C5 V6, Bad oil leak around timing cover area, Seeking Advice

Ben, the misfire stalling is likely to be the ignition coil. Common issue. Sounds like similar symptoms to our old 406 v6.
 
Thanks guys,

Chris, I have no problem telling you that I paid $3200 for the car. I impulsively bought it sight unseen off the internet. Stupid? probably Time will tell lol. And as usual pictures made it look in much better condition than it was in person but having said that it is still reasonably tidy.

I understand where your coming from, and I have read a few of your threads and and you definitely seemed to have more than your fair share of woes. It's early days for me at this stage, and my wife does like the car which is more than I can say for the last few we've been through. (Jag, Beemer) Her perspective could change though of course once parts bills start coming in.

Luckily I have the ability and the tools to be able to do almost any work required myself. Although this is probably the newest and definitely the most sophisticated vehicle i've worked on so where my knowledge runs out luckily there is all you guys!

Another update if anyone is interested. I got a call from the mrs yesterday and the car has done approximately 200 klms running around where she is without problem, however it did get a Anti pollution Fault come up yesterday afternoon, but did not affect the cars performance.

There's not much I can do about it from here, so once she gets back i'll take it back to have the codes read again and see what errors have returned and what's new.
I understand the pollution error can mean a whole range of things so hopefully the diagnostics can be more specific.

Kaza1, the car doesn't really misfire, just generally dies completely. I'm not sure what Citroen call it, but are you talking about what some manufacturers call a PTU (Power Transistor Unit) or Ignitor?

Regards
Ben
 
Ben, great to hear from you and I am glad some of the issues are settling, but the old anti pollution notification came on, went off, came on went off, so I really hope you get it soughted. I am also glad that you didn't pay top bucks for it, and as I said, I have those soughts of questions but they become relevant when the dollars go up and up. For me, I thought the car would have to right itself after so much expense, and didn't listen to anyone before buying and went with my heart. Several people said the minute they saw it, that they saw dollars, and lots of them, but I didn't listen. I loved it!! And I paid 20 grand, and the car then was 3 years old, and I thought I had the bargain of a lifetime, as they were 60 when new.

In the context of your thread, it all makes better sense now, and as you are mechanically minded, there is the difference. Some things you will need to have done, but the Pirtek pipe you might be ale to do yourself. The sump i think is too, and was a small job. Coils, change a set at a time, and make sure you get them for the right price. Front tyres scrub out too, no matter how good the alignment is, so I wouldn't go putting on a $300 per tyre pair on the front. The plugging in business, I thought they worked on a software download from Paris via the Internet arrangement, and I know you can get a reading device for a few hundred bucks.

Another little C5 thing to be aware of is when they start saying boot is unlocked when it is locked, it is a sign that the computer is on the way out, and that came from McCarrolls where I ok mine.

It still might be worth getting to know a proper dealer who knows what goodwill means, and if there are things they and only they can do, it would be a good thing, like the download. Let him know it didn't cost the earth, and I am sure that they will look after you.

Keep us all in the loop and let us know how it goes.

Chris
 
Chris,

That must of hurt quite a bit forking over that kind of money in repairs plus the depreciation on top in only 12 months!
I had read a reasonable amount of bad owner feedback about the first generation C5's so I was somewhat prepared but the seller's advert specifically said and I quote "No oil leaks" HA! , and "Nothing to spend" HA again!
I fully understand buyer beware, but when I sell cars I'm very up front and honest about any problems and I guess I sometimes forget that other people don't necessarily have the same values as I do. Ohh well live and learn.

I'm generally into older cars of which I have more than a few, but the mrs has been badgering me for ages to just get one good modern daily driver that "doesn't always need work done" lol. So the C5 probably wasn't the best choice in that regard. At least so far at any rate.
I figured it's a 2003 model car, how much can go wrong in 9 years? haha

And Michael,

That Lexia package looks like it's probably a good investment, thank you!\

Regards
Ben
 
Ok guys another bit of an update.

