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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default R8 upgrade project

    Thought i share my R8 rebuild and customisation project with the others on this site - this just helps me stay sane because all my other friends think i've lost my marbles playing around with this "weird old car".

    Even my son (who is 10) cant get over the fact that the speedo only goes to 120 and that you have to turn this "lever thing" on the door to make the window go down. And to tell the truth i dont know how to respond to him when im working on the car and he walks past and says "How's your gaybo renault going dad?".

    Before i put this up i know some people are going to cringe when they see what i am doing to this vehicle (such as cutting up an original 1135 steering etc) but to me driving around a stock standard R8 (even an 1135) doesnt do it for me at all as i have been there and done that when i was 20 (i had about 6 R8's and 3 R10's a 16TS and 17 that i chopped into a convertible etc etc - the 8's ranging from 1132's to a 34 and a 35 and they were always my favourite).

    First part is the purchased car which arrived in May 2011.

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  2. #2
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    Default The polish, debumpering and stickering project

    First was to change the way the car looks a bit before getting into the mechanicals and any rust.

    Once again i know its not the correct striping look but that is not what i wanted.

    Removed the door handle chrome plate surrounds (dont like those), added period bullet mirrors to the doors and a period aerial, debumpered the car (dont like the look with bumpers but will use the overriders), cut the paint back and then polished the vehicle (it came up quite good) and then applied a swag of period racing stickers all over (im helping prevent classic car nudity).
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  3. #3
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    Default The front semi period looking spot lights project.

    Retaining the overriders to help mount the spot lights gives a little protection from touch / feel parkers at shopping centres etc.

    The spots came off ebay for $55 for a pair - the chrome grills suit the car in my opinion and the blue lenses complete the look.

    Not shown in these pics is a threaded rod tie bar i used inbetween the overriders to stop any shaking of the spots and also to provide a number plate mounting point.
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  4. #4
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    Default The steering wheel / positioning project.

    Ok yes i cut up an original R1135 sterring wheel - it was worn down at the top and was like a wafer of rubber around the rim.

    On this particular wheel the actual hub nut had become loose in the hub outer so i mig'd that up all the way around.

    The momo suede deep dish wheel i wanted to use would have been too far out using a traditional aftermarket hub so cutting the guts out of the gord wheel and then drilling a 6 x 70mm hole mounting system worked well.

    It was then finished off by using a steering hub outer rubber cover that i cut down from an old Alfetta steering wheel i had lying around.

    The final touch was that with a slight compression of the original gordini steering wheel centre cap it fits nicely in the guts of a momo wheel (also sprayed the back white again to rejuvenate that lozenge).

    Next was to pad out the wheel mounting system to reposition it to where i wanted it. In its current guise the bottom of the 1135 dials is obscured by the switch cluster the steering wheel mounts on (shown in the pic) - apart from that i want to lower my seating position for many reasons and this will help - i may increase the drop slightly again but even this modest amount make a big difference.

    I actually used an old hacksaw backbone to make the spacer.

    Doing this drop also works well when you raise your steering rack to correct bump steer on lowered cars.

    While i was in there i rewired the iginition area and cleaned it up.
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  5. #5
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    Default The front and rear suspension project.

    Well, the car was as low as i used to run mine back in the late 80's / early 90's. It was on the bump stops at the front and the previous owner said he had put in lowered springs but they have sagged or something.

    On my old cars i used cut 3/4 inch off the top of the lower bump stops to give more travel on a lowered car - but the sagged springs comment judt didnt sound right - an R8 has no weight in the front - so how would it sag?

    So i pulled it aprt and found that he had put some Gabriel adjustable shocks in it and they were on their tightest setting so basically as soon as he drove the car and the suspension compressed it would never return. 3 clicks out and all was good again.

    But now he had cut the rears to match the front so i put in a spare set of standard rears (they do sag) and it seems about right.

    Also forgot to mention the rear shocks were stuffed (leaking fluid everywhere). If you are after a cheap compatible shock in length (open / closed) weigth dampening etc i used some standard front shocks off a leaf spring suzuki sierra. the bottom eye is just shy of the carriers width so just use the bolt and no side spacers.
    Last edited by brettr; 25th August 2011 at 12:21 PM. Reason: Adding a tip

  6. #6
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    Default The pedal bar project.

