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  1. #26
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    Dear Dano

    Agree with Rob - am doing similar project to yours and finding crimes in similar places, although have been a bit luckier. Second body can be a life saver, but is most valuable as organ donor, especially after the work you have already put in. Will probably have some or al of the same problems in the same places.


    Donor car has saved my arse on a number of occasions, most notably with windscreen surround - mine was like yours and we despaired ( fabrication from scratch is job for the exceptionally gifted. Rob, who is doing all of the hard stuff, is exceptionally gifted, but even he was looking a bit pale at the thought). Had a flash of inspiration and looked at donor car and this bit was OK, so after a lot of drilling we had replacement.

    My donor body is in Melbourne ( white '69 404 ). I am not using the back bits, so have not looked in great detail at their condition, but could report if you tell me exactly what you need. My recollection is that they are not too bad, but I could be wrong.

    We are now approaching the scary "how do I put the bloody thing back together" stage and body is essentially done. My plans for the donor car are to remove some mechanical bits and to then find a good home for the rest of it, ideally not a crusher. Transport would be more than the car is worth(unless you really desperate ) but I could do some dissection for particular parts and mail them up.

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    Will be down at the car on Monday so will have a look and take some photos.

    email is watkina@mac.com

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Watkins View Post
    Dear Dano

    Agree with Rob - am doing similar project to yours and finding crimes in similar places, although have been a bit luckier. Second body can be a life saver, but is most valuable as organ donor, especially after the work you have already put in. Will probably have some or al of the same problems in the same places.


    Donor car has saved my arse on a number of occasions, most notably with windscreen surround - mine was like yours and we despaired ( fabrication from scratch is job for the exceptionally gifted. Rob, who is doing all of the hard stuff, is exceptionally gifted, but even he was looking a bit pale at the thought). Had a flash of inspiration and looked at donor car and this bit was OK, so after a lot of drilling we had replacement.

    My donor body is in Melbourne ( white '69 404 ). I am not using the back bits, so have not looked in great detail at their condition, but could report if you tell me exactly what you need. My recollection is that they are not too bad, but I could be wrong.

    We are now approaching the scary "how do I put the bloody thing back together" stage and body is essentially done. My plans for the donor car are to remove some mechanical bits and to then find a good home for the rest of it, ideally not a crusher. Transport would be more than the car is worth(unless you really desperate ) but I could do some dissection for particular parts and mail them up.

    Will be down at the car on Monday so will have a look and take some photos.

    email is watkina@mac.com
    Dear Dano

    Update:

    HAVe had a look and it looks as if my donor has rust starting at margins of floor and back panel, also at base of side strut inside mudguard , where it joins the floor posteriorly. Upper bits of strut look pristine, but it is generally the bottom bit which goes

    It looks superficially not too bad, but our experience with mine was that once unpicked , new crimes emerged and I suspect that it will be pretty much the same in this one.

    Fabrication of new bits at this end of car was not hard ( at least for Rob ). You are clearly able and well supported on the fabrication front, so it may be worth just persevering.

    My rear window surround looks good, unless the surface gloss hides deeper crimes - there is certainly no rust at margins and it feels solid. I have not taken it apart, as we didn't need it and I did not want to do any unnecessary destruction, but if you think it would help, I am not likely to have much use for it ( mine is good now and next 404 project likely to be a Ute )


    BEst Wishes

    Andrew

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    Hi Rob and Andrew,

    Thanks for your words of encouragement.

    You have both confirmed my instincts that I should just persevere.

    I was just living the dream that there may have been a good body lying around somewhere.

    Now it is time to trust my welding abilities and start putting it back together. It has been intersesting pulling it back to stage that I have as it has given me a better idea of how they were put together in the first place. The info from the Peugeot museum has also been valuable.

    I keep you posted.

    Cheers,

    Dan

  4. #29
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    Default Things are moving slowly

    Things have been moving along slowly, but time is on my side.

    About seven weeks ago, I had the front and rear panels for under the windscreens fabricated. Best week Iíve had in ages, Ray Taylor out Ipswich way offered to make the parts, so long as I helped. We spent a week making the panel. Ray is well into his 70ís and has plenty of stories. All interesting. (As I said before, time was on my side and being on holidays helped). He is very old school and besides bending the profile for the rear section on a folder, everything else was done by hand. Not having the car there was certainly a bit of a hassle. The glass plugs helped a bit, but each night Iíd take the bits home and tinker and mark adjustments etc.

