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Thread: 69 404 restoration

  1. #101
    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    That's pretty much the same model sewer as mine and it goes like the clappers. It won't take long to get the hang of using it if you throw yourself into it. Watch your fingers though, it won't discriminate between upholstery and your fingers.. Let me know if you need any tutoring.

    GH3

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  2. #102
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    Cheers GH3,

    Your name and Genevieve's did run through my mind when I was deciding whether or not to go down this road. I'll certainly be in touch.



    Dano
    Last edited by Dano; 11th May 2015 at 08:57 PM.

  3. #103
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    Rookie error! Did not check the gas bottle level during the week before starting on Saturday and yep it ran out of gas, just after lunch.

    Before that, some rust damage and torn boltholes in the radiator support panel were repaired, welded and ground into shape.
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    Prior to tacking it into place, the panel was measured, remeasured and crosschecked against photos that were taken during the removal process. Prior to removal, various (important) measurements were scribbled on the body etc. for later reference. Thank God, because as stated in an earlier entry, there are no measurements available. All 404’s were assembled on body jigs.

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    Once happy that it was all square and secure, Keith was lowered off the stands and rolled on his side.
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    This gave easy access to weld the sole plates into position. These were fabricated/copied from an original panel that was borrowed to make a template. Not having a spot-welder, a series of holes were drilled along both sides of the sole plates to enable plug welding of the plates to the bottom flanges of the inner guard. Halfway through attaching the second plate, was when the gas ran out.

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    The passenger's side subframe didn’t fit straight up, so some mods were required. Firstly, the floor and patched areas were slightly bent, heat distorted (?) and secondly the new panel was twisted and slightly damaged in transit. As with the sole plates, the flanges of the subframes were drilled in readiness for plug welding. The subframe was held into place with vise-grips and using a quick release clamp through a drain hole in the floor, the panel was pulled into position. To keep it in place, self-tapping screws were used as a temporary measure.
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    Final adjustments/alignment were done with a hammer and brickies bolster (very handy tool) as the flanges weren’t always square and flush with the floor.
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    Last edited by Dano; 17th May 2015 at 01:46 PM.
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  4. #104
    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    I was just thinking, if ever there came up for sale such a thing as a complete kit of body panels/sections for a 404, I reckon you'd be just the bloke to put it all together.
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  5. #105
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    A nice little alloy V8 would complete the journey Dan! Say something small, like a Rover V8 4.6???? Skinny Michelins and hub caps?

  6. #106
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    Maybe when I was younger Stew, but now its just an appreciation for simplicity and originality.
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  7. #107
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    Yep, I'm all for originality as well.
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  8. #108
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    Today’s effort didn’t start to well, as we had to remove the sub-frame and repair it, after the first couple of welds didn’t hold. Not sure what type of paint was used, but it certainly didn’t like being welded. Cleaned off the black paint and sprayed with copper based weld through primer.

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    I always thought the non-genuine panels were a little thin and flimsy and that proved correct when being removed. It just tore so easily. When it was re-welded into place, it became rigid. However, a mental note to self, never place a jack under it as I think it will fold/collapse easily. Once the plug welds were ground back, the sub-frames look OK. I’m going to use brushable body sealer to seal the gaps between the frames and floor. It will also help to hide my rather ugly welds.


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    Inserted the last floor patch and tidied up an earlier attempt. Plugged a number of pinholes and small rust areas, which became evident when the shell was sandblasted.

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    Tacked and welded the radiator cross-member/sub-frame into place and aligned using previous measurements and a little SWAG (Scientific wild arse guess). Finally, the radiator support panel was tacked and welded into place.

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    After today’s effort, I can proudly say that all the front and rear end panels plus the underbody ones, have now been replaced or repaired. All that is left is to refit the front air vent and windscreen panels and the rust removal is finished (I hope).
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  9. #109
    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    That is one beautiful looking body. Great work.
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  10. #110
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    Not much has happened bodywork wise lately, real job has got in the way.

    Back into it today.

    Sanded and painted the front and rear sway bars.

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    Last week, two gearboxes were stripped and raided for parts to make a new one. The first box seems tight with no obvious free play in the gears, but inside the housing was a different story. The housings had gouges underneath where the split-pins hold the selector arms/forks to the rods. At some stage, it would appear that someone has tried to remove the pins and not slid them down to where there is a recess in the casing for said operation. The selector rods also have some nasty gouges/marks.