My wife did not make it back from her trip. I had to go tow the car the last 70 odd klms home.
Basically the whole way it struggled to maintain any sort of speed. Any more than very slight throttle and it would stutter and lose all power. All sorts of faults came up.

I've just taken it back over to have the codes read again and we have the following, some of which i've found details on, some I'm not sure about.

P1727 - Coast clutch solenoid inductive signature malfunction - (Whatever that means)
P1728 - Trans slip error - Multiplexing - No communication with automatic transmission
P0420 - Front Cat aging
P0430 - Rear Cat aging
P0336 - ?? maybe crank sensor?
P0172 - ?? too rich on bank 1?
P0175 - ?? too rich on bank 2?

If anyone has any thoughts on where I should start i'd love to hear them :)

Regards
Ben
 
Blocked catalytic converter perhaps?
Check all the wiring connectors and earth points. Look for corroded/damaged pins or female pin sockets that have been opened out by probing.
There is a breather pipe set and it's fragile and prone to breaking, so check for air leakage there.
A trip to a knowledgable dealer may yet be in order.
 
I sent my 2003 C5 to the wrecker two years ago. It has proved to be a massive saving in time, money and stress management. Now I have daily transport that needs no attention and I can exercise my brain fixing interesting cars like my Panhard and GS.
 
Hello,

Re: blocked cat, when it runs good it's great, so I don't think there's an issue there. Although I do have a sneaking suspicion that the cats in fact have no substrate left in them but that's a problem for another day.

The breather pipe assembly (assuming your talking about the one under the throttle body area with several flex pipes coming off a central larger pipe) was just replaced when the oil leak was fixed. Apparently the old one pretty much fell apart when the mechanic had the inlet manifold off.

I've just had a play and have pulled out what I think is the crank sensor (under the breather assembly mentioned above?)
I've been looking around to try to find what what resistance value I should be getting. It reads 0.407 ohms if anyone can state if that's good or bad.

Various sensors listed on Ebay UK are inexpensive enough that i'll just replace a whole bunch one at a time and see how it responds starting with the crank and then the speed one on the gearbox, When I can find where it's located that is ;)

Thanks for the advice Gerry, however i've only just bought this car so i'm not quite ready to give up just yet. If any more major expenses come up though I might well re-evaluate that position!

Cheers
Ben
 
Captain slow, when it starts playing up, does it settle after it cools down? To me, it sounds like what our previous 406 v6 did. It would intermittently lose power, miss and stall. Would run fine after few hours. Turned out to be a dud coil. Try and see if you can borrow a coil from someone on the forum or get a second hand one for testing purposes.
 
Hmmm, worth considering for sure. However when the car is being difficult, wont accelerate, stuttering etc if you pull over to the side of the road the car does not stall and the idle is fine.

Thank you for the suggestion at any rate, definitely will be worth investigating if I don't have any luck with the sensors.

Ben

Kaza1 said:
Captain slow, when it starts playing up, does it settle after it cools down? To me, it sounds like what our previous 406 v6 did. It would intermittently lose power, miss and stall. Would run fine after few hours. Turned out to be a dud coil. Try and see if you can borrow a coil from someone on the forum or get a second hand one for testing purposes.
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What fuel have you been using? It needs to be at least 95 RON. Don't use E10.
Could it be a fuel starvation, pump or filter problem? Do you know when was the fuel filter last changed? It's under the heat shield below the right, rear passenger seat.
In some cases, the tank can form a vacuum if the breather becomes blocked. Is there a vacuum when you open the tank?
A failed coil will allow the car to idle and drive along OK when coasting, but will shake quite severely under load.
If there is no communication with the gearbox, perhaps, there is a problem with the high speed network. I wouldn't see that as a DIY job unless there's an obvious wiring harness fault.
 
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I was told the car had recently had a full service, but I was also told the car had nothing to spend on it :cry:
So the filter is definitely worth a check. I did sort of feel like clogged filter driving it today, but for previous symptoms I would have said no.