    The rear panel was made in three sections, as it was just too complicated to be made as one piece. The corners were a good fit, but the middle bit with its some six longitudinal folds was not too successful. It just would bend down or backwards to get the curved profile. It was decided that an original one with little or no rust would have to be used. Luckily Bruce Llewellyn had a few wrecks out on his property and the best was chosen. 69 404 restoration-donor-fab-panel.jpg 69 404 restoration-back-right-corner.jpg

    It would appear that Iíve got to it just in time as well. There was no obvious external damage/rust, but once removed there was evidence of some deterioration underneath. Nothing sandblasting and a good coat of POR15 won't fix. Both the original panel from my car and donor panel had bare metal surfaces in the centre part. Obviously the factory couldnít get a spray gun into the cavity.

    The front panel was once piece, but it was easier to cut it into four sections to make the final adjustments and get it to fit.69 404 restoration-new-old-panel.jpg69 404 restoration-fabricating-front-panel.jpg All up I am pretty happy with what was achieved. Thanks to Ray, I learnt heaps and this knowledge will help me as I progress. They might look a bit bashed and bruised, but hey we/I made them.



    Some of the parts for the repairs to the boot floor and rear sections have also been fabricated. It is amazing what can be achieved with a good selection of hammers and various sized steel bar, both flat and round.
    69 404 restoration-boot-bits.jpg69 404 restoration-boot-clamped-place.jpg69 404 restoration-brace-template.jpgClick image for larger version. 

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    The steering rack has been overhauled. Third time lucky. Should have known better then try to choose good secondhand components from various racks and to make a good one. Nothing fits, different wear patterns etc. just plain dumb. The third rack came out of the Rocky wreck (see earlier posting). Besides a slight bit of wear/notchy feeling just on centre it moves freely. Besides the casing, rack and pinion everything else was replaced.
    69 404 restoration-rack-1.jpg 69 404 restoration-rack-o-hauled.jpg
    The front struts will hopefully be re-assembled next weekend. They to have been completely stripped, sandblasted and repainted. The springs were checked and they appear to still be within original specs, so a quick sandblast, coat of paint and back in they will go.
    69 404 restoration-springs-painted.jpg 69 404 restoration-backing-plates-painted.jpg 69 404 restoration-strut-turntables.jpg 69 404 restoration-painted-bits.jpg

    Although I did look for a new body recently, Iíve decided to continue with what Iíve got, after some sage advice from fellow Froggers.

    I do have all the body panels both new (Genuine Peugeot NOS) and fabricated to start putting it back together. Actually, I have just about every part both mechanical and cosmetic to complete the restoration. It is amazing what you will find on the web if you search long and hard enough. My wife once said, ďThat I had to be looking at unmentionable adult web sites (porn) because she doubted anyone could spend that much time looking for car partsĒ. One day, maybe when it is finished, I will post the complete list of what Iíve bought (replaced).

    Sooner or later, Iíve just got to bite the bullet and trust my welding ability and start putting it back together.
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  5. #30
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    Fabulous work there Dano, let me know if I can help with any plastic parts/repairs.

    One good turn and all that..

  6. #31
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    Thanks Graham,

    Maybe not plastic bits as they are pretty much covered, but certainly your contacts for upholstery etc.

    Cheers,

    Dan

  7. #32
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    Default Door Pads

    Todays a good day!

    I've been searching for a set of good door pads since I started the restoration two years ago.

    About two months ago whilst searching/buying on EBAy, I made contact with guy in Germany who told me a friend of his would have a set and he'd contact him for me. Long story cut short, they arrived today. One is brand new still in its original box. They also came with a role of new felt strip (between pads and window glass) to replace the ones on the three secondhand pads.

    And yes they were reasonably priced. Freight wasn't too bad either. 9 days from Germany to Melbourne another 5 days Melbourne to Brisbane.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #33
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    Default Front Struts assembles

    Assembled the front legs today. Unfortunately I did not get to fit the hubs and new discs. When spraying the hubs with calliper paint on Friday night, I didn't read the re-coat instructions until too late. Because I did not respray within one hour, they now have to wait 7 days for the next coat. Bugger! Something to do next weekend.
    Anyhow I'm pretty happy with the end result.

