Scenic 2003 transmission - stuck in second

[hitmouse]

I have a 2003 Scenic Expression Auto, now edging up to 130K with regular servicing.

Mid last year, I noticed that it would get stuck in second gear if I couldn't get up to speed within a couple of minutes of commencing a journey. Living in central Sydney, there's little chance of that ever happening :-).

If I stopped and restarted the engine, then I could go again. A couple months after that the problem became more frequent and was accompanied by the transmission warning light (it took ages to identify that in the manual!!). I took it into my dealer in November and they read the codes and did some fixes (not in front of me right now, but the cost was in order of hundreds of dollars).

Everything was right as rain for the next month until I was out on the highway and noticed that the problem was recurring when I was on long slow uphill stretches (F3 towards Gosford). Stopping and restarting again fixed the problem temporarily.

I took the car back in last week to the dealer and they basically charged me $150 to say they didn't know, and that I was possibly up for $6000 for a new transmission, and that it would take 4 weeks or so to source one from France.

Since $6K is probably more than the car's worth and I coughed up $3K for new timing cable and associated work in January, I'm not exactly leaping at the idea.

Any suggestions?

[Fordman]

Assuming similarity to most other cars on the market, the auto is probably going into "limp home" mode because it has detected a fault. In limp home mode it probably is remaining in one gear, thats how it is designed. Switching off the ignition clears the computer, and as long as the fault was only temporary, when restarted it drives ok. So the fault is probably electric/electronic, not mechanical (ie, not bands or clutches).

I had a very similar experience with a Falcon a few years ago, the problem was there when cold, and stayed in limp home mode (3rd gear only). As it warmed up I could clear the fault with a restart, and ok for rest of the day. Gradually got worse, had to go further and further before I could clear it. Diagnosed by taking resistance readings of transmission solenoids from external plug connection (when cold), and confirmed by computer diagnostic check, as a particular solenoid inside the transmission. Because it had been fairly well diagnosed, my mechanic was able to go straight to it and replaced that solenoid, and serviced the trans, for about $300.

Unfortunately, even the dealers are not always clever enough to understand their diagnostic tools. My suggestion would be to try someone else, either another dealer, or a known Renault specialist with the right equipment. Even a good Euro transmission repair shop may be good.

I suspect there is not major damage, or it would fault continuously, but something electronic which just needs to be pin-pointed.

One would hope that your dealer has already done this, but the first course of action with electronic auto trans faults, is to get under the bonnet, and carefully pull off any connectors into the gearbox, "exercise" them a few times to clean the contact pins, and give it a go. If this creates a temporary fix, then you know where the problem is and it may be permanently fixed with a bit of lubrication on the pins to stop corrosion.

I hope it is not too serious - I've got the same box in our car!

Cheers.

[petercee]

i presume its got the DPO transmission, sounds very much like its in limp mode, and thats not good news im afraid, i would have thought over there you would have a transmission specialist capable of reconditioning it for around 2 grand, i see on our trademe a company in Auckland doing the DPO for 2 grand on exchange. dont know if its any good though, but they do offer a waranty. fragile litle beasts arent they, my transmission, before i sold it, was just starting to creep, that is in park, it felt like it hadnt fully freed it self.i dont believe second hand is the answer, unless its done low mileage, as these autos as i said are pretty fragile things once over the 100,000ks. i hope it all works out okay

[Haakon]

Surprised there has not been more responses. Short version is find a new mechanic - even the dealers should be able to source a reco unit locally, and saying "ex france, 6grand" is just lazy.... They are not that rare a car!!

Anyway, a rebuild (at worst case, assuming its not just dodgy connections or a solenoid) is going a long way short of 6 grand! Manuel Automatics in Melbourne is probably a good place to start looking for a good rebuild.

Or there is a fairly good chance of finding a low kms s/h unit - if the kms are low enough and the price is right it could be an easy option. Ask Dave at French Connection.

[JohnW]

Originally Posted by Fordman

Assuming similarity to most other cars on the market, the auto is probably going into "limp home" mode because it has detected a fault. In limp home mode it probably is remaining in one gear, thats how it is designed. Switching off the ignition clears the computer, and as long as the fault was only temporary, when restarted it drives ok. So the fault is probably electric/electronic, not mechanical (ie, not bands or clutches).

