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Thread: Matra Jet 6 restoration.

  1. #76
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Welcome aboard Tony, you will enjoy the knowledge ride here.

    Never had an idea it was you.

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    Frans.
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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    Welcome aboard Tony, you will enjoy the knowledge ride here.

    Never had an idea it was you.

    Frans.

    Thanks Frans. You going to be at Hampton Downs next weekend?

    Tony
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

  3. #78
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Some progress with the Matra amongst other things.

    We have loaded the Matra onto a car trailer. The little wheels that the body ids on at the moment works a treat. We got it on and off without any hassle or effort. It is standing at the fiber glass shop now and he has to close the roof where the sunroof is plus a few other odds and ends like closing the holes where the right hand drive mods were and a few strengthening points that were noticed as we went along.

    All the bearings for the gearbox have been bought and the assembly is all that is needed now. I am not changing the front bearing at the end where the pinion is, thankfully it is in a good condition as is some of the others. The bad ones are the easy ones to change. The casings have been bead blasted and I will cover it with clearcoat to keep it as neat and tidy as possible.

    Soon we will assemble the engine and gearbox and then it can be mounted in the chassis. I will then set up a little test panel so that we can run the engine to see if there are any oil leaks or other problems. I would like to fix faults before the body goes on and the removal of things become more difficult.

    Regards
    Frans
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Matra Jet 6 restoration.-matra1.jpg   Matra Jet 6 restoration.-matra2.jpg  
    J-man and 59 Floride like this.
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    Some progress with the Matra amongst other things.

    We have loaded the Matra onto a car trailer. The little wheels that the body ids on at the moment works a treat. We got it on and off without any hassle or effort. It is standing at the fiber glass shop now and he has to close the roof where the sunroof is plus a few other odds and ends like closing the holes where the right hand drive mods were and a few strengthening points that were noticed as we went along.

    All the bearings for the gearbox have been bought and the assembly is all that is needed now. I am not changing the front bearing at the end where the pinion is, thankfully it is in a good condition as is some of the others. The bad ones are the easy ones to change. The casings have been bead blasted and I will cover it with clearcoat to keep it as neat and tidy as possible.

    Soon we will assemble the engine and gearbox and then it can be mounted in the chassis. I will then set up a little test panel so that we can run the engine to see if there are any oil leaks or other problems. I would like to fix faults before the body goes on and the removal of things become more difficult.

    Regards
    Frans
    So, am I to take it that the bearing inside 4th (which has its rollers bear directly on the pinion shaft) is ok & that the pinion shaft hasn't suffered from that bearing's rollers? If you did change it, then I'd love to know your source for it.
    cheers! Peter

  5. #80
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Hi Peter,
    It was a worry for me because at the time of your email I haven't stripped it that far but then when I got there it was in a perfect condition. I took the needles out and inspected them and none had pit marks. Both the surfaces, inner and outer on the shaft are in as new condition. I could then see your problem. Is your inner and outer bad?
    I am not a specialist in friction and materials but I am thinking that if you could turn a phosphor bronze bush in place of the roller needles, and that runs in a constant oil lubricated environment, wouldn't it last longer and cause less damage than a needle bearing woul when it breaks in little pieces?
    Regards
    Frans.
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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    Hi Peter,
    It was a worry for me because at the time of your email I haven't stripped it that far but then when I got there it was in a perfect condition. I took the needles out and inspected them and none had pit marks. Both the surfaces, inner and outer on the shaft are in as new condition. I could then see your problem. Is your inner and outer bad?
    I am not a specialist in friction and materials but I am thinking that if you could turn a phosphor bronze bush in place of the roller needles, and that runs in a constant oil lubricated environment, wouldn't it last longer and cause less damage than a needle bearing woul when it breaks in little pieces?
    Regards
    Frans.
    dunno about the bronze bush (I'll float the idea on the club's email stream). My problem is a damaged pinion shaft. I've subscribed to Club Djets' commissioned manufacture of an 8x33 crown-wheel & pinion (& shaft) but the bearing inside 4th apparently has an unusual roller size & no source is currently known for them. The club has sourced me a second-hand 329 boite so the hope is that it'll all add up to one good transaxle. You are fortunate.
    cheers! Peter

  7. #82
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    Would it be possible to have the shaft ground down a little to eliminate damage and accommodate a larger roller of a common size ,you would have to make sure you didnt go beyond the hard face or reduce the shaft size too much ,dont think there would be too much side thrust on that bearing .just centralizing the shaft ,although i wouldnt be surprised if the inner and outer are traveling in opposite directions keeping those little rollers busy ,pugs

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugwash View Post
    Would it be possible to have the shaft ground down a little to eliminate damage and accommodate a larger roller of a common size ,you would have to make sure you didnt go beyond the hard face or reduce the shaft size too much ,dont think there would be too much side thrust on that bearing .just centralizing the shaft ,although i wouldnt be surprised if the inner and outer are traveling in opposite directions keeping those little rollers busy ,pugs
    Fascinating stuff.