    69 404 restoration-dscn0378.jpg 69 404 restoration-dscn0379.jpg 69 404 restoration-dscn0384.jpg

    69 404 restoration-dscn0369.jpgThe blue and white paint/stripes on the coils are as per the factory/parts manual coding. Maybe a little to much detail.

    69 404 restoration-dscn0375.jpg Home made spring compressors. There is just too much travel for the generic ones from Supercheap/Repco. Unrestrained they are about 1/3 bigger then assembled.

  9. #34
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    That looks really good. Even authentic spring marking color "slashes"

    You obviously value your well being, like me, my spring compressor and clamp is almost identical.

    I shudder when I see some of cobbled up, downright dangerous methods used to compress springs.

    Just word, when fitting the legs to the car, the manual suggests using the weight of the car to compress the springs, then using a 12mm tapered rod to align the cross member holes to bottom control arm. To allow the bolt to be fitted.

    I've found the super cheap hook type compressors useful to compress the assembled spring. This will allow the fitting of the control arm bolts while the car is still on stands. I find it easier to work while the whole front is lifted.

    Your car will be joy behold when completed.
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  10. #35
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    Default Which headlight pots are correct?

    Hi,

    Can anyone help?

    When tinkering yesterday, I notice I've got two sets of headlight pots that are different. They both appear to be genuine. The more pointed version are the ones that originally came out of the car. I can only ever remember seeing the more rounded versions in all my old cars, but that was 30 years ago, so the memory is a little vague.

    It would appears that I could insert non genuine seal beams more easily into the pointed version, as they came with a ring that holds the light in place and it screws into the backing plate. The parts manual shows the ring version, but it appears to have a rounded pot.

    Any info would be greatly appreciated.

    Dan
    69 404 restoration-dscn0388.jpg 69 404 restoration-dscn0386.jpg 69 404 restoration-dscn0387.jpg

  11. #36
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    You want the one not painted white, which is the original.
    Please don't put sealed beams in the car it will destroy the frontal styling of the car and in my view make the restoration pointless.
    A straight 404 with the correct lights and painted rims, not chrome, looks fabulous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dano View Post
    Hi,

    Can anyone help?

    When tinkering yesterday, I notice I've got two sets of headlight pots that are different. They both appear to be genuine. The more pointed version are the ones that originally came out of the car. I can only ever remember seeing the more rounded versions in all my old cars, but that was 30 years ago, so the memory is a little vague.

    It would appears that I could insert non genuine seal beams more easily into the pointed version, as they came with a ring that holds the light in place and it screws into the backing plate. The parts manual shows the ring version, but it appears to have a rounded pot.

    Any info would be greatly appreciated.

    Dan
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  12. #37
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    From memory the sedan and commercial vehicles had different headlights, and consequently different buckets.
    The ute at home is quite probably a conglomeration of sedan and ute parts, so it's of little help. I know it has chrome headlight surrounds, whereas it should be colour matched to the car.
    I've always preferred the more bling surrounds. Weren't the chrome surrounds only offered on 1969 on vehicles?
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  13. #38
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    As I interpret the images, the LHS bowls in images are the correct bowls (as per GW)

    The others look like something cobbled up to accept a sealed beam 7 inch lamp unit. They may be a BMC head light bowl.
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    1970!

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    Thanks for the feedback guys,

    Graham, I am with you on your thoughts about the sealed beams. It was just a thought if I can't find a decent set of SEV Marchals. I know I can get some cheap non-genuine ones from Franzose etc., but they are a little suspect re the reflective quality. Franzose mention something along this line on their website.

    Does anyone have a set or know where I can obtain the Valeo Marchal replicas that were available a while ago? Or the last option is to have an old set re-silvered/re-chromed. On that one, I’ve been told chroming headlight pots does not comply with ADR’s etc. Is this true?

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    Silver is the only way to go, nothing else will work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dano View Post
    Thanks for the feedback guys,

    Graham, I am with you on your thoughts about the sealed beams. It was just a thought if I can't find a decent set of SEV Marchals. I know I can get some cheap non-genuine ones from Franzose etc., but they are a little suspect re the reflective quality. Franzose mention something along this line on their website.

    Does anyone have a set or know where I can obtain the Valeo Marchal replicas that were available a while ago? Or the last option is to have an old set re-silvered/re-chromed. On that one, I’ve been told chroming headlight pots does not comply with ADR’s etc. Is this true?

