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  1. #1
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    Default ali's 74 DS

    hi everyone, as posted somewhere else here I became the very proud owner of a 1974 DS 23 Pallas at the end of July. I've loved the look of the DS for a really long time, but never really thought of owning one until recently.

    as far as the previous owner could tell me, the owner before him was a serial modifier (I believe a few of you saw the ebay pix, and went to have a look also) - the electrics were tweaked beyond belief, the headlining material (weird black felt) looks like it's been hot glued on, and the entire car has been painted (by hand, with a paint brush) a colour like toothpaste, straight over the duco. among other things.

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    the car should be vert argente, which you can see peeking through the mint in a few spots.

    a couple of overall pics....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ali's 74 DS-img_3036.jpg   ali's 74 DS-img_3037.jpg   ali's 74 DS-img_3038.jpg  

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    as you can see, an engine isolation switch has been oddly added to the dash. why, i have no idea. not a great location for such things, as i discovered when my dad's knee knocked the switch at the corner of flinders street & st kilda road and killed my engine.

    the electrics were among the first things i wanted to sort out. i'll find the photos to post, but there were just so many odd things that had been done that it was hard trying to work out what to do first. we still haven't worked out what the extension cord plugs do (yes, there are at least two separate pairs of plugs in the engine bay. no idea at all).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ali's 74 DS-img_3039.jpg   ali's 74 DS-img_3041.jpg  

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    Default first things first

    so the first thing we tried to sort out was the fact that the car wouldn't maintain a charge. the longer the drive (and we're talking minutes) the charge would drop. driving using indicators caused issues. having lights on, and using indicators guaranteed it would die.

    so we replaced the alternator with a nifty bosch one from repco. the contact point in the distributor actually broke off, so that's been replaced with a new one from ebay (with nice bakelite cover). i'll have to post some photos of the engine bay with the random wiring etc... the closer we looked, the more wires that weren't actually connected to anything, or had been cut & a new wire patched on very dodgily.

    in order to try and sort out at the very least where the cables that had been sabotaged went to, we ended up taking off the dash completely. this has make life somewhat easier... and helped to establish what was going on with the isolation switch. we found a separate second switch buried in the depths of the dashboard, which overrode the other switch. both are now removed.

    (sorry for all the text, have to find the photos to upload)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ali's 74 DS-img_3032.jpg   ali's 74 DS-img_3033.jpg  

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    Ali, you really have got yourself a bucket full of challenges there.

    I think taking and posting LOTS of photos may help the AF community head you in the right direction. This could be fun.

    Interesting you say it's a 1974 DS yet it's a hydraulic gearchange. I thought that the laws brought in around 1971 stopped the sale of hydrauliques in Australia as it does not have a method of the gearbox also being a park brake. Perhaps this car was a private import?
    Craig K
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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Big project Ali

    Undoing the sad work that has already happened and getting back to square one is a good start.

    Do you have a plan, i.e keep it as a rolling resto or strip it right down and see it off the road for a while?

    Look forward to your progress, I wish you were closer I'd be pitching in...

    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

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    removing the dash also highlighted the fact that the previous owner had installed a second ignition to the right of the steering wheel. the cables to the original to the left were literally cut, and the new system wired in). the old key was broken off in the ignition, disabling it further.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ali's 74 DS-img_3046.jpg  

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    hehe craig... i know, i know! the whole idea was to buy something that needed work, and so far this has been a challenge. if nothing else, it's been a teaching ground for me in terms of cars (not knowing a whole lot) & citroens (knowing nothing at all).

    i have tried to take photos of every step so far, i just haven't had a chance to get them all together & sequential. now that we have daylight savings, it's a bit easier having a few more useful hours of the day.

    i really have no history for the car at all, so it could well be an import. i believe from the guy we bought the car from that it was the previous owner who did all the mods (his wife passed away, so it became his hobby) - there are a lot of custom made aluminium plates that he's made for the car etc etc. strangeness abounds. from what my boyfriend tells me the engine is a 2.1 not a 2.3l, so he may have done even weirder things to the car beyond what we've identified so far.