    I'm out of my depth here I know, but I wonder whether the better approach would be to rework the outer bearing housing, so as to avoid messing with a pretty rare and complex shaft. No doubt the real Jet folk have thought of this and thought beyond it...

    I've taken the liberty of including a photo of Frans' gearbox components for those who have never seen a Renault Estafette transaxle with the driveshaft running through the centre of the pinion. Very ingenious.

    Cheers
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Matra Jet 6 restoration.-estafette-jet-gearbox-components.jpg  
    JohnW

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  9. #84
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    thanks heaps for posting the pic ,so the input shaft drives the gear on the right of the main shaft then across to the cluster ,back to the outer of the main shaft to the pinion ,so the drive shaft and the pinion are traveling in the same direction at different rates depending which gear you are in ,i notices that where the rollers run it a larger diameter than the rest of the shaft maybe theres some room for larger rollers depending on the damage to the shaft ,sorry to hijack the thread, PUGS

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugwash View Post
    thanks heaps for posting the pic ,so the input shaft drives the gear on the right of the main shaft then across to the cluster ,back to the outer of the main shaft to the pinion ,so the drive shaft and the pinion are traveling in the same direction at different rates depending which gear you are in ,i notices that where the rollers run it a larger diameter than the rest of the shaft maybe theres some room for larger rollers depending on the damage to the shaft ,sorry to hijack the thread, PUGS
    One worry is that, with the pinion shaft being hollow, there's really not much metal to accommodate grinding.
    cheers! Peter
    p.s.: A.F. has a long & glorious history of thread hijacking &, in my view, most such exercises are interesting & not to be apologised for.

  11. #86
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    Hi All,

    A bit more was done in between everything. The condition of the gearbox looked good, visually at least so I carried on replacing all the bearings bar 1, the big one at the pinion. The only repair I had done was to build up and reface the area on the spigot shaft where the needle bearings run on. The spigot is supported not only by the bush in the crankshaft, but also by this needle bearing that sits at the oil seal as the spigot protrudes from the gearbox internals. All the seals were replaced as well.





    Then it was taken over to the Matra and mated with the engine...a good looking couple.



    I had an issue with the cross member. It is a modified R8/R10 one that is shortened about 20 mm from the center to the one side and about 100mm on the other side. With some emails sent around it was confirmed that it was correct. I still wanted to make a new one because the one that came with the car did not pass the standards. Ross had a spare for me and while visiting him we made a new one. Show me a better lounge to spend your time in than a workshop. A discussion followed between us and we realised that if that much is taken away on the one side, then the height of the mounting holes will be hugely affected. So we extended that end to make the engine sit level. WRONG! When it was installed, the height was wrong because I could fit the carbies. The engine had to sit slightly scew so the carbies can fit over the chassis. Not only is it mounted scew, it is out of alignment as well. A picture developed in my mind and I then realised that as the models developed and the engines became the crossflow G motors they had to adapt to accommodate the different models and that was the way it was done in a shop where everything was made by hands.





    That was the process we went through to get the motor in and then we couldn't wait to get it started. Last week was the target date and I reconditioned the starter half halfheartedly because it was in a very sad shape. The brushes was seized in the holders, the commutator was bad, the solenoid doesn't release etc. I got it "working" and took it over with the gearbox so that the start process could begin immediately after fitting the motor combination. Plan was working so far, oil poured in the engine and gearbox, plugs removed and cranking the engine until we got oil pressure, no problem! But oh my when I put the plugs back and tried to swing the motor, smoke was escaping from the starter. We left it at that and I came home and replaced the wire running from the solenoid to the fields (that was the issue). At the same time I overhauled my spare and took it with yesterday. We then battled with Supercheap jumper cables and after buying a decent battery cable that can be used again, and double up with the jumpers the motor started swinging at a fair speed. Enough to start the starting attempt.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHHyBeFVVPM

    That was good enough and easy enough. We fitted the silencer and after that it was easy! Only short runs though because there is no water but it was a start end good end to the weekend.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In9R1X4STJw

    I'm feeling happy but realise there is still a lot to do.

