Re-silvering old headlights on the cheap

Hi Chris,

If you are using silicone make sure it is neutral cure - any acid residue from the normal silicone will corrode right through the reflectors. Might be worth looking at the high temp stuff they use for oxygen sensors, though it's not cheap.

I will be interested in your results, as my GS lights are not that good!

Paul
 
GreenBlood said:
HKP = Chris, If you drop by work (25 Burke St. Woolloongabba) I can give you some auto-grade adhesive, I am pretty sure it will withstand the heat in a headlight housing.

Cheers
GB = Chris :wink2:
Click to expand...
Thanks Chris. If and hopefully when I drop by, I'll have to bring the metal film with me so you can OK it's use with that adhesive, as I'd hate to stick it on and come back hlf an hour later and see a shriveled mess because the stuff 'melted' the film. It's drom the "recycled garbage" place at West End. Have you ever been there, it is amazing. Thread needed for it alone.
Cheers mate.
 
chris said:
One day soon I shall lash out and update the bulbs from the candle-bright 40W standard jobbies (I think the high-beam halogens might be as bright as 55W actually).
Click to expand...

Just for fun try putting a 60 watt halogen globe in as the main globe rather than the stock 40 watt globe on one headlight, and the re-silvered repair on the other headlight (with 60 watt main globe and 55 watt H1 globe for the kangaroo). I reckon you will get a similar output of light just from replacing the old 40 watt globes and save silicone and cut fingers from the repair.

Don’t go ludicrous with the wattage though, as the silvering then starts to boil off the actual metal reflector from the heat (this may not happen on a GS light like it does on the top of a a Renault 12/15/16 light though because of the GS light shape). 60-80 watts seems to be a reasonable compromise for the main globe.

My experience comes from a Cibie Kangaroo equipped Renault 12. Originally it had the stock 40 watt globes with H1 halogens in the kangaroo. The kangaroo reflectors were in good nick at the time, then I replaced the stock main globes with 60 watt halogen, which effectively killed the silvering on the kangaroos fairly quickly, but the lights were better. I then obtained some new Cibie headlights which took H4 base halogen globes but had no kangaroo light. With 60 watt globes, the output of light from these I reckon was fairly similar to when I changed to halogen globes with the original lights, penetration was better, but it seemed to lose the fill in effect of the kangaroos.

I’d say Renault thought the same thing too, as on the later (overseas) models they replaced the kangaroos with the non kangaroo but halogen bulb equipped lights.
 
Simon,

It sounds like maybe the wiring is different? On a GS the "kangaroo" reflectors are the high beams, with the main bulb only active for dipped beam (it's possible to change this of course). Also the main bulb has a great big base... I haven't seen a halogen with the same mounting.

I only need to do one headlight anyway, and not urgently, hence the fiddling. The other one is like new.

The hands-down best GS lights are the late-70s setups with 4 round lights. 4 new sealed beams sets you back about $100 for a total of 320W on high beam -- enough to take the paint off road signs and fry incoming moths :D I don't think they'll fit in a series one front though, and I've got a bit of a bee in my bonnet about not butchering this car.

Chris
 
chris said:
It sounds like maybe the wiring is different? On a GS the "kangaroo" reflectors are the high beams, with the main bulb only active for dipped beam (it's possible to change this of course). Also the main bulb has a great big base... I haven't seen a halogen with the same mounting.
Click to expand...

Ooo, it does sound like it is a different thing. The 12 has the normal double dipping globe, with the H1 globe as a separate driving light. There is a separate switch that allows the kangaroo part to be switched on/off when the main lights are on high beam. I must admit I've seen the GS light, but just figured it must have been a separate reflector for the the kangaroo lights in addition to the main beam.

Also is the main globe like the pic? This is the P45t base, sort of an old Euro spec, the bulbs are available in halogen form from decent bulb places. I got my last lot from Super Cheap.
 

Attachments

  • p45t.jpeg
    p45t.jpeg
    4.6 KB · Views: 513
Google tells me that what you have there is an upgrade from the stock R2 tungsten bulbs... now I know what to shop for!