I had a very similar experience with a Falcon a few years ago, the problem was there when cold, and stayed in limp home mode (3rd gear only). As it warmed up I could clear the fault with a restart, and ok for rest of the day. Gradually got worse, had to go further and further before I could clear it. Diagnosed by taking resistance readings of transmission solenoids from external plug connection (when cold), and confirmed by computer diagnostic check, as a particular solenoid inside the transmission. Because it had been fairly well diagnosed, my mechanic was able to go straight to it and replaced that solenoid, and serviced the trans, for about $300.

Unfortunately, even the dealers are not always clever enough to understand their diagnostic tools. My suggestion would be to try someone else, either another dealer, or a known Renault specialist with the right equipment. Even a good Euro transmission repair shop may be good.

I suspect there is not major damage, or it would fault continuously, but something electronic which just needs to be pin-pointed.

One would hope that your dealer has already done this, but the first course of action with electronic auto trans faults, is to get under the bonnet, and carefully pull off any connectors into the gearbox, "exercise" them a few times to clean the contact pins, and give it a go. If this creates a temporary fix, then you know where the problem is and it may be permanently fixed with a bit of lubrication on the pins to stop corrosion.

I hope it is not too serious - I've got the same box in our car!

Cheers.

So glad you are still around!! Catch you at the next FCD in Perth perhaps. I agree with your comments, FWIW. Good for people to understand there are generic issues with modern transmissions with electronics. Clever systems for sure, but the increased complexity has its cost. Pity the dealers aren't always smartened up in parallel with the transmissions.

[hitmouse]

I'd say it's beyond limp home now, as restarting the ignition no longer resets the problem. I imagine if the fixes that worked in November no longer work then exercising a few connectors is no longer viable.

My dealer (Rick Damelian Leichhardt) has probably one of the biggest Renault repair shops around and have usually treated me fairly. I also went via an NRMA service centre to a transmission specialist. The latter quoted $4K+

Out of curiosity, is it feasible to have it converted from auto to manual? It may be too late to consider anything major as I'm intending to move o/s in a few months and have to work out the best way to offload the Scenic.

I do have a bit of an emotional attachment to it, as it's probably one of the most travelled cars in the world. I shipped it over to Europe 5 years ago and drove it through 30 countries. It's been from the bottom of Tasmania to Nordkapp, way above the Arctic Circle. The only serious problems it's ever developed seem to have been within an hour's drive of Sydney....

[Haakon]

Wow! That's a car worth fixing for sure I still wish I'd brought home my reno wagon I bought in London for my euro travels - wasn't really worth anything, but lots of sentimental value. Was a good car...

You might be lucky and find a low km s/h one? But whatever you do, ignore the "sealed for life" maintenence nonsense Renault say and the new one will last longer than 130K km.

[petercee]

in short, id say quit it and then thank god for convincing you not to buy another one, despite the pro comments in this forum, who will try and get u to believe theres not a problem with renault automatics, go into the UK renault forum, and you will probably spend several days reading other owners opinions on these crappy transmissions, i will tell you a story, (a true one) back in the 70s i was in the Army in Singapore, and of course we used to buy new cars to take back home, the car i bought was a lemon, but talking to all the other guys with same car, no, never had a problem, one day i went into the agent, to sort out some issues, and there were 3 of my friends cars in there, i said how come im having problems, but not these guys, the servive manager grinned, and led me over to the cars, there they were same problem, and i was told they to were sick of them, i guess the morale of this is, some people just cant bear to tell the world how bad their selection of car was, rather tell fibs and pretend they are a good brand, might affect the resale value if people found out the truth eh. get rid of it, i did after blowing 2 pistons at 145000ks.

[Haakon]

No one said they were perfect, just not as bad as some make out.

Point is this one has impressive sentimental value and they are not that expensive to repair.

[N5GTi6]

I've never been in the army, so I'm not aware of the macho behaviour there around creating a false facade, but I have had a 2003 Scenic, and it was a fantastic car.

As others have said here - get a more enlightened opinion about the gearbox - it's just too easy to say it needs a big fix - lots of money to be made from that, rather than try and find the little fix which is all it might need. 130K isn't huge K's surely, but you do need to find someone other than a dealer workshop.

Cheers

Justin