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  1. #76
    Fellow Frogger! Dano's Avatar
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    Hi Romac,

    Thanks for your words of encouragement.

    Yeah, I’ve also been wondering how to keep it rust free when it is finished. I guess that is way I have taken the body back as far as I have. It wasn’t the original plan. That was, to do a little bodywork, rebuild the odd mechanical bits and pieces and then drive it.

    But as I have said before, once I got going, I realized the extent of the rust/damage and I had bought a lot of spares, so there was no turning back.

    As for rust treatments, everyone paint supplier etc. I talked to, had a different idea/product and theirs was always superior to anything else out there… What I have finally decided on is, have the body dipped as you suggest, sandblast it and then sprayed it in a two-pack primer. Again I agree with you, I will be drilling access holes in places I cannot get to and using a cavity sprayer, drench all channels etc. with a rust preventative product call Rust-master Metal Sealer available from Auto West Paint Supplies. It is what my welder/painter highly recommends. The holes will be drilled in strategic places that will allow me to remove the bungs and apply addition coats as the years go by.

    Hopefully that will keep the rust gremlins at bay. My son says I’ve got to spend the time getting it right, as he doesn’t want to have to do it again in the future. God bless him, he has already laid claims to it.

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  2. #77
    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    I, too, have been following your resto. Congratulations on the great job you're doing. It makes me wonder about the 404 I have that has, rusty sills, etc.

  3. #78
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    Peter,

    That thing that has surprised me the most and reason I was happy with the car at first sight, was the sills on the car were rust free. Considering all the other rust spots/damage it is amazing for a 404 to have rust free sills.

    Cheers

    Dano

  4. #79
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano View Post
    Peter,

    That thing that has surprised me the most and reason I was happy with the car at first sight, was the sills on the car were rust free. Considering all the other rust spots/damage it is amazing for a 404 to have rust free sills.

    Cheers

    Dano
    Lanolin spray is very good follow up treatment to the internal chassis rust primer.

    Wurth stoneguard is very good after rust treatment to prevent drumming and resist stone chipping underneath.

    The rustmaster metal sealer MDS calls for a lightly abraded clean surface on the metal and only light surface rust to be present.

    I guess that will be the case after your internal surgery. Don't forget to the whole car phosphated treat immediately after the dip cleaning.

    I made that mistake and surface rust appeared on the panel on drive home from the treatment factory!
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  5. #80
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    Another good day and so near, but still more to do.

    Dan, LOK and myself, got stuck into it yesterday and we made good progress. The right side inner guard was fitted, but it wasn’t as straight forward as the left side. When holding it into place, to check alignment etc., it became clear that something wasn’t right. It just didn’t sit right. On close inspection, it became obvious that the lower part of the panel was slightly bent and twisted. It took about an hour to get it right. There is the slightest crease in the panel now, but a little more panel work should rectify that issue.

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    Prior to removing the old panel and patching the floor it was realised that the factory locating/aligning lug would be removed with the rusted floor section, so a centre punch was used to make a serious of small indents along the edge of the old panel and firewall to help with align the new guard. Even though every measurement possible was taken, it was decided that the pinpoints would give greater accuracy. This turned out to be the right thing to do, because when the new guard was tacked into place, all the measurements were correct.
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    Besides fitting the guard, the air intake panel (?) on the left side was inserted and the patch for the right side was fabricated and ready for welding. What seemed a little drastic but necessary, was the removal of the corner sections of the rear panel for the air intake channel. It had to be removed, to allow access for the welder handset.

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    The only rust in the sills was on the leading edge of the right side. Previously a small patch was fabricated to repair the rust, but in the panel behind it were about four, 6mm holes. The original plan was to just drill out the holes and plug weld them, but something was nagging away in the back of my head and I because I’d gone this far, what was one more panel to cut open. I’m glad I did, because behind the layer of metal just at the base/front right corner of the floor pan, another small rust section was found. This could have easily gone unnoticed and become an annoyance down the track. Cutting the section away also allowed for a clear and unhindered view of the inside of the sill. All looks good and an inspection with my flexible camera reveals that there is no further rust in the sill.

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    On the underside of each guard the near where the strut mounts 5 or 6 holes were drilled to allow the panel to be stitched/welded to the middle layer of metal. The one that had to be removed and repaired when they were damaged removing the old guards.

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    I’m hoping my neighbours are going away for Easter, because it is going to get quite noisy next weekend with three grinders working overtime on the hundreds of plug welds and a few seam welds that need levelling/cleaning up.