Chris
 
what about just pulling the reflectors out and having them chrome plated? cant be that expensive, and would last.
 
Bling = ka-ching!

I can see one issue with chroming. The metal shells are pretty thin, and chroming pits over the years. You've a reasonable chance the stripping process may pinhole the shell.

Plating needs to be fully neutralised after application (see the "Paul's Chrome" shop tour for some info on this; otherwise minute quantities of acid will remain to destroy the part's finish over time.

Rhodium plate is nice but 3× the cost of gold... It's non-tarnishing and reflects whiter than chrome's "blue" tinge. I've used it on interior light reflectors and such.

Regards, Adam.
 
kangaroo lights

Simon said:
Ooo, it does sound like it is a different thing. The 12 has the normal double dipping globe, with the H1 globe as a separate driving light. There is a separate switch that allows the kangaroo part to be switched on/off when the main lights are on high beam. I must admit I've seen the GS light, but just figured it must have been a separate reflector for the the kangaroo lights in addition to the main beam.

Also is the main globe like the pic? This is the P45t base, sort of an old Euro spec, the bulbs are available in halogen form from decent bulb places. I got my last lot from Super Cheap.
Click to expand...

I had these of 1970 504, they were made by Cibie
They were available for other Car Manufacturers trapozoidal lights as well.


They had two lamps an two reflectors.

The main lamp was similar to the orignal manufactures lamp with twin filament lamp.

The "kangeroo" (in a pouch ?) was a totally seperate reflector and 100w single filament the lamp within the lamp body behind the same front glass.


On low beam the dipped of the twin lights


On high beam: the high beam filament plus the additional lamp and reflector lit.

When they were the round variety the were callled BI-IODE and still have pair to go into my 404.

See picture -very hrd to get a good one due to reflections...
 

Attachments

  • 000_0385.JPG
    000_0385.JPG
    36.9 KB · Views: 314
  • 000_0386.JPG
    000_0386.JPG
    43.6 KB · Views: 263
  • 000_0387.JPG
    000_0387.JPG
    37.5 KB · Views: 298
  • 000_0388.JPG
    000_0388.JPG
    40.5 KB · Views: 276
Rob, all the older Citroen lights are like that, including the main lights on a D (they're crap on them too, but at least they have extra spotlights).

Following Andrew and Alan's interesting discussion I soaked my reflector in the sink, and lo and behold the old coating stripped right off with a plastic scraper (OK, it was the back of plastic fork -- I was already in the kitchen). The brown stuff is some sort of resin rather than the metal I'd assumed...

Anyway, the surface underneath is basically as shiny as the original reflector. There's a few oxidized patches that some cutting paste will take care off, and I see that you can buy a clear-coat for alumium wheels that should be able to stand the heat. At which point I'll be in business. I picked up a set of those H4 halogens (thanks Simon) on the weekend, and very good they are too; once I wire them up come on for high-beam I might actually stand a chance of seeing Skippy before he sees me :D

However I've just come to the realisation that my cambelt tensioners need changing REALLY SOON, so it might have to wait a little bit. I love old cars :rolleyes:

How did Chris x2 in Brisbane get on with that film?

Chris
 
Simon said:
Ooo, it does sound like it is a different thing. The 12 has the normal double dipping globe, with the H1 globe as a separate driving light. There is a separate switch that allows the kangaroo part to be switched on/off when the main lights are on high beam. I must admit I've seen the GS light, but just figured it must have been a separate reflector for the the kangaroo lights in addition to the main beam.

Also is the main globe like the pic? This is the P45t base, sort of an old Euro spec, the bulbs are available in halogen form from decent bulb places. I got my last lot from Super Cheap.
Click to expand...



Classic and Vintage Bulbs in South Australia have a good selection of both tungsten and halogen bulbs in most fittings and sizes, and will make up stuff to order if necessary.

www.classicandvintagebulbs.com or (08) 8278 4393

The usual disclaimers, I'm just a satisfied customer.