    20 years ago the pedal bars on the cars wre stuffed as people never greased them. It is always neglected and makes a big diff int he car you drive if you keep the bar in good nick.

    In this vehicle the hulk would have a work out pressing the accelerator or clutch - not just the pedal bar but dry cables as well etc.

    So pedal bar out and with a rebuild it will be very cool again.

    I will get onto the brakes as separate project - got in a R5 tandem master and had test fitted it but will cover off that project elsewhere.
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    Last edited by brettr; 12th September 2011 at 01:21 PM. Reason: another pic

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! R8 Dream's Avatar
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    Default Front air intake

    Hi where did you get the front air intake. I looks fibreglass?
    Did you make it up from a mould, it really looks cool!
    Are you running the same radiator setup as Frans & Ross?
    Angelo

  8. #8
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    Default The front boot and battery project.

    As this vehicle has a 1600 in it they opted for the easy route out. Just rip the tank and relocate to the boot to accomodate the alternator etc.

    The cars i did this conversion to in the 80's it is not a prob to relocate the water pump and alternator to the front of the motor - even better to run an electric water pump and save a few horses.

    In any event the BEST thing you can do for your R8 / R10 is to move the radiator and fuel tank to the front of the car. Forget bags on concrete etc in the boot - a waste of HP.

    Being distracted but as usual the front drain channel was rusted - not too bad really as back int he early 90's they were normally already worse than this one.

    A hole from inside the car to the boot etc - the fix - fibreglass. its about the only thing that will not rust on the car anymore. I already have enough structural items in the front and the channel wasnt that bad to warrant a heap of steel.

    While i was at it the boot had been cut open to allow for a huge fan to be fitted to the front alpine style radiator - dont want that now because i will be making a very low mount front tank to fill this well. So will just plate that up and use two small 7" trans fans.

    Also will cut out the battery box. I want the battery as low as possible and it just makes everything easier in future for keeping that area all good.

    An while in here i rewired everything, removed the gord air horns, added a bat isolator, ran a proper tank vent line and even put in some marine carpet.

    As i said above i will replace the current tank once on the road.

    Also added some aluminium brakcets to the front mouth to open it right up for some air channelling i will be running for the radiator and brake ducting.
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  9. #9
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    Default The painting of the mouth project.

    Just a quick one - as the front mouth is fibreglass it was a funny gel coat colour that looked bad.

    Gave it a paint, (came up good) and as a quick tip if you buy the colour Blaze Blue PowerPlus brand from SuperCheap it is fairly close, not close enough to spray an external panel but good for interior and other engine bay touch ups etc if you dont want to mix and use a spray gun etc.

    This is ofcourse when your car is painted in traditional Gordini French Racing Blue.
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  10. #10
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    Default The engine sticking into the cabin project.

    There is a proper way of doing things and the improper way - i like to find the inbetween mark but this is just plain rough.

    When fitting the 1600 they just cut a big chunk out of the rear parcel shelf and then cut the trim around that and thought thats ok.

    Personally i like the idea of a firewall.

    The engine mounts were both collapsed - i am expecting the main top gearbox mount to be not too much better and already the alternator is about 5 mm from the cut - so ive cut a bit more of a recess and then trimmed the cut in pinchweld to make it look finished.

    Then fabbed up a metal box to enclose the cut and make it look more factory'ish - this also allowed me to trim it in fire retardant insulation to cut engine noise.

    Also had to allow the the inspection oval to be removable for timing the motor (isnt it fun taking out the back seat to time a motor).I then setup the speaker board trim to sit up almost at window height which sort of elimates the rear parcel shelf but who uses it anyrate?

    The best part about setting up the speaker shelf board (its custom fab) is that it hides all that rear trim that the sun ate to nothing 25 years ago little alone now.
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  11. #11
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettr View Post
    Thought i share my R8 rebuild and customisation project with the others on this site - this just helps me stay sane because all my other friends think i've lost my marbles playing around with this "weird old car".

