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Thread: 504 rebirth

  1. #101
    Fellow Frogger! leftcoast's Avatar
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    yeah opted to go complete fuel injected, still plan to carby another engine later on when I put a manual box in it.

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    504 rebirth-photo.jpg
    what im having issue with is where to mount the crank trigger wheel sensor and where to position the missing tooth in relation to TDC.
    at the moment I have started to fab a bracket to position the sensor at the 90deg "3 o'clock" location from TDC (looking from front of car) and position the missing tooth at TDC, hahah see just confused myself again - only cuz ive seen it done many ways, any help appreciated in this last step before programing starts

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftcoast View Post
    yeah opted to go complete fuel injected, still plan to carby another engine later on when I put a manual box in it.



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    what im having issue with is where to mount the crank trigger wheel sensor and where to position the missing tooth in relation to TDC.
    at the moment I have started to fab a bracket to position the sensor at the 90deg "3 o'clock" location from TDC (looking from front of car) and position the missing tooth at TDC, hahah see just confused myself again - only cuz ive seen it done many ways, any help appreciated in this last step before programing starts

    What ECU are you planning on using? On most of them, you can set the offset of the missing tooth in the software, so it doesn't really matter where it is physically.
    Scotty

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  3. #103
    Fellow Frogger! leftcoast's Avatar
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    I'm Using a link G3, it does have the features to adjust all that so like you said should be ok,
    Only thing I don't like about this model link ECU is it only offers group/ batch injection,ie 2 injector drives, I've busted my back setting up the direct spark only to have grouped injection, haha not a huge disaster but I'm sure it will eat at me in a few years.

    We'll getting closer to take to tuners, is $750 about the av cost for a new tune?

  4. #104
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    Not sure of the cost, but you could probably do it yourself - or atleast get a base tune so you can drive it. You'll require a wideband O2 for this. Innovate make an inexpensive LC2 or MTX which can be got for around $200. Here is my ignition curve which you may be able to use easily enough. It's based on the Ducellier M45 curve (I think). Just ignore Kpa over 100, as that's boosted range.

    504 rebirth-ignition.jpg
    Peugeot 504 Intercooled T04 Turbo, Four Mikuni R1 carburettors, external waste gate, Microsquirt ignition, 5 speed.

  5. #105
    Fellow Frogger! callipygous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftcoast View Post
    I'm Using a link G3, it does have the features to adjust all that so like you said should be ok,
    Only thing I don't like about this model link ECU is it only offers group/ batch injection,ie 2 injector drives, I've busted my back setting up the direct spark only to have grouped injection, haha not a huge disaster but I'm sure it will eat at me in a few years.

    We'll getting closer to take to tuners, is $750 about the av cost for a new tune?

    What's the status on this? It's been a while since you've posted... Did you get it tuned ok?
    Peugeot 504 Intercooled T04 Turbo, Four Mikuni R1 carburettors, external waste gate, Microsquirt ignition, 5 speed.

  6. #106
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    Been busy with work so this has taken a back seat for a while,

    everything is done and At cranking stage but can't seem to to get it to fire, mind you I'm not to Savy with the ECU programming, and think I'm having triggering/spark issues, I pretty sure I have mounted the trigger wheel wrong, but still should be able to get it firing
    504 rebirth-image.jpg
    This is how I have it now, and fairly sure I cant have the missing tooth on TDC, so my trig offset and ecu values are all mixed up,
    any tips?

  7. #107
    Fellow Frogger! leftcoast's Avatar
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    Default Haha

    Yeah thought so haha it's ok the staff at LINK can't really help either, will now be taking it to the tuners To let them deal with it haha.. if they can't get it running I'm stuffed! Depending on the outcome I'm ripping it all out and going 4branch manifold and carby..... Bahaha
    I'm so indecisive I think it's a mental disease

  8. #108
    Fellow Frogger! callipygous's Avatar
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    I'm sure you can play with the offset value... It shouldn't be too hard to get right, if your ECU is up to it. Read up on the forums for your ECU would be my approach.
    Peugeot 504 Intercooled T04 Turbo, Four Mikuni R1 carburettors, external waste gate, Microsquirt ignition, 5 speed.

