Peugeot 604 info

Hi guys,

Would I be able to get some info on what to look out for when checking out a 604?
My brother's been looking for a car since he's going to need one to get to uni/TAFE (whatever he gets into). The other day we drove past a nice looking 604, he thought he could see himself driving one so we jotted down the number and I called the guy this afternoon.

It turns out the guy (who sounds fairly senior) had it for 15 years and is now selling since he's bought himself a smaller car (hopefully also something French...). Anyway it's a 1978 model, it's done 235,000 kms (90,000 kms in the time he's had it) it's been regularly serviced, he's had the engine redone (had the liners out, fixed a head gasket problem, don't know what else - that's all I understood), replaced the auto transmission, and he says there's no leaks anywhere. There's a bit of rust on the bottom of one door and the only thing not working is the aircon.

It's a nice metallic green colour and from the outside the car looks immaculate. He's asking $3200 but he's willing to take offers.

Does this sound like a reasonable price?
Also what are they like to maintain and to get parts for? What about their handling and performance?

Thanks in advance for your help, it looks like our driveway might soon be home to TWO frogs.


Cheers,
Richard

i could turn this into a long long reply
there are a few things to look out for but generally most 604's still on the road have had most of the niggly little bits fixed up on them so they are generally fairly safe to buy
a few questions you need to ask him
1 - has the mechanical fuel pump been replaced with an electric unit ?
2 - when the engine was done was the oil gallery modified in the left hand head ?

things to look for
1 - rust in sunroof
2 - rust in front guards
3 - rust around windscreen
4 - make sure all electrics are working correctly
5 - ensure the auto picks up reverse and drive between 1.5 and 2 secs any more than this and it needs work
now for parts
most are available
rubber seals around the roof can leak and are available through arthur rubber in wagga wagga
they hadle like a typical pug of that era and so long as it has the right torque converter in it they take off pretty well and cruise with ease
bieng a 78 model it is possible that it will have a 3.77 diff in it depending on what part of 78 it was thrown together or if it's made in france and shipped out model
if it has a grey engine bay it is assembled over seas and shipped out, body colour engine bay is assembled here
if you want to have a chat about 604's give me a call on 0427 756 851

Thanks for the advice, and for letting me give you a call, I shouldn't need to just yet.

We're taking a look at it next week so I'll keep in mind the things that you suggested.

a few questions you need to ask him
1 - has the mechanical fuel pump been replaced with an electric unit ?
2 - when the engine was done was the oil gallery modified in the left hand head ?

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What if they haven't? Are these major problems?

I'll let you know how the test drive goes, I might have some more questions to ask you then.

Cheers,
Richard

I'll leave the oil gallery question to pugrambo... I know nothing of that.

As for the fuel pump, the original sits at the back of the left bank head. When it (almost inevitably) starts to weep round the diaphragm the petrol drips onto the hose at that end of the pipe that takes off the heater water from the heads... it joins the rear of the heads together.

Of course, as you sit wistfully in the car cruising at 120kmh, this isn't terribly obvious to you. It only comes to notice when the temp gauge goes momentarily off the clock, then subsides again as all coolant is lost as the hose has broken having been prematurely perished by the petrol.

Then again, he might mean the bit about the tits for the fuel lines falling out and bathing the engine in petrol ready for a sudden fire?

Ray Bell:


Then again, he might mean the bit about the tits for the fuel lines falling out and bathing the engine in petrol ready for a sudden fire?

Click to expand...

yes that's right
more 604's have died of a fire than have boiled from a fuel leak
funnily enough the mechanical pump is the same as a renault 16 item
but what happens is the rubber fuel line attaches to the pump via a brass/metal fitting into an alloy pump
as the pump gets warm from the engine the alloy expands faster than the fitting and hence falls out spraying a nice pattern of fuel over the hot engine and exhaust
voila instant bonfire
99% of 604's that survive today have had the mechanical pump removed or if they are still fitted have been modified
i prefer fitting an electric pump
let us know how you go with it
happy to answer any Q's you have about the car
also the left hand head oil gallery if it hasn't been modified only means that the left hand camshaft tends to wear out before time
also just listen closely for any timing chain noise but by the sounds of it i don't think the old fella would have been driving it hard enough to stress the chains that much
normal driving the chains will last around 200,000km's or more but remember they are awfully long and only a single row chain
i plan on trying to modify this problem when the weather cools down a little which may of interest to many PRV V6 owners

Hmmm... eek! I'll take a closer look at the fuel pump when I see the car tomorrow.

