Removing DS exhaust manifolds

This weekend I'm going to remove my DS23 (DX engine) exhaust manifolds to replace a couple of studs. I have neither hoist nor pit so could do with some advice as to how best to tackle, from above, the nuts at the base of the manifolds at the down pipe flange. Would I need a crows foot spanner, or does anybody have any other tricks?

Cheers,
Dave R

Dave Rogers said:

This weekend I'm going to remove my DS23 (DX engine) exhaust manifolds to replace a couple of studs. I have neither hoist nor pit so could do with some advice as to how best to tackle, from above, the nuts at the base of the manifolds at the down pipe flange. Would I need a crows foot spanner, or does anybody have any other tricks?

Cheers,
Dave R

Click to expand...

Car on stands, good light, extensions with wobble elbows working from under the car (goggles to stop the crap getting in your eyes) someone above guiding the socket onto each nut, ahhhh the memories

I think from memory it's only two of the nuts that you need to get from under the car...?

Good luck :wink2:

Cheers
Chris

Yes only two of the nuts need to be got at from underneath. The nuts are size b@stard and m0ngrel respectively. Spray them at least an hour before with some penetrene or similar. It may also be best to source new ones from David Gries if he is available.

These pics may give some clues.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/craigkeller1966/sets/72157626826564973/

Thanks Chris & Craig, I see that I have fun times ahead. Craig your photos are very helpful, while I have the manifolds off I intend to get the starter motor out and have it checked. No problems at this time but may as well do it while I have access. So your last photo is invaluable as it shows you did split the steering column, I was wondering about the need to do this. I believe your new Valeo is the bees-knees. Wish me luck.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-38.146970,145.128298

manifold

hi dave how are you?

i did this jobs a month ago and found the steering colum has togo and the front sphere

i then lifted the engine about one inch with a peice of wood under the sump and the jack
this gives enough lift on the engine mounts to get all the manifold bolts from the top making i a lot safer and less dirty, when you rplace the studs make sure you put good anti seize on all the threads when reassembling

its also a good idea to replace the positive battery cable with something a little larger as the voltage drop on the factory cable is terrible and doesnt do the factory starter motors any good

best of luck

Dave Rogers said:

Thanks Chris & Craig, I see that I have fun times ahead. Craig your photos are very helpful, while I have the manifolds off I intend to get the starter motor out and have it checked. No problems at this time but may as well do it while I have access. So your last photo is invaluable as it shows you did split the steering column, I was wondering about the need to do this. I believe your new Valeo is the bees-knees. Wish me luck.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-38.146970,145.128298

Click to expand...

partially removing the steering column and the gear linkage rod does make life easier. I suppose to really ease things taking the right wing off would be good too.

Balki said:

hi dave how are you?

i did this jobs a month ago and found the steering colum has togo and the front sphere

i then lifted the engine about one inch with a peice of wood under the sump and the jack
this gives enough lift on the engine mounts to get all the manifold bolts from the top making i a lot safer and less dirty, when you rplace the studs make sure you put good anti seize on all the threads when reassembling

its also a good idea to replace the positive battery cable with something a little larger as the voltage drop on the factory cable is terrible and doesnt do the factory starter motors any good

best of luck

Click to expand...

I recommend the new power lead too. Take the old one to a decent auto sparky and get them to make one for you. I did mine in 2006 when I last replaced the starter.

90 degree bent flattened spanner does the job!

Had the same problem on my D Super recently while trying to get to a faulty starter motor. The nuts on the manifold were very awkward to get to especially one of them. There is very little space there and a normal spanner was not able to do the job. Bob who was working on my stationary D asked me to take a size 7 closed? spanner, heat it and then flatten and bend it round into a 90 degree angle for him. I took the spanner to Jim, a mate who did the bashing of metal as requested. It worked well and resulted in being able to remove manifold nuts, and starter motor from above, for repair. Bob has kept said spanner for use in future situations.

Dave, as you are doing some preventative work on the D starter ... consider replacing the thick power cable that goes under the water pump and away from the starter. The insulation is sure to be brittle and cracked and these days replacement with heat resistant silicone cover is possible.

All the comments on the starter cable are interesting.... It was only a couple of weeks ago we were trying to start my fathers DS23 and were looking at that cable saying "how in the hell is the car going to start with this cable".... trying to see the starter from above with A/C and injection puts off any immediate thoughts of replacement though

I remember grinding down a socket years ago to get at those manifold studs on a DS motor. You grind it shorter, at take a big chunk of the diametre off. The ID's are simple in comparison

seeya,
Shane L.