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    Gearbox and diff overhauls are not my specialty, so they’re off to Stew Battersby’s to be done. In my eBay trawling’s, I’ve managed to find a gearbox overhaul kit (New shims, washers, split pins and seals etc) and an array of bearings. Awhile ago, the the selector shaft that enters the bottom of the the rear gearbox housing was modified to prevent future leaking. This was done by Collin(?), at West Engineering (?) in Melbourne. Sorry I can't name the guy or the company accurately (lost the details). They machined the housing to inserted a scrapper seal on the shaft. Originally it was just a simple bush, that leaked badly once a little wear came into play.

    With the box overhauled, new linkages fitted and a completely refurbished steering column/ gear selector unit, it should be just like new.

    It’s a little over the top, but I decided to get the gearbox, diff and axle housings wet blasted. Then I thought, if I getting them done might as well get all the aluminium bits done. Took them up to fellow Frogger, CarNut in Ipswich. The results are amazing. Everything will need to be stripped and washed/blown out to remove the residue glass beads. In hindsight, it might have been better to dismantle the carburetor and fuel pump first. Oh well.

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    Also refurbished the torque tube centre-bearing holder (New bearing and O-rings seals). The original bearing had let go and some of the needle rollers had come loose. The bearing had moved in the holder with the result being, the loose needles have scored the centre lug/face that the bearing runs on. It’s now time to find a replacement drive/prop shaft.

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    On holidays again for the next few weeks, so hopefully I should make some good progress.
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  11. #111
    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    Given the trouble you've gone to with the body I can well understand the attention to detail you're also giving the mechanicals.

    As you're probably already aware, the 504 rear extension housings leaked more even readily. I'm no engineer but I've always thought it looked like a poor design.

    This promises to be a spectacular 404.
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  12. #112
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    More goodies arrived in the post today.

    Two sets of NOS internal door handles. All nice and shiny with no pitting or any sign of age deterioration.

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    Also managed to find a set of boot rubbers, not the lip seals, but the ones that are fitted in the rear corners of the boot lid (two different suppliers).

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    Unfortunately during my recent holidays no bodywork was done. but not all was lost though, as I had my diff overhauled. With the new centre and all the associated bits all fitted, it is nice and tight (within specs). A huge difference from the old one. It use to clunk quite loudly when the pinion was rotated backward and forward by hand.

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    The rear brake drums were machined and new linings bonded to the shoes. Thanks to Marty 404, who put me onto Wayne at Better Brakes, Southport. He has a good knowledge of 404 Peugeots. The boys in the workshop fabricated me a complete set of brake and fuel lines. All done at a price that I thought was more than reasonable. Yes, I could have done the lines myself, but as I said, the price was very good.


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    Still working on a design for a two-piece steering column boot/flange. The CAD work is done, next step is to use the CNC mill to fabricate the mould. When I saw Mike Tippet’s thread the other day, I thought I’d been wasting my time, but it turns out the Peugeot Museum can only supply the left hand drive version. From what I read and discussed with a few people, a polyurethane of some type seems to be the best option for the process. My concerns are contamination from brake fluid, oil and heat. If anyone has any thoughts on what would be the best medium to use, I would be most appreciative.

    Also got some good advice on how to fix the tears on the bottom of the front right door-card. The damage is too bad to weld/repair. Stay tuned for progress on that one for now though. First, I have to fabricate new backing boards. I have a couple that are not too badly damaged, so they will make good templates. 3mm MDF will be used to fabricate the new ones. To help protect them from water etc., they will be coated in a clear epoxy.

  13. #113
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    [/QUOTE]Still working on a design for a two-piece steering column boot/flange. The CAD work is done, next step is to use the CNC mill to fabricate the mould. When I saw Mike Tippet’s thread the other day, I thought I’d been wasting my time, but it turns out the Peugeot Museum can only supply the left hand drive version. From what I read and discussed with a few people, a polyurethane of some type seems to be the best option for the process. My concerns are contamination from brake fluid, oil and heat. If anyone has any thoughts on what would be the best medium to use, I would be most appreciative.

    .[/QUOTE]

    Dano,

    Polyurethane rubber of about 'SHORE A 65" will do for your boot, I've seen your CAD interpretation of what you are trying to achieve and I reckon you are on the right track.

    I'll soon be making a mould for some Fregate rubbers that will be injected with polyurethane so I'll be the trail blazer on this. The two part polyurethane rubbers are too thick for a closed gravity feed mould and they set too fast anyway for this application. I intend using a recycled and cleaned gap filler cartridge in a cartridge gun as the injection device as it's important to get the rubber into the mould fast (within two minutes).

    As far as chemical durability if oil etc. come into contact with the finished article I would have to ask my suppliers what is available for this application but I reckon a good coat of spray wax would be a big help.

    Stay tuned to my resto thread for my slant on how to accomplish what you are about to do.

    Keep up the outstanding work.