  9. #109
    Fellow Frogger! leftcoast's Avatar
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    Yeah I'll just keep tinkering till it fires, no rush to get it done. Problem is LINK don't have a huge forum support and there past forums are not accessible anymore due to their server fault, I'm sure it will be ok - keep on keeping on

  10. #110
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    right, i failed on the EFI conversion, i had had enough and the ECU manufacture had my head banging against the wall, lets not talk about it.....
    so i put it all back to original injection, so all is done apart from getting some body to help me tune her up as it idles nice but when go to drive she boggs down straight away and does not rev at all, so if any body in perth would like to help me please feel free if you know what your doing,

    anyway here are some pics, its covered in dust, but managed to get her out on the front while testing the thermo fan, i hope you like.


    504 rebirth-dsc_0040.jpg504 rebirth-dsc_0037.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 504 rebirth-dsc_0037.jpg   504 rebirth-dsc_0042.jpg  
    Last edited by leftcoast; 11th January 2015 at 01:57 AM.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftcoast View Post
    right, i failed on the EFI conversion, i had had enough and the ECU manufacture had my head banging against the wall, lets not talk about it.....
    so i put it all back to original injection, so all is done apart from getting some body to help me tune her up as it idles nice but when go to drive she boggs down straight away and does not rev at all, so if any body in perth would like to help me please feel free if you know what your doing,

    anyway here are some pics, its covered in dust, but managed to get her out on the front while testing the thermo fan, i hope you like.


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    Looking really nice!

    I think you've already contacted the person with the most experience with the TI in WA.

    As I see it, these are the steps for making the injection run well:
    -Vacuum hoses: be sure about these.
    -Check diaphragm in the altitude corrector
    -Check diaphragm in the brake booster
    -Fuel supply (you've been sorting this out recently I believe!)

    Fiddling with the mixture has historically been bad without correct experience. If the above doesn't work, it might be best to get a pump rebuild (there's a mob in Germany that offer this service).

  12. #112
    Fellow Frogger! leftcoast's Avatar
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    Cheers dude,

    yeah I'm thinking its its best if he looks at it to do the fine tuning, although im using the innovate air fuel ratio gauge and it was floating between 10.8 and 15, I'm getting it closer and closer slowly adjusting the pump, I've got it to 11.5 to 15.5as explained in the pump manual that was sent to me, I just don't have the specific gauges needed,
    ive gotten some of the bogging down gone but there still a small amount there as if I feather the throttle it will smoothly pick up speed ok but any sort of oomph foot from stand still and there is a small amount of bog,

    checked all vacumes except the brake booster- but new to me to cause vacume issues inside the booster. I'm thinking the different air filter has changed the vacume levels a bit.

    so will be popping over to trevs later this month, I'll let ha know when I'm planning to go down,
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  13. #113
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    'grapes,
    Ti's aren't my bag so I'll toss this one in regardless.
    The condition of the distributor ie the mechanicals and the vac advance diaphragm.
    With a timing light connected does it show any advance when the throttle is opened?
    If not try advancing the timing more than the spec setting at idle. Increase adjustment to something like 20 or even 30 deg.
    Obviously it can't be left at this but it may point to a timing fault.
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  14. #114
    Fellow Frogger! FedGrapes's Avatar
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    I'll be in town for the Australia day weekend, but not any other time. I'm over in Queensland doing some work experience!

    Beesty; I still don't know all the ways to suck eggs, so I'm never going to shun input!

  15. #115
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    504 rebirth-dsc02972-copy.jpg My 4 cents worth J

    Refer to attached pic,

    Try/check

    1.Check (again) all hoses “A” are correctly connected/positioned.
    2.Check that the carbon brush in the dizzy cap “B” is free to slide and make contact with the button.
    3.Remove hose “E” either end or remove the cover “D” and road test.
    4.Remove cover “C” (NOTE: photograph, mark and measure accurately all positions/locations of nuts threads etc under the cover and record).
    Then a) very carefully adjust the vertically mounted thread that alters the spring tension 1 turn clockwise (DO NOT LET THE SPRING ROTATE), nip up locknut replace cover and road test. Be careful with the “O” ring under the cap.
    If performance worse:-
    Then b) very carefully adjust the spring 2 turns anti-clockwise,(DO NOT LET THE SPRING ROTATE), nip up locknut replace cover and road test.

    IF NO BETTER RETURN TO ORIGINAL SETTINGS (SB one turn clockwise) AND LOOK ELSE WHERE!

    It’s a pity Perth is 4000kms away.