Mike Brown
 
what about powder coating them ??

i'm not sure what finishes they can do but it might be worth a call to ask

if i remember tomorrow i'll drop around to our local powder coating place and ask them
 
pugrambo said:
what about powder coating them ??

i'm not sure what finishes they can do but it might be worth a call to ask

if i remember tomorrow i'll drop around to our local powder coating place and ask them
Click to expand...


This is just my opinion, but I don't think that there is any EFFECTIVE substitute for having them resilvered, and there are not that many places still doing it.

Mike Brown
 
Mike,

You may be right, but I started this thread in the spirit of "I'm poor so what if I could do it myself?" Technology (in the form of paints and such) has moved on a tad in the last 30 years, after all.

Having said that, my father had some hubcaps re-chromed a couple of years ago that came back looking superb, then started bubbling within a few weeks. You'd be a bit unhappy if that happened to the inside of a headlight. The rhodium option as explained by Haakon sounds nice but very expensive!

Chris
 
chris said:
Mike,

You may be right, but I started this thread in the spirit of "I'm poor so what if I could do it myself?" Technology (in the form of paints and such) has moved on a tad in the last 30 years, after all.

Having said that, my father had some hubcaps re-chromed a couple of years ago that came back looking superb, then started bubbling within a few weeks. You'd be a bit unhappy if that happened to the inside of a headlight. The rhodium option as explained by Haakon sounds nice but very expensive!

Chris
Click to expand...



Yes, most of the people doing chrome plating now are bloody cowboys who either don't know or don't care what they are doing.

There is a newish coating system called (I think) aluminium ceramic which comes up very well provided that the base material is good.

It's used on exhaust systems a lot, and I've seen some very good results.

Having said that, I don't know what is involved in the process, or whether it would damage something as comparatively fragile as a lamp reflector.

Good luck.

Mike Brown
 
Cadbury would not be pleased!

Aw, man! I bought a family block of Cadbury chocolate just to redo the insides of my headlights with the foil. Guess I'll just have to eat the chocolate anyway ;)

So...(in a vain attempt to keep the post technical) would the glued chocolate foil stand up to the heat or would it peel away too soon?
 
Last edited:
The Gonz said:
So...(in a vain attempt to keep the post technical) would the glued chocolate foil stand up to the heat or would it peel away too soon?
Click to expand...

The only problem with this is that the foil may be suitableish, but the glue may soften. Last time I had a chocolate block though the foil was paper backed and could sort of burn leading to a worse situation.....Also if contact adhesive is used, it adheres on contact, with no opportunity to smooth out the wrinkles. It would be interesting if something like a Loctite product or wood glue would suit (after a suitable curing time), it remains soft while drying allowing it to be smoothed to a shiny surface using a soft round shaped firm foam rubber roller.

The heat from the globe could also do interesting things with the glue and expansion of the foil........

IMO stuffing around with foil would likely be a lot more hassle than it is worth. Probably best to do a U-Pull-It trawl for another light.
 
The thread lives!

Actually I was going to add another post here, as I finally got around to coating my reflector last night. It looks pretty good so far. What I did overall:

--Stripped off the old coating; half an hour in soapy water and 20 minutes with a plastic scraper takes it back to the very shiny backing layer (aluminium, I think).

--Got onto the few patches of oxidation with the cutting paste. This reflector was really stuffed, and in the few places where the original coating had completely gone the backing layer was dull.

-- Gave it a couple of coats of an engine-enamel clearcoat I found at Auto One. This is funny stuff, it looks kind of cloudy until it dries (needs a good heating for a full cure but running the lights should do that).

If I get around to borrowing a digi camera from work I'll post a pic. Having had a play around now I would not recommend trying to use foil -- the compound curvature of the reflector will drive you nuts.

The end? We shall see. I've got a new set of connectors to put on too, so I'll wire all the bulbs to come on together at high beam and I might be able to see where I'm going :dance:

Chris
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top