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    I am fairly confident, that I have now found and removed all the rust in Keith’s shell. He has had quite a few skin grafts over the last two years.
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  6. #81
    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    Great work and I love your photos and explanations. Restos such as this highlight the number of salvageable cars that have gone to the crusher.
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  7. #82
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    Thanks Peter,

    It is a lot of work, but rewarding.

    Glad you enjoy my mutterings,

    Cheers,

    Dan

  8. #83
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    I am reflecting on the Roadworthy check prior to registration.

    Generally I leave an obvious fault to be picked to make the RWC tester happy.

    I just wonder what's going to happen when no matter how carefully he inspects the car there is nothing wrong with it, especially corrosion.

    Seriously Dano, this is restoration of a standard that we are more used to seeing in the Citroen forum . And usually carried out at hourly rates by professional body makers and restorers, costing megabucks.

    You dedication to detail is exceeded only by you pursuit of the tin worm in the car.

    The results are credit to you.
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    I am reflecting on the Roadworthy check prior to registration.

    Generally I leave an obvious fault to be picked to make the RWC tester happy.

    I just wonder what's going to happen when no matter how carefully he inspects the car there is nothing wrong with it, especially corrosion.

    Seriously Dano, this is restoration of a standard that we are more used to seeing in the Citroen forum . And usually carried out at hourly rates by professional body makers and restorers, costing megabucks.

    You dedication to detail is exceeded only by you pursuit of the tin worm in the car.

    The results are credit to you.
    Wot he said, that's quite a nice job there Dano.

  10. #85
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    Credit were credit is due gentlemen. I would have given up a while ago, if it wasn't for daughter's partner (Dan) who is doing the welding for me. I can weld, but lets just say I don't have Dan's experience. My son is also not far away, he's always ready to lend a hand.

  11. #86
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    Finish welding the patch panels into place today.

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    We decided to leave off the previously removed rear air-vent sections to allow the sandblaster to get in and give that area a good clean up, prior to treating and sealing it closed again.

    Pulled doors, 2 x boot lids and bonnets out of storage to decide on which ones will go for blasting and eventual fitting. After close inspection by Dan, it was decided that all existing door skins are OK or only require minor repairs to bring them up to serviceable state. The bottom of the rear left door will require some attention. The lip/flange is rusted and will require patching, nothing too serious though. It looks as though it has been re-skinned previously, but the frame was not treated/repaired.

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    The better of the two bonnets will also require some rust repairs, again nothing too serious, but it’s in an awkward position, and will take some time to patch.

    Loosely place the radiator support panel into position to check alignment etc. and it fits beautify. Not wishing to sound too smug, but I guess it is a result of all the care taken aligning and welding the other panels etc., into place.

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    Finished off the balance of the grinding today, also fabricated a frame/cradle in preparation to lower Keith and make him mobile, in readiness for the trip to the blasters.

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  12. #87
    Fellow Frogger! Dano's Avatar
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    Solved the problem with the rust in the support panel across the leading edge of the bonnet. It should be arriving from France, in about 10 days.

    This will save a lot of time and mucking around, plus have the bonus of being straight and completely rust free.


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    Last edited by Dano; 5th April 2015 at 02:42 PM.
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  13. #88
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano View Post
    Solved the problem with the rust in the support panel across the leading edge of the bonnet. It should be arrive from France, in about 10 days.

    This will save a lot of time and mucking around, plus have the bonus of being straight and completely rust free.


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    I don't suppose they had two of them there??
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

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  14. #89
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    Finished cleaning away the masses of Sikaflex/silicone sealer from around the doors, where the old rubbers were attached. By the amount of Sikaflex/silicone on each, my guess is the doors must have leaked like a sieve. On the other hand, it may have been just old crappy rubbers. The removal also revealed some additional minor rust spots. Nothing surprises me anymore.

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    Lowered Keith off the axle stands and onto the cradle/frame to put him on the trailer. After some discussion, it was decided the easiest way to get him on the trailer was simply lift him. So with one guy on each corner (thanks to son’s friends), up and on he went. No problems.

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    Tomorrow it’s off to the sandblasters.
    Last edited by Dano; 7th April 2015 at 04:37 AM.
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  15. #90
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    Spent most of yesterday at Unicoatings getting Keith sandblasted.

