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Thread: 69 404 restoration

  1. #51
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    Not that they can't be chromed, I was told that silvering is the only way they will work properly.


    Quote Originally Posted by alpine View Post
    I believe there is a business near Castlemaine Vic, that can chrome anything.


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  2. #52
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    If your lenses are just ok replacing the old globe with halogen one [ fits straight in] makes a huge difference and is quite legal - 60/55w does the job well.Neil

  3. #53
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    Dano,

    Have a look through this link. . .

    HCVC Vintage Truck Forum - Re Silvering Headlights
    . . .some good info and these guys seem quite reasonable.

    >>Zeus Products<<





    Cheers
    Chris
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    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Thanks Chris,

    It made for interesting reading. You have to wonder about some people though, who'd use spray on product as a reflective surface for headlights. Excuse the puns, but dim witted and not very bright.

    Cheers,

    Dan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano View Post
    Thanks Chris,

    It made for interesting reading. You have to wonder about some people though, who'd use spray on product as a reflective surface for headlights. Excuse the puns, but dim witted and not very bright.

    Cheers,

    Dan
    For sure, they're out there though

    Interesting though that straight chroming is not the recommended process, vacuum metallising gets the nod and really not that expensive - pretty impressive result.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  6. #56
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    Very interesting comments. Zeus seems to be the place. I wonder if they can chrome plastic compounds (N3 306's have a chromed front section which looks mouldy after nearly 20 years or so. I must contact them.
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  7. #57
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    Hi Dano,
    I have read your thread with great interest. You are doing a fantastic and very thorough job. With regard to the headlights, I agree that vacuum metallising is the way to go. There is a place in Caloundra called Hyqual. They are at 31 Enterprise St, Caloundra and their number is 1800 77 77 44. They specialise in vacuum metallising and did a 1st class job on the reflectors for my CX Prestige. I pulled the headlights apart, took the reflectors to them, and they came out looking as good as new. The CX reflectors (from memory) are two piece....a metal part at the rear which holds the bulb, and a plastic part that fits onto the front of that, and the glass lens is on the front of that. I used a non-corrosive loctite sealant to seal it all up. Once they were assembled, they worked fantastic. They still look great.
    I also got Hyqual to do the headlights in my 1958 Rover 105R, as they are the old type with the three spoked thingy inside the lens and the only new replacements available are cheap copies that don't have the "Lucas" (lord of darkness, lol) printed in the middle of the three spoked thingie. I think the Rover headlights cost me about $40 each to have done.
    I recently rang Hyqual again to organise to get the headlights on my '87 Toyota Tercel done. They're a similar headlight to the Corollas of the same "vintage", and I was quoted about $140 for the pair.
    In the case of my Citroen......wow. I couldn't believe the difference in the amount of light coming out of those suckers after they were done!!
    Cheers
    Steve
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  8. #58
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    It is almost time for a 'sticky' to be done regarding who/what/where and how of specialist repairers and the locations.
    Hopefully it can be done with a drop down menu so it is quick to use and any discussion is not blocking traffic. The last three or so posts can be included as a reference but a reverse scroll is available to keep a link active. (I am starting to loath 'stickies' for events that are well past.)
    I'll have a ponder on this and see if I can sketch out a framework that could work, I'm no computer guru so maybe that's an advantage.
    Brendan.

  9. #59
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    Hi Steve,

    Thanks for the heads up on Hyqual. It's always better to deal local if possible.

    The prices are very reasonable as well.

    Cheers


    Dan

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    When i first bought my Durant, the reflectors had been chromed and the lights were abysmal. I had them re-silvered and the imorovement was amazing, now they are just hopeless. Definitey go for silver plating if you can find somewhere to get it done. 404 headlights are not fantastic at the best of times, so they need every bit of assistance you can give them. A decent set of halogen bulbs doesn't go amiss either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano View Post
    Hi Steve,

    Thanks for the heads up on Hyqual. It's always better to deal local if possible.

    The prices are very reasonable as well.