I had to call him again to confirm the time so I took the opportunity to ask him about the fuel pump and oil gallery issues, he couldn't really answer but he said the whole engine was taken out mainly to fix a water leak in the bottom seal, but a lot of other work was also done, including replacing the main bearings. He did it about 7-8 years ago at Peugeot specialist in Surrey Hills (Graham Birrell perhaps?), so I assume they would have known about the problem areas and carried out the necessary modifications.

Anyway I'll check it all out tomorrow and let you know how it goes.

cheers!
Richard

With regard to the timing chain issue...

Owen Wuillemin remembers all this with horror... he had two of these cars and twice had chains break. The first, I think, was at 160,000kms... so he made a note with the second one that he'd replace it at 140,000.

It broke before he got to it, but I think he was just over the 140,000.

But he also said that he thought that the type of change from the box (ie. more or less severe) might have had something to do with it.

If you're planning to fit a double row chain, I think I sussed out once before that there is one that fits. Not sure about that, I may be getting confused with the 304 engine, anyway Renold make the chain in bulk.

OK then, looked at the car yesterday evening and the major thing that concerns me is the rust. There's quite a few patches of it - largish patches on the bottom corners of both front doors, bottom of driver's side front guard, small patch on the bonnet, inside the bootlid around the latch, specks under the roof where the sunroof opens, but biggest of all is a hand-sized patch on the roof near the sunroof opening above the front passenger door. He said he had it fixed 3 times but the rust keeps coming through.

Other than the rust, the car's in reasonably good shape, the interior is OK, leather still good but the driver's seat is a bit shabby. He had a sheepskin cover over it. All electrics were working except for the passenger front window. Aircon wasn't cooling either.

Like he said, the car seems to be mechanically good. I didn't notice any unusual noises, timing chain seemed OK. It did blow a bit of smoke on start up, and when we went for a drive, my mum who stayed behind said it was blowing smoke as we went down the road. It drove quite nicely, the engine was responsive and didn't make any strange sounds as I floored it. Transmission was fine, he did say he had it replaced not long ago. The brakes and suspension were great. Steering is lighter than my 505 GTi, but still has feel.

I did see a drop of oil fall from I believe the transmission after we got back. I didn't see any other leaks though. Despite being regularly serviced (so he says) the engine oil seemed a funny colour, kind of greyish, not milky like there's water in it, but like a clear grey. He said it was about due for an oil change... He didn't know much about the fuel pump, it looked quite clean and the fuel hoses seemed to be new around it, so it could have been modified.

He seems to have spent a bit of money on it to keep it going, cost him around $5000 to get the motor done, add to that the rust work, regular servicing for 15 years, he's even got a proper dash mat for it. He's also got the original manuals and a workshop manual. FYI the engine bay is grey, so it's an imported model.

So that's about it. I'm a bit apprehensive about getting it - the rust seems like an expensive problem, and I don't know if the little smoke it blows now could become a more major issue later on. I'd probably be doing most of the servicing myself, my brother who will mostly drive the car is not really mechanically minded, and doesn't really have unlimited funds to fix the rust problems. I'm thinking we'll give it a miss.

Cheers,
Richard

the rust seems to be something that the series 1's had more trouble with then the series 2's
why i don't know as they are essentially the same car
the oil drip could have either been the tranny cooling line or power steering
both of which are prone to leak
tranny one is a simple fix
power steering one depends on where the leak is as to how simple it is to fix
the smoke could have been dependant on when the oil was last changed but this is something you can't really tell
from the sounds of the rust though it's not a $3000 motor car
604's have to have the drains nice and clean all the time to drain away water
front guards are where their main problem is as they seem to accumulate dirt and water there

Thanks for the info, it is a shame about the rust, other than that, it seems a pretty reasonable car. If I had the time to learn how to do good rust repairs and if the car could be off the road for a few weeks, then I'd consider getting it, but I don't really have the time, and there isn't much money lying around to get it done properly by someone else. Bugger...

Richard

I just refound this thread.
As I have just bought one of the very first made 604s and as it is quite low mileage (45000 miles), I need to know what this left hand oil gallery mod is.
Can anyone provide more info?