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    Not everything went to plan. As I had mentioned previously, the body was going to be dipped, well that did not happen, as the tank was not big enough. It was also going to have 2-pack primer applied, but that idea was canned when more rust spots and a really bad previous repair were found. The blasting did not remove all of the existing body sealer, bitumen/soundproofing and copious amounts of Sikaflex in some hard to get to arrears. With time was running out, I decided I would just have to get in there later and remove it. This is mainly up under the dash and in and around were the fuse box is etc.

    Instead of the 2-pack primer, a black etch primer was used just to protect the bare metal, until I complete the repairs. Apparently, it comes off easily with thinners, wet and dry sandpaper and a bit of elbow grease.


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    The roof was not blasted either. In the opinion of the blaster, it was too big and tin of an area to run the risk of warping. There were many coats of paint and one of spray filler/bog. Yep there are alternative methods, i.e. soda blasting etc., but sometimes you just have to make a decision on what you know or do not know. I am sure many have done it before, but I just did not want to risk it.

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    The body came up OK, except for some small rust holes in the front floors, bottom of the ‘B’ pillar on the driver’s side, right-rear wheel arch in the boot and a section of the boot floor. Nothing too serious, just annoying.

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    The ugly bit was the right side wheel arch inside the cabin where the door closes. Whoever did the previous panel work should be #..//**#…….. enough said. I just do not know how someone could do this and sleep easy. I am no panel beater, but to just fill this up with bog is amazing. Done at a cost, I guess. The blaster said, “It was just amazing, all of a sudden bits of bog just started to fly everywhere when the grit hit the area”.

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    Anyhow, it will give me something to do. I have seen this panel on eBay, just cannot remember when or where. I'll find it though!

    The body panels, doors, boot etc, are still in the dipping tank. Dipping is a three-stage process, first into a caustic solution to soften everything, then into an acid tank, then back into the caustic prior to rinsing. If and only if there is some residue will they be blasted.
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    These will also be etch primed. They should be ready for collection on Friday.

    The keen observer of this blog may also notice, that Keith now has a new home. Relocation is just want you need halfway through a resto. This garage is a little shorter than the old one, thus the angle parking.

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  16. #91
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    Man that looks sensational. You are really giving it the boot and well done too.

    It's not fair that you fellas get school holidays to work on projects while the rest of have to do it all after hours but hey, what ever works.

    Keep it coming. GH3

  17. #92
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Dano,

    Try a razor scraper on the roof paint. It's a lot slower than sand blasting or dipping but does a effective job of removing the layers of paint.

    It's also very clean and easy to vacuum up the flakes of paint.

    cheers


    Rob

    EDIT: Try sceneys citrus solvent on the areas of black body deadening/sealant goo it will clean off most bitumen based compounds.

    But not the sikaflex unfortunately.

    http://www.sceneys.com.au/solvents

    Usually available at artists supplies.
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  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano View Post
    Spent most of yesterday at Unicoatings getting Keith sandblasted.

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    Not everything went to plan. As I had mentioned previously, the body was going to be dipped, well that did not happen, as the tank was not big enough. It was also going to have 2-pack primer applied, but that idea was canned when more rust spots and a really bad previous repair were found. The blasting did not remove all of the existing body sealer, bitumen/soundproofing and copious amounts of Sikaflex in some hard to get to arrears. With time was running out, I decided I would just have to get in there later and remove it. This is mainly up under the dash and in and around were the fuse box is etc.

    Instead of the 2-pack primer, a black etch primer was used just to protect the bare metal, until I complete the repairs. Apparently, it comes off easily with thinners, wet and dry sandpaper and a bit of elbow grease.


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    The roof was not blasted either. In the opinion of the blaster, it was too big and tin of an area to run the risk of warping. There were many coats of paint and one of spray filler/bog. Yep there are alternative methods, i.e. soda blasting etc., but sometimes you just have to make a decision on what you know or do not know. I am sure many have done it before, but I just did not want to risk it.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The body came up OK, except for some small rust holes in the front floors, bottom of the ‘B’ pillar on the driver’s side, right-rear wheel arch in the boot and a section of the boot floor. Nothing too serious, just annoying.

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    The ugly bit was the right side wheel arch inside the cabin where the door closes. Whoever did the previous panel work should be #..//**#…….. enough said. I just do not know how someone could do this and sleep easy. I am no panel beater, but to just fill this up with bog is amazing. Done at a cost, I guess. The blaster said, “It was just amazing, all of a sudden bits of bog just started to fly everywhere when the grit hit the area”.

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    After bog blasted away. Click image for larger version. 

