be faster than number 1.

First job was to get some mates around and strip the shell completely (and I mean completely) which we achieved in one day.

Second job was to build a rotisserie jig so I could work on the underneath easily (see photos)

Next job is to remove the front cross member and replace with a R8/R10 one. They are stonger and have the correct mountings for the longer top arms.

After that I will send it off for either dry stripping or chemical dipping and then off to have a roll cage fitted.

Could take a while - I think probably 2 years unless something happens to number 1 in which case it will get fast tracked.

Ross :renault:

Europa · Nov 9, 2004

It wasn't worth restoring?

Ross · Nov 10, 2004

Europa said:
It wasn't worth restoring?

Yes definitely but then I wouldnt have a shell for the new race car

My conscience is somewhat cleared by the fact that we have got a standard Dauphine as well that we are slowly restoring.

Yes that does mean we have 3 Dauphines in the family :crazy:

Ross :renault:

Ray Bell · Nov 10, 2004

In what condition was the original raced?

Has it no value as an original race car?

Simon · Nov 10, 2004

The new shell looks like it would make a good Monte Carlo winner replica, it even looks very nearly the same colour.

Ross · Nov 11, 2004

Ray Bell said:
In what condition was the original raced?

Has it no value as an original race car?

I spent 2.5 years restoring number 1 so it was in very good condition when I started racing about 3 years ago.

However race miles certainly take their toll and it is starting to look decidedly second hand lately. The most worrying thing is the cracking which is worst around the A pillar, base of the windscreen, C pillar where it joins the body and front inner guards around the suspension area. I guess its a combination of stiff suspension and hard driving.

I hope to overcome alot of this cracking in the new shell by building a roll cage that goes from the front suspension cross member to the rear suspension subframe and tied into the A and B pillars and the rear parcel shelf. Maybe I will even weld in the back doors for more rigidity.

Dauphines have always been poor for torsional rigidity and when you start putting 120-150hp in the tail and high cornering stresses I suppose you have to expect problems.

Ross :renault:

Simon · Nov 11, 2004

They sound like similar type stress cracks in hard used R8’s and 10’s. Cracks at the top of the A and C pillars, base of the A pillar. I’m just wondering if it would also be worth fabricating reinforcements similar to the R1135 8G in those locations which may, in conjunction with the roll cage, reduce the likelihood of stress cracks in those areas. Also the poor road version reinforcement for the R8G/10 on the rear inner wheel arch above the rear cross member may help spread the load in that area too.

kiwia110 · Nov 13, 2004

Box etc

Hi Ross, just a thought, why 16 box? Surely Fuego is easier (cheaper) to find? If there is a reason I would like to know. Also how do you do a conversion from the front engine type box to swing axle? Keep it up.

Frans · Nov 13, 2004

16 Box

Hi kiwia110,
The Fuego box is behind the engine as seen from the front of the car. That means you will have to change the diff around to the other side and that can't be done because the pinion and diff is not in the same line. ie the pinion bearing and diff carrier bearings is in different levels. I've heard of someone that turned the gearbox upside down.( do'nt know if it was Reno or some other make) but then lubrication could become a problem. I started this mod on my Caravelle back in South Africa but gave it up because of this 4 gears in reverse and 1 forward. I worked something out to retain the Caravelle swing arms but I can tell you that it is not easy. It also meant that the swing arms would have been substantially shorter and that would make the camber change so much more because of the shorter radius.
Ross has the right idea, we will test this 16TS box as it is now and if it works well we will change it to a 16TX box for the 5th gear.

kiwia110 · Nov 14, 2004

Gbox

Hi Frans and others, I am not disputing what you say Frans, but does anyone know what was done to 8 and 10 boxes when thay were used in Formula fords?
Obviously the difficulty of multi reverse , 1 forward would have initially been there and had to be overcome. I know that VW boxes can have the crownwheel transposed, but also know that Renault boxes were used.

Europa · Nov 14, 2004

I have seen copies of Renault competition documentation which describes the procedure for fitting the gearbox upside down - things like blocking the vent etc etc.

Simon · Nov 14, 2004

It is probably a bit academic turning a gearbox upside down for a road car, the engine would end up too low to be really useful, it would look like a silhouette racer, probably not a bad thing in a way

. I like the idea of using the 16TX CW&P in the 10 casing, with probably the close ratios from a 365 gearbox from a 17TS/G.

Another thought, given the old money is nearly no object line. How difficult would it be to convert the swing axles of say a Dauphine/8/10 to an independent suspension rear end of a late model A110 in conjunction with a 16TX or 5 Gordini casing. It would sort of take away some of the fun(?) of having a swing axle rear end but would be an interesting conversion nonetheless. Probably just cheaper just to buy a late model A110

Ross · Jun 1, 2005

Update Number 2

Time for an update on the new race car

As usual progress has been slower than hoped for but I have completed a few mile-stones

1. All the underseal has been removed, about 3 buckets full in all

2. The rear radius arm mounts have been welded in

3. The front cross member has been removed and a R8 one welded in.

I spent a bit of time on the R8 cross member before installing it strenghtening it up where I thought it needed it.

I have attached photos of the above however they are a bit hard to understand.

Next job is the roll cage. I thought I might have a go at doing it myself. I have talked to a couple of guys who built there own and it doesnt seem too complicated so I will speak to Motorsport NZ and see what they say.

I have obtained a couple of big steel beams which i will bolt the shell down to while welding in the cage so that the shell will be square and true. It is amazing how much flex there is in a bare shell.

briz205 · Jun 1, 2005

sounds good, looks like I'll have to come around and see things renos.

Nick

supo · Jun 1, 2005

Ross,

The car looks great & it looks like you're making good progress, I wish I had the time to follow along with my own car, a few questions:

1) What are you using to remove the underseal?
2) Do you have progessive pictures of the front cross member going in?, I
am considering doing this as well (at your suggestion)
3) Your rotisserie looks a little precarious, are the bases attached to floor in
any fashion? I was going to run poles from the floor to the ceiling for my
rotisserie but it looks like that may be overkill.
4) Any closeup's of the work you did to the front cross member before
installation?

Can't wait to see roll cage & other improvements you have in store.

Scott

Ross · Jun 2, 2005

Hi Scott

1. I removed the underseal with an electric hot air gun and a scraper, sounds like hard work but it wasnt too bad.

2. No other pics Im sorry

3. The rotissorie is quite flimsy but the bare shell only weighs about 150kg (2 people can easily pick it up) so no need to go for overkill.

4. No other pics Im sorry

I can take some more photos if you like Scott and e-mail them directly to you.

supo · Jun 2, 2005

Ross said:
Hi Scott

1. I removed the underseal with an electric hot air gun and a scraper, sounds like hard work but it wasnt too bad.

2. No other pics Im sorry

3. The rotissorie is quite flimsy but the bare shell only weighs about 150kg (2 people can easily pick it up) so no need to go for overkill.

4. No other pics Im sorry

I can take some more photos if you like Scott and e-mail them directly to you.

That would be great Ross if you could do that, I hate to be a pest but there so little info out there & you're doing almost exactly what I would like to do, so if you could I would greatly apreciate it. Do you still have my e-mail address?
Look forward to more on the "Race car number 2"

Thanks,
Scott

Stuey · Jun 2, 2005

Thanks Ross - we're as interested as hell here, so keep us up to date please!

Stuey

Graelin · Jun 3, 2005

As above

Yes Ross our silence does not mean we are not following this with great interest and admiration.

Graelin

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