From the Kia website:

Kia has been providing the world with exciting cars for over six decades. Founded in 1944 as Kyungsung Precision Industry, Kia is currently Korea's second largest car manufacturer and it’s(sic) oldest. From the company's production of Korea's first domestic bicycle, Kia moved on to producing Korea's first motorcycle and the country's first truck. Kia then became the first company in Korea to locally produce petrol car engines and the first domestic diesel engine. In 1979, the quality of Kia's car production was recognised when two of the world's leading European car makers chose Kia to build their 'range topper' models on their behalf - the Peugeot 604 and Fiat 132.

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Did these 604's remain in Korea, or did we receive any?

Dave

No ideas?

those of us lucky enough to own 604's are trying to forget that KIA ever had a hand in them :roflmao:

Memories

Ah the memories!

I had a 604 back in about 1987 or so. I was a beautiful sort of copper bronze mixed with a little bit of Olive metallic colour. It had light tan leather seats that were the most comfortable things south of a DS23 Pallas!

I seem to remember that the engine was used by Peugeot and Volvo (264) and Renault (R30).....although I think that each company used the basic alloy engine and added its own quirks.

I remember the car as an extremely comfortable soft riding effortless car. I think it had a single throat carby and a double throat behind it on the manifold....and that it used to stop with out warning....just anywhere. no one was able to find out why or what caused it but if you waited 2 or 3 minutes it would start and run ...sometimes for months until it happened again.

If your brother is not well healed let me tell you this....the next car I bought after the 604 in the end of 1989 was a 440 cubic inch chrysler engined Jensen Interceptor...and it couldn't use as much fuel as the 604! Apparently a lot of folk have swapped out the carbs since.

Mark M

68 404 said:

No ideas?

Click to expand...

Sorry, didn't see this earlier.

The 604s were assembled in Korea by Asia Motors, from 1979 to 1989. Asia Motors was owned about 30% by Kia at the time (and were bought out completely in 1999), and the cars were badged as the Kia Peugeot 604. They looked the same as in the rest of the world, as most of the parts (including the entire drivetrain) were shipped complete from France. There was some reciprocal parts sharing where some Korean parts were used in the rest of the world's 604s.

They were only for the Korean market, I doubt there would have been any made it here.

Can anyone read really small Korean?

mmnarelle said:

Ah the memories!

I had a 604 back in about 1987 or so. I was a beautiful sort of copper bronze mixed with a little bit of Olive metallic colour. It had light tan leather seats that were the most comfortable things south of a DS23 Pallas!

I seem to remember that the engine was used by Peugeot and Volvo (264) and Renault (R30).....although I think that each company used the basic alloy engine and added its own quirks.

I remember the car as an extremely comfortable soft riding effortless car. I think it had a single throat carby and a double throat behind it on the manifold....and that it used to stop with out warning....just anywhere. no one was able to find out why or what caused it but if you waited 2 or 3 minutes it would start and run ...sometimes for months until it happened again.

If your brother is not well healed let me tell you this....the next car I bought after the 604 in the end of 1989 was a 440 cubic inch chrysler engined Jensen Interceptor...and it couldn't use as much fuel as the 604! Apparently a lot of folk have swapped out the carbs since.

Mark M

Click to expand...

apparently you never found anyone who could tune the car properly

the original setup when right allowed the 604 to cruise at 180km/h and return better than 20mpg

this was tested by peugeot on their test track and if i find time and dig hard enough through the crap on my desk i am sure to find the blurb that confirms this

don't worry, you were just one of the many that had their car touched and fiddled with by monkey's

the same monkey's were trained on stuffing up TI's before that

yeah but what is the "left hand oil gallery mod"?

Demannu said:

Sorry, didn't see this earlier.

The 604s were assembled in Korea by Asia Motors, from 1979 to 1989. Asia Motors was owned about 30% by Kia at the time (and were bought out completely in 1999), and the cars were badged as the Kia Peugeot 604. They looked the same as in the rest of the world, as most of the parts (including the entire drivetrain) were shipped complete from France. There was some reciprocal parts sharing where some Korean parts were used in the rest of the world's 604s.

They were only for the Korean market, I doubt there would have been any made it here.

Can anyone read really small Korean?

Click to expand...

Interesting

Thanks for the info!

Dave

As far as I am concerned my 604 was 'assembled" downunder...bayswater to be exact...



dino