And we have only put BP 98 in it.

Where is the fuel filter? I think you might have missed a word :)

Thanks
Ben
 
On the earlier C5 V6's, the fuel filter is under the car. You have to release the inner side of the of the undershield/heat shield beneath the right, rear passenger seat to get at it. If you pull the heat shield down a few inches, you should find it.

The pump is in the pickup/sender unit that you access by lifting the right, rear passenger seat cushion and removing the black plastic cover. Removing it requires a tool to undo the ring, but it can be fiddly and more than a few mechanics have ended up with a leak there after refitting the sender.

If you need used bits, one option is Riverside Spares in Sydney. They recently had one, possibly two V6's in their yard plus a couple of early diesels. Sydney Wide Auto Parts in the Bankstown area have a few Citroens and are worth a try. Continental Cars have also dismantled a couple of V6's.
 
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Well it's been a while but here's another update for anyone interested.

Per David's advice above I changed the fuel filter a few weeks ago. It did have quite alot of crud in the old one so I was hoping that might have been the problem but no luck. I then put the car on a friends hoist to check the exhaust for blockages etc. The front cat's substrate looked to be in good condition. I couldn't get to the rear bank one so didn't check it, but pulled the middle exhaust section off and checked that too.

All appeared ok so it was back to the drawing board.
I've been quite busy lately, but I finally managed to get the car to the closest Citroen dealer last week and I got a call today saying they have diagnosed it as two of the catalytic converters and for them to supply them was going to be over $4000 lol

Sooooo, has anyone gone down this path before?
Do they have to be Citroen cats? And how many cats does the car actually have?
The rear bank one looks to be a real PITA job, is this correct?

I've found some full replacement exhaust sections from the UK ranging from $170 to 300 depending on which ones I need, which i'm yet to find out. Freight will be a killer, but it will be a fraction of what Citroen has quoted.

I suppose there's also used parts, if they came from a running car then I should get some time out of them. But then again if fitment is a real pain then I don't want to have to do it again any time soon!

I'm assuming it will probably need new O2's also. Something else to find a source for.

I'll go do some forum searching but if anyone has any helpful info on all this i'd very much love to hear it :)

Thanks again folks!
Ben
 
I know my local exhaust mob - Tuffy Mufflers in Epping (NSW) - are hungry at the present. You'll get a lot of change from $4K for a set of aftermarket cats welded in. They quoted me $380 turn-key to recatalyse the Xantia (four cylinder).

You owe David a beer, if he called the fault first.
 
It has 3 catalysts - a small pre-catalyst bolted onto each manifold and then a main one. The catalysts on the manifold are not especially large or heavy, so freight will not be as bad as you expect and an outfit like Interparcel.com could be useful. The main catalyst can be easily replaced by a generic one of the appropriate size, but spend a little extra and you get a stainless case. Expect it to sounds a little different. The oxygen sensors are relatively inexpensive, so you might even start there.
 
Ahh ok well a quick call to the dealer has just cleared up that it's the two pre cats that are the problem.

He also said that when they change the one on the rear bank of cylinders they have to support the engine from above and drop the sub frame to gain access. Which explains the $625 labor quote to replace just that one!

Does anyone know if this is the best/only way?

Given how difficult and annoying the job sounds I'm guessing I probably shouldn't bother fitting a used one then :)

Regards
Ben

David S said:
It has 3 catalysts - a small pre-catalyst bolted onto each manifold and then a main one. The catalysts on the manifold are not especially large or heavy, so freight will not be as bad as you expect and an outfit like Interparcel.com could be useful. The main catalyst can be easily replaced by a generic one of the appropriate size, but spend a little extra and you get a stainless case. Expect it to sounds a little different. The oxygen sensors are relatively inexpensive, so you might even start there.
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Id be putting both the little cats in a hessian bag and throwing them in the canal ,dont tell anyone .pugs
 
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