    Cheers


    Dan
    Yes, the vacuum metallising is very effective. I assume that this is also known as silvering. I sealed my headlights up "good and proper" and they've lasted really well. I had the Citroen headlights done about 10 years ago. The Rover headlights were done probably 7 or 8 years ago(?). Can't remember exactly. But I do remember that I was told not to touch the silver finish as it's very soft and will tarnish/fingerprint on contact. But wow......the difference IS amazing that first time you drive at night. I remember taking the Prestige out that first night and marvelling at the ability to SEE where I was going.
    Cheers
    Steve

  12. #62
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    Default Keith's new rear end.

    After many months of procrastinating and practicing with the welder, I finally conceded defeat and asked my daughter’s partner who is a panel beater welder to do the welding on Keith’s (The car’s name) rear end. Although I can weld, sort of, I just did not want to stuff it. Basically, the job involved completely rebuilding the whole rear section. Even as we were prepping bits yesterday, more rust was found in the boot floor, thus new sections had to be fabricated as we went.

    Amongst the tools Dan bought around with him, was one best described as a buff wheel on steroids.
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    It's sole purpose is to remove rust. It comes with an array of wire wheels and pads. The bristles range from soft to hard and are bent to about a 30-degree angle. The bent bristles remove the scale and pitted rust spots by clawing at the surface. Once the surface is clean, the bristle tips scratch down into the pit marks and remove any rust in the cavities. It is hard-core and in one area, it just ripped holes about 6mm in diameter into the floor.

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    Getting everything to line up was fairly simple, because all the major panels were NOS items I’d sourced off the internet over the past couple of years. This process was also helped by the information (some 30 pages) I received from the Peugeot Museum, on how to assemble a 404. It is all in French, but a picture is worth a thousand words.
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    Originally assembled on jigs, there is only four places during the entire build process, where measurements are used to check alignment. One being the distance from the base of the rear ‘C’ pillar to the end of the rear wing. Tolerance for this measurement is 795mm + or – 5mm. If you were rough enough, there could be a 10mm difference between both sides, if full tolerances were used.

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    Unfortunately, though the panels I made needed a little fine-tuning before they fitted correctly, but hey they eventually fitted and I was rapt. When we refitted the boot lid to check alignments etc., we were not sure about the amount of overhang the boot lid had over the rear panel, I rang a mate and asked him to check his 404, better still, he offered to bring his over so we could check for ourselves. Perfect!!
    Once all the panel/sections were spotted welded into place, I was feeling pretty pleased with myself. Self-gratification is poor form I know, but I have not stopped smiling all afternoon.

    Dan is coming back during the week to finish stitching it all together. Then it is onto the front end.

    The corner has well and truly been turned.

    Cheers,

    Dano
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 69 404 restoration-dscn0480.jpg  
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  13. #63
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    Default Today's efforts.

    Unfortunately, my welder didn't come during the week, so we made up for it today.

    Another day is planned for tomorrow and hopefully the whole rear end should be completely welded into place.

    One can never have enough clamps!

    Setting up the rear corners.
    69 404 restoration-dscn0503.jpg69 404 restoration-dscn0499.jpg69 404 restoration-dscn0500.jpg69 404 restoration-dscn0501.jpg


    Checking and aligning the fabricated rear cross-member box section.
    69 404 restoration-dscn0507.jpg69 404 restoration-dscn0508.jpg69 404 restoration-dscn0509.jpg
    It was slightly twisted when made, so a couple of diagonal slits were inserted to allow it to be pushed/caressed into it's correct alignment. The third picture shows the heat penetration when welding the box section to the rear beaver panel.

    Views below are from underneath the right rear corner. A little more work required to get it aligned correctly and looking tidy.
    69 404 restoration-dscn0506.jpg69 404 restoration-dscn0504.jpg69 404 restoration-dscn0505.jpg

    Pretty happy with today's efforts. It is amazing how long it takes to just do the little things. Patience was never one of my strong points.
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  14. #64
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    Default Today's progress.