    Good luck


    PS Step 4 should keep you entertained for a few hours,my money is on 3. This is a very sensitive gizmo and should not see any vacuum (try partially pinching off the inlet hose at idle, (Unless someone has frigged around under cap “C” previously).
    Last edited by BIGRR; 16th January 2015 at 04:31 PM.
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  16. #116
    Fellow Frogger! leftcoast's Avatar
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    Thanks for the support all,
    I'm running a 123 distributor and I have not touched that and the timing marker that bolt to the front of crank case cover has elongated holes so not sure where to mount it to get TDC on 0 or whatever, so gotta do it by ear

    I rechecked hoses again, and wound out the bottom enriched a little more and tickled the big screw on top as in step 4 only one tun in so it wasn't so rich, took her for a spin, and pretty much spot on, just a little more lean - like half a turn and I think I'll have it, took it for a good 2 hr drive and didn't miss a beat, lowest it ran was 11.7 but all other time cruising it was loving 13.5 -15,
    will see how she goes tomorrow in the heat

    now I have to finish all the other repairs to keep it on the road haha
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  17. #117
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    thats a damn fine looking 504, good stuff!

  18. #118
    Fellow Frogger! leftcoast's Avatar
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    Cheers, but after 250km it started running lean like 19/20, shiiiiieeet. It died on the side of road, found it to be the brand new rear fuel filter- brown muddy like substance, must of stirred some sludge up with the new pump, put a new one in and back to normal..... I bought 5 of the same Ryco filters so I can fix again if it happens haha, I may need to drain and flush the tank again, oh how fun that was last time, will have some more photos soon, but I'm starting to not like the panel work and paint, dodgy as, spouse I was going for that rat look, anybody know how to speed up the patina paint look, I'm thinking a very tiny bit of brake fluid and sandpaper,

  19. #119
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    Interesting to hear that EFI was so much hassle, and that you ended up going back to injection! R1 carbs could have been interesting... So did you end up getting it running ok?
    Current: 205 GTI Mi16
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  20. #120
    Fellow Frogger! leftcoast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pee Dubs View Post
    Interesting to hear that EFI was so much hassle, and that you ended up going back to injection! R1 carbs could have been interesting... So did you end up getting it running ok?
    It was a hassle but i some times make things harder than what they really are, haha such as this situation, millions of people have done this.

    was running really well as stock but had unknown issues and had to be towed home.
    gave the efi a go again and almost done.
    504 rebirth-image.jpgOld girl just sitting there
    504 rebirth-image.jpgEngine as it is now
    504 rebirth-image.jpgMade up a simple TPS bracket, using a mikini R1 tps
    504 rebirth-image.jpgTook me a while but made up a fuel rail using ford telster injectors, EFI rail ordered online, ls1 igniters, wiring still exposed until she actually running.

    issue now is the programming the software to suit the crank trigger wheel to get spark, fuel and all that - but just tested my crank sensor which is a Honeywell gt101 is dead so waiting for another in the post.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 504 rebirth-image.jpg  
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  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftcoast View Post
    Been busy with work so this has taken a back seat for a while,

    everything is done and At cranking stage but can't seem to to get it to fire, mind you I'm not to Savy with the ECU programming, and think I'm having triggering/spark issues, I pretty sure I have mounted the trigger wheel wrong, but still should be able to get it firing
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is how I have it now, and fairly sure I cant have the missing tooth on TDC, so my trig offset and ecu values are all mixed up,
    any tips?
    Hello, I know I am very late to the party here, but I have been doing a lot of research on converted my 505 ZDJL to modern fuel injection. This involves fabricating a crank trigger like you seem to have done (although it sounds like you ditched it!) Anyways, I thought I'd offer my 2 cents on this. It looks like your sensor is on the wrong side of TDC. According to the Megasquirt manual, you should be 9 teeth BEFORE TDC on a 4 cylinder engine. Apparently the tach reading is most stable between 90 and 120 degrees BTDC on a missing tooth wheel for a 4 cylinder engine because of the inherent rotational motion of an IC engine. Without a good tach reading, any ECU is garbage!

    I know this may be way too late, but I thought I'd offer that up anyway. It sounds like wideband O2 is helping you get her pretty finely tuned anyways.
    Here are some pictures from the Megasquirt hardware manual
    504 rebirth-retrofit.jpg504 rebirth-wheel_diag.jpg
    Sorry if it's too little too late!
    Best,
    Wade

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