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    Anyhow, it will give me something to do. I have seen this panel on eBay, just cannot remember when or where. I'll find it though!

    The body panels, doors, boot etc, are still in the dipping tank. Dipping is a three-stage process, first into a caustic solution to soften everything, then into an acid tank, then back into the caustic prior to rinsing. If and only if there is some residue will they be blasted.
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    These will also be etch primed. They should be ready for collection on Friday.

    The keen observer of this blog may also notice, that Keith now has a new home. Relocation is just want you need halfway through a resto. This garage is a little shorter than the old one, thus the angle parking.

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    Wow I'm very envious of the way your going about this .... I'd love to get a DS hull and panels stripped back like that!

    seeya,
    shane L
    Dano likes this.
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  19. #94
    Fellow Frogger! Dano's Avatar
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    Thanks Robmac,

    I'll give both a try. All advice is greatly appreciated. Its been a steep learning curve for me, as far as the body work goes.

    Cheers,

    Dan

  20. #95
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Easiest way to remove the sikaflex is by throwing some dry ice over it, wait a couple of minutes, then tap it with a hammer. Wear gloves to pick up the pieces before they defrost.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

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  21. #96
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    WOW awesome progress well done the worst is well behind you now.
    Martin.
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  22. #97
    Fellow Frogger! Dano's Avatar
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    Picked up the doors and air vent grill from strippers yesterday. The doors are so much lighter without all the sound proofing bog/tar inside the cavities. The de-skinned frame is a bit ugly, but repairable.

    The boot lid, bonnet and other sundries bits and pieces won’t be ready until later next week.

    The guys at Unicoatings are doing a fantastic job. Phil, whom I dealing with has taken heaps of photos of the stripping process, just have to collect them next week.




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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 69 404 restoration-img_5780.jpg   69 404 restoration-img_5786.jpg   69 404 restoration-img_5793.jpg   69 404 restoration-dscn0881.jpg  

  23. #98
    Fellow Frogger! Dano's Avatar
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    It’s been a good couple of days.

    Collected the rest of the panels etc., from the sandblasters.
    These photos are of the parts/panels after they had been soaked in the caustic tank, then dipped in acid etc.. The paint and bog just came off in sheets and lumps.

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    Found/was given a NOS left side sill and stainless steel trim to match and a set of rear brake backing plates with un-burred brake adjusting nuts. The bonnet support panel has arrived and I found and ordered the wheel arch panel as mentioned in a previous blog.

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    This morning, I started to cut out the new found rust spots and make patches to suit.

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    Interesting to see what can be hidden behind a little bog. On the left front guard, at some stage, someone had screwed a mirror halfway along the top ridge and if I didn't know better, I'd say a grille badge was attached to the back lower section of same guard. The holes look very similar in configuration to a badge. Before I go too far, I'll pull the spare guard out and have a closer look at it. It might now be a better alternative. Less work?

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    The right front guard has been made in two parts (?). Whilst touching up missed bits of paint/primer in corners etc., I notice a line of small pin like holes running vertically, just off centre of the rounded section were the indicators and headlight are mounted. A closer examination revealed a seam weld that runs the full length, top to bottom. I can only imagine this was how it was made, as it is very neat and it finishes in the bottom of the round hole for the headlight and the backing support panel isn't cut/welded. I have two radiator support panels and both of them are fabricated in the same manner. One horizontally and the other vertically. (See image further up the page.) The line across the panel is the weld line.

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    I hope that it is not bad karma, but I put all the panels back on loosely to see what it looks like. Some work will be required to get them to all line up again.

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    Once again, I have scored good neighbors. "We don't mind the noise. For the last two years, Dan (Must be a good bloke with a name like that) two doors up, has been restoring a '57 Chev. We're use to the noise now"


    Pity I go back to work next Monday.
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  24. #99
    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    This is, slowly, becoming a beautiful car. Great work!

  25. #100
    Fellow Frogger! Dano's Avatar
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    It might be putting the horse before the cart. But this is my new toy to play with in my spare time.

    After watching a few other threads on A/F I got to thinking, maybe I could do my own upholstery and hood lining. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

    Good karma returned, I wasn't even looking for one, but I was in the right place at the right time.

    Now I'm coping grief from number one son about going soft and trading my man cave, for a sewing room...

    At least I have plenty of time to practice on it before it is really required.

    Hopefully on Saturday, the rest of the lower front end bits (sole plates, subframes and cross members etc )will be welded into place.

    Click image for larger version. 

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