    The thermometer may have shown 37 degrees, but it seemed a lot hotter in the garage. Too hot to do a full days work, but progress was achieved. Albeit limited.

    Whilst Dan continued with the welder, I continued to modify and fabricate various parts.

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    The closer the finish gets, the more little things need to be modified etc. I guess this was to be expected, considering the whole rear end has basically been completely rebuilt. The next task is to modify the corner brackets that tie the each corner together and hold the jacking point pods in place. Each is out about 2 to 3 mm, but in different places.

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    Although the rear is almost welded into place, a lot of time will have to be spent with various grinding devices to clean up and level all the plug welds. The plug welding process has gone fairly well, when the original panels etc. were removed with a spot weld remover drill bit, it left neat 6 mm holes that acts as the access point for the new weld. The new panels are clamped into place then welded together though the pre-drilled holes. I guess this is standard practice, but it just seems logical.


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    Donor patch panel welded into place (Thanks Bruce). By taking his time with this Dan, achieved very little distortion in either the patch panel or guard.

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    I must have the best neighbours, they have never complained about the noise. After spending two days basically cutting, banging, grinding and generally make lots of noise, all my neighbour could say was "Do you mind if I see what you've been doing. It's great to hear you doing getting stuck into it"
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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano
    Amongst the tools Dan bought around with him, was one best described as a buff wheel on steroids.
    Click image for larger version. It's sole purpose is to remove rust. It comes with an array of wire wheels and pads. The bristles range from soft to hard and are bent to about a 30-degree angle. The bent bristles remove the scale and pitted rust spots by clawing at the surface. Once the surface is clean, the bristle tips scratch down into the pit marks and remove any rust in the cavities. It is hard-core and in one area, it just ripped holes about 6mm in diameter into the floor.
    Dano
    That tool looks a bit like one of these.

    Geiger AIR Rust AND Paint Removal Tool GP2001A | eBay

    Would be a step up from my B & D Workwheel.

    Paul.
    Last edited by 504-504-504; 18th January 2015 at 11:17 PM.

  16. #66
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    Hi Paul,

    That's the one. Wow didn't realize they were that price.

    After giving it a workout over the last few weeks, it would on my to buy list if I was to go down this track again.

    It is savage on rust etc. The other good feature is you can resharpen/shape the tips on a linishing belt. Comes up trumps each time. We've done it twice now. Don't think we'd get another reshape, as the bristles are starting to lose shape.

    The other advantage is you don't end up looking like a echindna, with buff wheel bristles stuck everywhere.

    Cheers

    Dano

  17. #67
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    Wow, Dano........what a great thread! Absolutely amazing job! It's so good to see someone doing this sort of work and doing such a thorough job of it. When you're finished, you'll be sure of having a car that has been repaired properly, with no future surprises waiting to rear their ugly heads. Just keep chipping away mate....there's no time limit or finish date "set in stone" hey. You'll get there, and wow what a magic vehicle you're going to have when it's all done!!!

  18. #68
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    Default Another good find!

    This arrived in the mail today.

    A few weeks ago, I found this on eBay, France. I couldn’t believe my luck, that I was only person to place a bid. Maybe I just paid too much for it. But as I tell myself, if I was happy to pay the asking price, it’s a bargain.

    It is a complete kit. It came with the wheel, pinion, new centre bolts, seals, gaskets and all the bearings to undertake a complete rebuild.

    I guess this now means that I will have to overhaul one of the three gearboxes. If I don’t, it will be the only mechanical part of the car that won’t be overhauled or replaced.


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  19. #69
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    I think I have the special tool kit required to set this up, I can check what it is exactly.
    Never bothered using it before, just did it by feel, as never had a diff worth it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dano View Post
    This arrived in the mail today.

    A few weeks ago, I found this on eBay, France. I couldn’t believe my luck, that I was only person to place a bid. Maybe I just paid too much for it. But as I tell myself, if I was happy to pay the asking price, it’s a bargain.