    thanks chris, the plan was to sort out the things i've touched on so far that were causing issues with it being drivable (losing charge, ignition) and sort out things that need doing to get a roadworthy (tyres, leaking rear left brakes, headlights, the steering wheel, rear bump stops, holes in the exhaust). so far i've bought 2 new tyres, we polished the headlight covers over the weekend (most likely home made perspex lenses, came up well), have a cover coming for the steering wheel, we tried to put a new stop in, and i've resigned myself to buying a new exhaust system for the car. looking at it, it also looks homemade, and rough. the rear muffler is way to low & too close to the back of the car (bumps on speed humps).

    so we've managed to tick a few things off the important list. other than that, the plan once it's roadworthy is to just systematically work through the other bits & pieces that need doing. i've got a few parts coming from citroworld, and new headlining arrived today. i'd love to get it resprayed & redo the interior (front seats are bearable, back is very degraded, and the arm rests on the doors are near falling off the foam is so perished) but i'm forcing myself to prioritise. i can't wait for the day when she's a shiny vert argente again....

  8. #8
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Gee's I'm glad it's not injected as well... What a mess of wires. I reckon my starting point would be cutting away every wire that doesn't look like it belongs ..... What are all the gauges?

    Is it an automatic or BVH

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Ali, if you need help, PM me. We should be able to get through the mess. The basic system really isn't that complicated.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ali_w View Post
    i've resigned myself to buying a new exhaust system for the car.
    My car does not have a rear silencer. - Main silencer under the front seats, then two straight pipes to the rear.

    Main silencer not too costly GB$88. http://shop.citroenclassics.co.uk/ex...ystem-30-c.asp

    Unsure what cars are meant to have a rear silencer ?

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    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ali_w View Post
    i've resigned myself to buying a new exhaust system for the car. looking at it, it also looks homemade, and rough. the rear muffler is way to low & too close to the back of the car (bumps on speed humps).
    As far as I know Australian delivered D's do not have the rear muffler, just a pair of small diameter pipes running aft from the center muffler and exiting pretty much under the left rear tail light. Much less chance of damage.

    I believe it was the left hand drive versions which had the rear muffler which exited on the left rear corner of the car, probably not a great idea on right hand drive cars as it would be on the kerb side.
    Michael
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    EFI cars had the extra small, flat muffler under the rear floor, twin pipes exiting straight back.

    Richard

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    thanks for all the comments re the exhaust - i still think the previous owner (who did all the other mods) literally welded the thing together himself as a DIY jobbie... it's so full of holes, I'll try and put a photo up here soon.

    citrenut i don't think my car is EFI... but there are a lot of WEIRD things going with this car, so nothing is surprising anymore.

    added to the pile of pieces coming across from citroworld with a few more bits & bobs last night (door bottom seals, parcel shelf, nylon washers for the rear panel bolts etc). haven't been able to do anything at all on the car due to moving house & work going crazytime in the leadup to christmas.

    hopefully if the weather is good (and i don't have to work) I'll get something done, and take some more photos. good news is her new home has off-street parking & is undercover to a certain extent, so am looking forward to getting stuck in.

    to move her we got a few things hooked up but still having problems with the entire rear left side lights not working... very strange, and needs to be looked at (along with the rest of the wiring left to do).

    going to the citroen concours definitely inspired me (and made me look forward to being able to bring my little green machine along).

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    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    If it is just the left light not working then the problem will be behind the back bumper and panel. The wiring is shares until then. Probably an earth... they are prone to failure
    Michael
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    so we managed to do a bit on the car last weekend, got both front indicators sorted (loose connection), put new heating ducts back in, and clipped out a few more redundant wires.

    currently the collection of redundant wires completely fills a plastic shopping bag. and that's not even getting to the domestic lead plugs that are still mysteriously in the engine bay.

    a couple of questions in the interim, while i am waiting for it to stop raining so i can finish wire brushing the rear number plate fascia before repainting:

    - does anyone know what colour (if there is a standard colour) the inside of the headlight buckets should be? mine are a gloss beige colour, which looking at photos of other cars, looks a little too skin-tone to be right.