  17. #42
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    I'm amazed you built up a windscreen surround. I don't think I'd ever be that brave. Out of interest, have you test fitted a windscreen to see if it'll fit and be leak free Those patch panels you have made are incredible. Everytime I've tried to make even the most simple of shapes, it's turned out a big mess Did you find the "exploded" fabrication diagrams in a manual, or make them yourself

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    I’ve been told chroming headlight pots does not comply with ADR’s etc. Is this true?
    Resurfacing the refectrors in not chroming, it's called electrodesposition. It done by a specialist company. It will apply a coating to the reflector as per brand new.

    As to ADRs , not many people will have seen a brand new 404 in the flesh, let alone the RWC testers. So I wouldn't worry too much.

    PS: I had to explain to the alignment guy about adjusting toe in/out on a single tie rod end on a mates 404. And show him how to move the steering wheel to centre it afterwards.

    He was so embarrassed he didn't charge.

    Don't worry about RWC - I am positive you will know more about the car than tester.
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  19. #44
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    Hi Shane,

    The panels are yet to be fitted. As I have said before, I excel in procrastination when it comes to the welding stage. Anyhow I digress. Unfortunately there were no plans/templates available for the panels, so before I took to them with a drill and grinder, I made fibreglass moulds of both panels. Rough but valuable!

    The way we made the templates was fairly agricultural, but effective. Using various bits of paper, it was pressed into the existing panel corners and curves. Then taped up to prevent movement and then using a pencil drew lines on the paper on the out and insides of the curves and folds. When the paper was removed, masking tape was carefully laid (not stretched) at intervals across the profiles top to bottom. Again the fold marks were marked on the masking tape. The paper was laid out on the sheet metal and using a scribe the pencil contour lines were scratched onto the surface. The masking tape was removed and carefully laid across the scratch marks to gauge accuracy. This was done a couple of times, as we weren’t 100% happy with the alignments.

    69 404 restoration-img_1556.jpg 69 404 restoration-img_1557.jpg

    Then using electric shears the base outlines were cut. That’s when the fun begun! Using the square edge of a large brake press as a anvil the shapes were dress on the edge with an array of mallets, hammers and of all things a brickies bolster (Chisel). The wide blade prevented the overproduction of dints an ordinary cold chisel would have produced. The cutting edge was also ground into a curve to prevent puncturing the .9 mm metal. An oxy was utilised to help heat shrink/stretch some of the curves. The heat marks can be seen in the photos. The same process was used front and rear.

    69 404 restoration-img_1558.jpg 69 404 restoration-img_1560.jpg 69 404 restoration-img_1559.jpg

    As for the curvature across the panel, that was achieved by placing the panel ends up on blocks of timber and using the bolster and a heavy engineers hammer, starting in the middle and working outwards with lesser force the curve was created. A lot of SWAG (Scientific wild arse guess) or trial and error was used at this stage.
    The 10mm windscreen supports were created by using a block of steel welded to a bench, the shape/return was dressed into the panel using the bolster again.

    Ray Taylor, the guy who helped me, is from the old school and just a wizard to watch. He taught me so much.

    Unfortunately though, the middle section of the rear panel was not a success and I’ve reverted to using a panel from a donor wreck. A few minor rust repairs are required before it can be reused, but in the end it will look a lot better. The fabricated corners will be smeared in lanolin to prevent rusting and kept for another day or somebody who needs to do a rust repair.

    As for fitting windscreens I’m nowhere near ready to do that not yet. Again I took plenty of measurements and photographs (thank God for digital cameras), so I’ll just have to wait and see in the long run. The removed panels though do line up with inner panels, like rear parcel shelf and dash vent, so hopefully it should be OK. The front panel will be covered with a genuine NOS Bay Window panel, I found on the web.

    Cheers,

    Dan

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano View Post
    Hi Shane,

    The panels are yet to be fitted. As I have said before, I excel in procrastination when it comes to the welding stage. Anyhow I digress. Unfortunately there were no plans/templates available for the panels, so before I took to them with a drill and grinder, I made fibreglass moulds of both panels. Rough but valuable!