This last week we've been trying to remove the starter motor from one of our DS23's. On the outlet manifold some of the studs came out and at some places only the nuts. Our biggest problem was the fact that the bracket at the bottom of the exhaust was welded to the exhaust and there is no braided flexi pipe...

Now we still have to remove the steering wheel to get to the starter motor.

Time spent so far? TOO MUCH

I'll make sure that everything on the starter is 100% before I put it back. I don't want to do it more than once on a DS.

Well, the job is done.

When I got the heat shield off I could see why I sound like a Nuffield tractor, both studs were missing from No1 cylinder, the poor old manifold was only being held on by the studs at No. 4. New studs and gaskets were purchased and the knuckle skinning began.

Firstly I made a 'special tool' for undoing the clamp on the steering column. I used the rod from a BX tail gate piston, cut a slot in one end and bent the other end into a handle. It worked well and made the reassembly job a lot easier.

I found that by using 1/4 inch drive sockets with a short extension I could get to all nuts, but I had to remove the extension for the very last nut closest to the firewall. The studs on cylinders 2 & 4 came away instead of the nuts coming off and all are not tight.

Fortunately the threads on the missing studs on cylinder 1 were not stripped although the second stud was a little cross threaded and needed a bit of tidying up with a tap.

My next door neighbour came over and guided my socket up onto the manifold to exhaust header pipe while I was underneath getting crud on my face. I used blue tack to stiffen up the universal joint that I had a the top of the long extensions, without the blue tack the joint flopped over, even worse than brewer's droop, and there isn't enough room to get fingers under the manifold, straighten the joint and guide it onto the nut. The blue tack worked a treat.

A quick clean up and I was ready to install new studs and gaskets.

Gaskets and studs all ready to go

I located the manifolds onto the block and at the header pipe end and finger tightened all the nuts while everything was loose. As I was working on my own and running out of time, I thought that I'd tighten the manifold nuts (studs now held in with stud-lock), reassemble everything bar the air cleaner and wait for my son to come home to help me with the manifold to header pipe nuts.

Well, I was a dick as soon as I got it together I realised I'd cut off any access he'd have to get his fingers under the manifold. So off came the sphere, gear selector rod and the steering column (self praise was given to the maker of the 'special tool and, hint, turn the ignition key to release the steering lock before trying to push/pull the steering wheel into the cabin ), and we proceeded to tighten the four nuts. All good, car sounded good, no leaks on idle so back together it went in its entirety.

I did replace the starter motor lead. The factory one was quite brittle and on the small side. I replaced it with bloody great thick stuff and the starter now spins over with much more gusto.

Later that week I took the car for a 30 kms run and about 20 kms into it it started sounding like a Nuffield tractor again, this time a Nuffiled with a hole in its muffler.

So next day off work, yesterday, I took everything apart again ( I reckon I could do this in my sleep now) to find that the nuts on the rear of the header pipe ( those fed by cylinders 2 & 3) were done up tightly but the manifold wasn't fitting squarely against the header pipe, hence the big leak. The problem being that I had tightened up the manifold nuts while the header pipe nuts were only finger tight. So a trap for young players, "Always locate the manifolds to the block and the exhaust header pipe and do nuts up loosely. Then tighten the exhaust flange nuts tightly while the manifold to block nuts are loose, then tighten the manifold nuts starting from the middle outwards."

Problem is now all fixed, and along with the new flexible pipe that I had installed a few weeks back, my car is quieter that its ever been.

...the old blue tack trick :>)

Dave Rogers said:

When I got the heat shield off I could see why I sound like a Nuffield tractor, both studs were missing from No1 cylinder, the poor old manifold was only being held on by the studs at No. 4. New studs and gaskets were purchased and the knuckle skinning began....

.....my car is quieter that its ever been.

Click to expand...

Nice write up Dave, brought back so many memories, right down to the blue tack :roflmao:

Cheers
Chris

Hello everyone

I am about to replace the starter motor on my DecidedlySpecial as well.. but my model has the 4 into 1 exhaust manifold and single down pipe.. has anyone tried replacing the starter with this configuration?

I ask as in one of the sticky manuals it shows the starter being replaced with the manifild intact. Obiviously it would be easier with it out of the way but I am curious if anyone has tried it.

Thanks

Matthew