    GH3

  14. #114
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    Thanks Graham,

    Appreciate the feedback/info.

    The cartridge idea is clever. I'd been toying with the idea of a modifying an old hand operated oil pump (Home mechanic slush pump version). The caulking gun method would also generate better pressure, especially as the mould cavity starts to fill.

    It was great to see Genevieve at the GDFC yesterday. She is a thing of beauty.

    Cheers,

    Dan

  15. #115
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano View Post
    Thanks Graham,

    Appreciate the feedback/info.

    The cartridge idea is clever. I'd been toying with the idea of a modifying an old hand operated oil pump (Home mechanic slush pump version). The caulking gun method would also generate better pressure, especially as the mould cavity starts to fill.

    It was great to see Genevieve at the GDFC yesterday. She is a thing of beauty.

    Cheers,

    Dan
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  16. #116
    1000+ Posts Mike Tippett's Avatar
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    Lovely work Dan! Inspirational as I hope to start on my C next year.
    1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection in restoration NOW!
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    2006 smart BRABUS Tailor-Made Canada 1 cabriolet
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  17. #117
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    Dear Dano

    I have just finished my '70 404 and had similar door card issues, compounded by needing to change from black to red.

    I got them done by Pro Stitch in Sydney, who searched out moulds that gave the right pattern ( I think early Commode ones ). They did a good job of reproducing the originals and were very flexible in using vinyl of the specified colour ( I had re-done seats in leather, so matching was a bit of an issue ). Result is good and price was about 550.00 for four door cards, which fitted perfectly.

    Their contact is 02 94573850

    Love your work

    Best Wishes


    Andrew

  18. #118
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    Thanks Andrew,

    Greatly appreciate it. Leather seats would be a nice touch.
    Are there any photos of your handy work.

    Cheers,

    Dan

  19. #119
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    Dear All

    Must post correction. Number I gave apparently doesn't work

    Firm has two names

    Classic British and German
    also
    Prostitch

    Address :169 Bellevue Pde
    Carlton
    NSW 2218

    ph:0295467593

    sales@classicbritishgerman.com.au


    Manager is Tess, who is very helpful and on the ball

    tess@prostitch.com.au

    Apologies for any confusion

    Andrew
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  20. #120
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    Good day in the garage today. Finished a couple of small jobs that have been sitting idle for a while. All the parts had previously been sandblasted and repainted.

    Firstly, I finished reassembling the pedal box. This required replacing the clutch pedal sealing boot (NOS), the bump stop rubbers atop of the pedals (NOS), pivot pin bushes on both the clutch and brake pedals (Serie04 supplied) and replacing the welded on locking nuts (done in the factory) these will be replaced with nylocks. This will allow final adjustments when installed.

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    The original clevis pins were replaced due to wear. Not sure if I have done the right thing here, but time will tell. Both the clutch pedals I had, had elongated holes where the clevis pin goes through. In the workshop manual and parts manual, it shows as it being a round hole, so the hole was welded up and re-drilled.

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    Second was the steering column, which included re-kitting the gear selector mechanism. Within the steering column, both the top and bottom bushes were replaced (NOS) also had to replace the actual steel steering column, due to wear caused by the original top bush rubbing. Hard to believe I know, but the shaft was elongated and worn unevenly. It was tapered and scored, ranging anywhere between .5 and 1.2mm out of round. The top bush just flopped all over the place when placed on the shaft.

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    The selector kit originally purchased was for a left hand drive model, so some bits would not fit. In addition, all the pivot balls supplied were 10mm not 6mm as required. Eventually found the right parts via Dean Hunter of Peugeot Parts UK. (The AUD against the Pound is just bloody awful, enough said about that...)

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    A new selector shaft was fitted after ruining the thread trying to remove the holding nut that was welded into place to stop it from vibrating off. The new one came with a friction nut, which is like a nylock to prevent it vibrating off. A second nylock will be fitted later, just to be sure.

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    The selector lever was re-chromed as the original one was cracking and peeling. The stainless steel cover cap (covers the pivot pin where it goes through the lever) was also replaced. Somewhere in the pile of spares, there is a new rubber knob (NOS) to go on later.

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    Replaced the rubber bush and copper sleeve on the selector lever positioned on the tail housing of the gearbox.

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    Bought this little gem on eBay last weekend. It is a genuine Solex (99% sure of it). It came in the original box and all the documentation is in French. I sat it next to my original one and it is identical. I have seen a knock off out of China/Argentina and there are some minor modifications/changes. Even if it isn't, its better then the one I've got, which needs a complete refurbishment.