    Regards

    Frans.
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  12. #87
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Frans
    Will those rear springs straighten up with the weight of the body?
    They look to be bent at a strange angle?
    KB


  13. #88
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    Kevin,
    I hope so. I have never seen a Matra fully assembled to have a look at the coils but I can imagine with the added weight of the body the wishbones will lie more level than now and that forms the base of the coil that will straighten them out. On the other hand, the body is so light that me and my son can pick it up fairly easy (for him but not so easy for me anymore) and walk around in the garage with it.

    On another note.........see what I picked up from the Transporters today!!





    That is brand new from England.

    Regards
    Frans.
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  14. #89
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    Well done!
    It's another lovely day! Again!

  15. #90
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    Wow.

    Now that is a box you'd enjoy seeing undented on arrival...

    Not a Scenic behind the box is it Frans?
    JohnW

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  16. #91
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    Frans - is it the same as an R8 Front screen or something unique?

    John - lines look too angular to be a Scenic. Maybe a Pug or japanese/ford focus type car methinks.
    KB


  17. #92
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    No it is completely different. Rumours went around that it was the same as an early 60s Alfa Romeo Guilietta SS (Super Specialle) screen, but apparently that is too short. It is a screen on its own.

    To solve the riddle, it is a Hyundai i30.



    Frans
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    Coming along nicely Frans. I hope I can see it in the flesh some day. They are really pretty cars - the guy in The Netherlands who used to service my A310 had quite a few pass through (along with quite a few other interesting low volume cars).

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    No it is completely different. Rumours went around that it was the same as an early 60s Alfa Romeo Guilietta SS (Super Specialle) screen, but apparently that is too short. It is a screen on its own.

    <snip>

    Frans
    Interesting. I had thought that rumour to be true.

    What was the cost of the screen (part & then shipping) & who was the vendor?

    cheers! Peter

  20. #95
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Exocet, I have seen and heard of this guy that you mentioned in an earlier thread. There are a few Dutch guys on the www that talks and writes about their Djets. Then there is the other European countries as well Germany and obviously France. The NZ Matra was originally sold new in Germany thats why I have an extra chassis plate.

    4cvg, The Alfa windscreen is not the one for the Matra. Luckily I found that before ordering. The guy I spoke to in the UK told me about that same rumour that backfired and he proved it with a picture.



    The Alfa screen is a bout30mm too short. He assured me that all Matra Djet 5 & 6 s are the same. He had this made as a special one off order.
    Cost is 345.00 pounds and shipping 350.00 pounds. Additional to that will be your own Customs and Taxes etc. The vendor is Uroglas and the contact there is Stuart Robertson.

    Regards. Frans
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    Exocet, I have seen and heard of this guy that you mentioned in an earlier thread. There are a few Dutch guys on the www that talks and writes about their Djets. Then there is the other European countries as well Germany and obviously France. The NZ Matra was originally sold new in Germany thats why I have an extra chassis plate.

    4cvg, The Alfa windscreen is not the one for the Matra. Luckily I found that before ordering. The guy I spoke to in the UK told me about that same rumour that backfired and he proved it with a picture.



    The Alfa screen is a bout30mm too short. He assured me that all Matra Djet 5 & 6 s are the same. He had this made as a special one off order.
    Cost is 345.00 pounds and shipping 350.00 pounds. Additional to that will be your own Customs and Taxes etc. The vendor is Uroglas and the contact there is Stuart Robertson.

    Regards. Frans
    thanks for that
    peter

  22. #97
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    What was the original colour, silver, yellow or something different?
    John
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  23. #98
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    Frans,

    Feux DE Recul PK Voitures Anciennes | eBay is a link to ebay France where some R10 export front indicator lamps are for sale, new, and noted as suitable for Matra Jet. I'm not sure they are actually correct, but have a look in case.

    Cheers

    John
    JohnW

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  24. #99
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    The original coulor was red.

    Thanks John but that is not a Matra Jet item. The Matra had an unique indicator system. The fog lights had double filaments and that was used for front indicators.
    Frans

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    The original coulor was red.

    Thanks John but that is not a Matra Jet item. The Matra had an unique indicator system. The fog lights had double filaments and that was used for front indicators.
    Frans
    I suspected as much Frans. It is amazing what turns up on ebay. July is still looking good.

    Cheers

    John
    JohnW

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    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
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    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

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