    - can anyone help me with pallas trims - currently she only has the top trim at the bottom of the windows. is it difficult to put these on as a retrofit? main priority is getting the painting sorted, so buying the two remaining sets of trims may have to wait a while

    - can anyone give me tips (or photos, or a pointer to a thread if there is one) about reupholstering the headlining... i've bought one from citroworld, but don't really have any idea of how to get it in. it may need to wait until i've got her repainted, but still it'd be nice to know.

    plan of attack for next step:
    - sort out wiring in boot (previous owner put in a power socket for a trailer, and did the usual hatchet job with wires & relays everywhere). dash to go back in, new rearview mirror on, then put new exhaust in when it arrives.

    i've taken heaps of photos as i've gone along, will hopefully get a sec around christmas to put them up. all comments so far have been very helpful & supportive

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    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    Great you are making progress. Posting pics asap would be a good idea as the sooner you get some more input the better. Some of the weird things you are chopping out may be genuine Citroen, after all it is French

    Did you buy the Pallas head lining? It should be about 20mm thick with a thick foam backing. I made my own by laminating some standard thin head lining to a piece of good quality foam using spray adhesive. I then found it very easy to fit the quite stiff lining to the roof by using a little spray adhesive at a time starting from the back edge and working forward in strips. You need a high tack adhesive and a little patience... and a mask and fan!

    The lining does not need to be absolutely accurate in a Pallas as the big padded edge roll covers the first 40mm of the perimeter.

    If you have the thinner foam backed material I suspect it will be considerably harder with it being much more flexible.
    Michael
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    Default ali's 74 DS (part II)

    happy 2012 everyone.
    not sure what happened to my thread, if it got deleted or lost with the server relocation?

    anyway.
    slow progress with the exhaust being made, but have come up against a stumbling block with the mounting of the new (citroworld) exhaust system. i've taken lots of pix of the old system (very DIY) but will post separately.

    the previous owner has modified the mounting plates to the central (main) exhaust part to suit his own system, by cutting a section out & welding some hooks etc from which to hang his system.

    does anyone happen to know if there is a DS being wrecked which might have original mounting plates, or has anyone had to replace their own? we can probably sort something out, but just trying to see what options are available.

    the attached diagram hopefully makes it clearer (apologies if the terminology is not right, i am still learning the ways of automobile restoration)

    the specific part is no. 10, however we are also missing parts 16, 13, 15, 8, 14.

    thanks,
    ali

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    diagram this time...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ali's 74 DS-611-6-182-1.jpg  

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    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    Hi Ali

    Good to see you are progressing.

    I think I may have those parts "somewhere" in my garage... I will have a search.

    Your original thread still exists!

    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/sho...72#post1011372
    Michael
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    Michael, that would be fantastic if it's not too much trouble... we keep finding things that have been modified or just plain replaced, and it's sometimes difficult to see why!

    some pix of the old exhaust for interest:

    lots of welding, lots of holes, lots of rust.ali's 74 DS-imag0185-copy.jpg

    ali's 74 DS-imag0187-copy.jpg

    ali's 74 DS-imag0188-copy.jpg

    ali's 74 DS-imag0238-copy.jpg

    ali's 74 DS-imag0239-copy.jpg

  21. #21
    UFO
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    You didn't buy a car - you bought Frankenstein!

    Perhaps a friendly moderator with sufficient privileges (hint hint) could merge the two threads?
    Craig K
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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    You didn't buy a car - you bought Frankenstein!

    Perhaps a friendly moderator with sufficient privileges (hint hint) could merge the two threads?
    Amazing the trouble some will go to, you'd have to ask why when there is no shortage in supply of D mufflers - crazy

    *Merged by friendly Admin with super powers...

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  23. #23
    UFO
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post

    *Merged by friendly Admin with super powers...

    Cheers
    Chris
    You left out "amazing"
    Craig K
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    hehe thank you! (and thanks admin )

    i'll try to put up more photos - it's been a very interesting journey so far, and will continue for a while... everytime i look in the engine bay, the sight of the domestic power leads just rankles beyond belief...

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    here's what i mean - they appear to head towards the back of the car (at least the one in these photos, which is on the front right hand side), but no idea as yet what the hell they are doing.

    scary scary stuff

    ali's 74 DS-imag0167.jpg

    ali's 74 DS-imag0168.jpg

    ali's 74 DS-imag0169.jpg

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