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    The plan is to tackle the spare wheel carrier and fuel tank next.
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  21. #121
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    Soon you will have the "joy" of adjusting the gear change to get "controls free and full". But doubtless it will easier for you because you will adjusting the linkages of what is essentially a brand new car.
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  22. #122
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    A little more motivation to pull one's finger out and get my cars finished.

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    You have to grab them when there are still available.

  23. #123
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    Fantastic!

    Can't wait to see THE 203 parked next to some of THE cars here!!
    Scotty

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    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  24. #124
    Fellow Frogger! Dano's Avatar
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    Apr 2012
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    Default Slow progress lately

    Not a lot has been happening of late. Mainly due to becoming a first time grandfather. Dan (Dad), my welder reckons he has his hands full at present. He has not even worked on his own resto, a ’62 two door Ford Falcon Wagon, a pretty rare beast. Also, leading up to and during the September school holidays, I was helping my son get ready for the last round of the Australian F1 Sidecar Championships at Phillip Island. They went into the meeting in 2nd place, but as often happens in racing, they were besieged with problems in the first heat and eventually coming home third in the championships.

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ID:	78620 LOK, is the swinger and they're doing about 240KLM into the first corner. (Nothing to do with Peugeots I know, but I'm dam proud of him.)

    I have made new door cards out of 3mm MDF, 2.5mm Masonite was available, but just too expensive for a whole sheet. To help protect the MDF, it was given three coats of a marine grade epoxy called Everdure. According to a boat builder friend, it is supposed to be the Bee’s knee for repelling moisture.
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    To make the cards, two layers of MDF were laminated together with the best of the existing cards (one front and one rear) to act as a template. This enable both sides to be fabricated at the same time and ensured that they were identical. A router was run around the outside of the existing card to obtain an exact match.

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    In my desire to keep Keith original, I looked high and wide for a good Black late model front right vinyl panel to no avail. Every upholsterer I spoke to was not interested or correctly stated that to reproduce the vinyl-welded pattern would be just too expensive, as a metal jig would need to be fabricated and then modified to use within the vacuum welding process (I think that is what they called it). What appeared to be the common solution was to stitch the pattern into new vinyl sections. This would have meant four new panels and then find a suitable chrome plastic trim to help maintain some form of originality. Again getting a little on the expensive side. Not to mention, just not look right.

    Anyhow, I was referred to Lee Brothers –Albion), to see if they could weld the torn sections along the bottom. The tears are due to the seatbelt buckle getting caught between the seat and door. Because of the age of the vinyl, welding was not an option (only the front right cover need repairing). After Wayne Lee, had a good look at the condition of the covers, he suggested stitching a panel of matching vinyl along and under the plastic strip, folding it back down, then gluing it into place. The only visible bit of stitching will be about 25-30 mm at either end of the plastic stip. Lee Brothers will reattach the vinyls covers, but due to their age, I had to remove them.
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    A colleague at work, who use to be a sign-writer, will use a reflective chrome adhesive to rejuvenate the plastic strips. These should be finished in earlier to mid-January ’16.

    Between Christmas and New Year, the motor will be reassembled. It was always my intention to rebuild the motor after everything else was completed, but with the arrival of Hunter (Grandson), plans have had to be modified to maintain some progress.

    It is a compete motor rebuild.
    Crank ground.
    Head pressure/crack tested and surfaced.
    Welsh plugs replaced, where required/doubtful.
    Valves lapped (They and the guides were in good condition).
    New piston and liners (Genuine Peugeot).
    New crank thrust washers.
    Gudgeon pin bushes on the conrods machine to match (23 to 21mm) The piston/sleeve set is for an earlier motor I think, it could be vise-versa), but still has the correct crown shape etc.
    New rocker shafts.
    Rocker bushes replaced (Machined in bronze).
    Rocker rubbing surfaces refaced.
    New pushrods.
    New Cam followers.
    New timing chain, tensioner and cogs.
    New oil pump.
    New water pump.
    New Solex carbie.

    This motor (1967 model) will replace the 2ltr 504 motor that was in the car at the time of purchase.

    The gearbox has also been reassembled, thanks to Stew Battersby. It has a complete set of new bearings, some of the cogs have been slightly machine to help tighten it up a bit (Stew’s suggestion), all new pins and shims, pivot ball replaced, a wiper seal has been inserted into the rear housing to prevent the selector shaft was leaking (Westgate Engineering- Melbourne) and a new universal joint and seal. When the time comes, a new ball head coupling will be fitted to the torque tube. Propshaft/Torque tube centre bearing has also been replaced.

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    Cheers,

    Dano
    Last edited by Dano; 24th December 2015 at 02:51 PM.

  25. #125
    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    Default

    Good to read this update. We were all hanging out for a progress report.
    Dano likes this.

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