    The way we made the templates was fairly agricultural, but effective. Using various bits of paper, it was pressed into the existing panel corners and curves. Then taped up to prevent movement and then using a pencil drew lines on the paper on the out and insides of the curves and folds. When the paper was removed, masking tape was carefully laid (not stretched) at intervals across the profiles top to bottom. Again the fold marks were marked on the masking tape. The paper was laid out on the sheet metal and using a scribe the pencil contour lines were scratched onto the surface. The masking tape was removed and carefully laid across the scratch marks to gauge accuracy. This was done a couple of times, as we weren’t 100% happy with the alignments.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Then using electric shears the base outlines were cut. That’s when the fun begun! Using the square edge of a large brake press as a anvil the shapes were dress on the edge with an array of mallets, hammers and of all things a brickies bolster (Chisel). The wide blade prevented the overproduction of dints an ordinary cold chisel would have produced. The cutting edge was also ground into a curve to prevent puncturing the .9 mm metal. An oxy was utilised to help heat shrink/stretch some of the curves. The heat marks can be seen in the photos. The same process was used front and rear.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    As for the curvature across the panel, that was achieved by placing the panel ends up on blocks of timber and using the bolster and a heavy engineers hammer, starting in the middle and working outwards with lesser force the curve was created. A lot of SWAG (Scientific wild arse guess) or trial and error was used at this stage.
    The 10mm windscreen supports were created by using a block of steel welded to a bench, the shape/return was dressed into the panel using the bolster again.

    Ray Taylor, the guy who helped me, is from the old school and just a wizard to watch. He taught me so much.

    Unfortunately though, the middle section of the rear panel was not a success and I’ve reverted to using a panel from a donor wreck. A few minor rust repairs are required before it can be reused, but in the end it will look a lot better. The fabricated corners will be smeared in lanolin to prevent rusting and kept for another day or somebody who needs to do a rust repair.

    As for fitting windscreens I’m nowhere near ready to do that not yet. Again I took plenty of measurements and photographs (thank God for digital cameras), so I’ll just have to wait and see in the long run. The removed panels though do line up with inner panels, like rear parcel shelf and dash vent, so hopefully it should be OK. The front panel will be covered with a genuine NOS Bay Window panel, I found on the web.

    Cheers,

    Dan
    Dano,

    It's a pity your are not near a TAFE College that offers a metal fabrication short course.

    A few years ago I did a short course Kangan Batman Richmond Vic.

    They had one of these Eckold multi function shrinker/ stretcher/ planisher.

    Beware some metal working porn in this link! Especially the videos at the bottom of the page.

    Metal Forming Machinery | Headland

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  21. #46
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    I used to get the reflectors re chromed or re silvered providing the metalwork was good enough. That business is now long gone, but you could consider getting that done if you know a chrominance business near home.

    Marschal type lenses can still be found (I think I have 1), and it wouldn't be too hard to make up a suitable rubber gasket.
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  22. #47
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    I believe there is a business near Castlemaine Vic, that can chrome anything.

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    Headlight buckets were different depending on the brand of headlight, Cibie or Marchal. Our [long gone ] 404 wagon was African spec and had Cibie lights and matching buckets. Back in the 90's I was unable to source Cibies, so we had to make do with buckets from other brands to accommodate semi sealed 7 inch Hellas. Utes and Wagons often had Cibies apparently but these will not go into a Marshal bucket.

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    Yes, all the wagons and utes had Cibies, these were height adjustable.
    There was a batch of 404 sedans in 1967 that had Ducellier.
    Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by geedee View Post
    Headlight buckets were different depending on the brand of headlight, Cibie or Marchal. Our [long gone ] 404 wagon was African spec and had Cibie lights and matching buckets. Back in the 90's I was unable to source Cibies, so we had to make do with buckets from other brands to accommodate semi sealed 7 inch Hellas. Utes and Wagons often had Cibies apparently but these will not go into a Marshal bucket.

  25. #50
    1000+ Posts
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    Dec 2005
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    I have one headlight in need of refurbishment - lens and base.

    If all else fails (IE no one closer), then chap used by 59Floride in the Genenieve restoration would be able to do the job
    1998 Peugeot 406 D8SV Manual
    1999 Peugeot 406 D8ST Auto
    2002 Peugeot 406 D9SV Manual
    1994 Peuegot 306 N3 Cabriolet Manual
    1994 Peugeot 306 XR N3 Hatch
    1995 Peugeot 505 GTI executive
    1976 Peugeot 504 Sedan - Now sold

    Over 60 Pugs in my time
    Gerry Mullock

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