    It is a complete kit. It came with the wheel, pinion, new centre bolts, seals, gaskets and all the bearings to undertake a complete rebuild.

    I guess this now means that I will have to overhaul one of the three gearboxes. If I don’t, it will be the only mechanical part of the car that won’t be overhauled or replaced.


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  20. #70
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    Cheers Graham,

    please let me know.

    Thanks,
    Dan

  21. #71
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    All the panels for the rear-end are now in place. A fair amount of grinding is required to completely finish the transformation. It has taken a while, but the wait has been worth it.

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    The front left inner-guard has been removed, ready for the replacement. Breaking/drilling the spot welds up the firewall and across the bulkhead was easy. The 20 plus welds around the strut support were a bitch to undo. Around the strut support, there is three layers, the thicker strut plate is welded to a thinner (.9mm) panel and this is obviously done before the box section upper sub-frame is welded into place. It was impossible to get to the welds, unfortunately, the thinner section sustained a fair bit of damaged whilst trying to separate the two. The panel had not rust, so it was just a case of weld up the splits and put in one patch where a reasonable size hole was torn when removing the panels.

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    Hopefully if all goes to plan, Keith should be visiting the sandblaster in the school holidays. I have decided not put the front panel back on until he comes back from the blaster. The panel is a donor panel and it has a fair amount of tar and rubbish on it. This way it can be blasted, straightened and fitted when he returns. Another advantage of doing it later is, I will be able to take all the front sub-frames etc. to the blaster and get them cleaned up and undercoated with 2pack primmer before being fitted (Most of the panels are new old stock with their fair share of surface rust). This will allow me to get up inside the bottom of the channels on the inner guards. The plan is apply heaps of rust preventatives prior to assembly, followed by a second layer via a cavity spray applicator, when all the panels are finished.

    I keep saying, just another day or so, but something new always pops up. At times, I have questioned my sanity, but after efforts like Saturday’s, I get as excited as a young boy receiving birthday presents.
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  22. #72
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    Smaller effort today, but the front left corner and floor are now completed. Well almost, except for the grinding. Not looking forward to having to grind all the repaired areas

    Started on the right side, but time and work commitments bet me/us. The old right inner guard has been removed and a patch for the rusted/brake fluid damage front right floor/firewall has been made.

    Next Saturday should see the front right corner finished, and then there is only three small areas left. Fingers crossed.

    Cheers,Click image for larger version. 

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    Dano
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  23. #73
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    Gees that's coming along beautifully Dano, I didn't realise your car needed that much repair and congratulations on the quality of your repair work, you are in a league of your own there.

    I hope your workshop can stay that clean and pristine during the course of the resto, well done and keep the pics coming..

    GH3

  24. #74
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Dano,

    I've been watching with fascination and admiration at the quality and quantity of restoration work you are doing.

    The car will be better than new when finished. I don't think there will another 404 on the planet which has been restored to similar standard.

    However I continue to have one nagging question. How will you keep the car rust free for ever. Granted it may not be driven that much and will stored under cover but I'd suggest now is the ideal time to start thinking about keeping the oxide ants at bay - forever.

    Are you intending to the have car cleaned by immersion in a caustic hot bath?

    This would make painting easier because all paint, grease , sound and rust () treatments are completely gone . All nooks and crannies are clean too. There is no risk of the car falling apart like the rusty versions.

    I wonder if there is an electrolytic rust treatment available these days? I not I'd open up/ add some more/ the body plugs holes (something 404s lacked from new) to enable comprehensive rust treatment of the internals of the new work.

    cheers


    Rob
    Last edited by robmac; 16th March 2015 at 07:55 AM.
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


  25. #75
    Fellow Frogger! Dano's Avatar
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    Cheers Graham,

    My wife had only one request when I started and that was she still wanted to park her car in the garage at night. Reasonable request and it makes sure that I completely clean the garage every day when I'm finished. Makes it easier to find things as well.

    Dano
    addo likes this.

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