    Even my son (who is 10) cant get over the fact that the speedo only goes to 120 and that you have to turn this "lever thing" on the door to make the window go down. And to tell the truth i dont know how to respond to him when im working on the car and he walks past and says "How's your gaybo renault going dad?".

    Before i put this up i know some people are going to cringe when they see what i am doing to this vehicle (such as cutting up an original 1135 steering etc) but to me driving around a stock standard R8 (even an 1135) doesnt do it for me at all as i have been there and done that when i was 20 (i had about 6 R8's and 3 R10's a 16TS and 17 that i chopped into a convertible etc etc - the 8's ranging from 1132's to a 34 and a 35 and they were always my favourite).

    First part is the purchased car which arrived in May 2011.
    Don't worry about your son. One day he'll be begging to take the little R8 for a spin.

    I didn't quite understand form your explanation, is this a Gordini?
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  12. #12
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    Default The fibreglass mouth

    Hi Angelo,

    These fibreglass mouths were very popular in the heyday of the cars.

    I think the mould was a South African original item. A lot of the cars raced over there had these front mouths fitted for front mount radiators. The mouth bolts up to the original swing arms so you can have it swing down like the standard one (to service your radiator etc) if you want (mine is hard mounted).

    And i dont know who Frans or Ross are - it is an alpine style radiator - have a look at mecaparts - they have them on there.

    Its an easy setup really - personally it would cool just fine with 3 row twin core 150mm high and 400mm wide with two small 7" trans fans.

    The important part is to make the transfer tubing from front to rear done in metal not rubber. Mine is in stainless - aluminium would be great. And leave them exposed after routing through the body crossmembers - meaning dont put those covers back on - these tubes will radiate a ton of heat.

    When i had heaps of these cars we used to put in R16 / R17 motors worked to the max and cut the floor out and mount them forward of the rear axle (same direction as a 17) and run cheap steel exhaust tubing up to a front mount 3 row 6" radiator but with no fans. This setup was just for racing so there was no stop / start time. But it cooled fine because of the front mouth setup we used as it channelled air straight in and the tubes dissapated heat too.

    Lots of people try to run angled radiators in the front of 8's / 10's and i think the main reason for doing this is then you could buy a cheap radiator from a wrecker for a standard car and use it?

    Attached is a few more of the radiator (with old fan and new ones but gives you a bit of an idea what the radiator looks like) - it a super easy project to change to front mount.

    Hope this helps.

    BR
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    Last edited by brettr; 12th September 2011 at 01:20 PM. Reason: additional info.

  13. #13
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    Default R1135?

    It has R1135 oval and diamond plates, dash, ts rear end, large diameter steer col, 4 headlight front, badging, 22mm master cyl etc but is definitely not.


    To go with it there is the original R1135 sales / service card (all stamped for servicing etc) for the original owner (came from a guy in Blacktown NSW) and also the R1135 factory parts book (red one).


    But no cut outs in the font aprons below the headlights, no extra body bracing in the rear seat area, boot area, front wheel well, front boot area, the 1600 not the 1135 motor, 10s large spine 4spd gearbox, no 1135 stamped in the floor, no brake booster etc etc.


    Also the shell must be '64 because it has the L shape trims on the c's. I think it was 65 they removed these and went to the rectangle area on the c pillars because of the impending R10 body. I think most real 1135's should have this rectangle area not the L shape.

    Basically it was a written off R1135 was wrecked and put into a '64 shell.

    BR

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R8 Dream View Post
    Hi where did you get the front air intake. I looks fibreglass?
    Did you make it up from a mould, it really looks cool!
    Are you running the same radiator setup as Frans & Ross?
    Angelo
    Angelo,
    Yes it is the same intake. We used to call it a fishmouth.
    I brought mine in from ZA and Ross made a mould from it before I mounted it. So there is a mould in NZ and Johan had his made for about NZ$120.00. If you want one I can have it made and sent over to you.

    The radiator setup is slightly different in that we have a Jappa Radiator from a scrap yard fitted in front at an angle lying almost flat to fit it in, although that is the only difference. I have only 1 fan fitted that came with the radiator.

    Brett, I like your setup and it is looking good. No harm in sprucing things up and even better if it is not an original G.

    Regards,
    Frans

    PS Brett, sorry for hi-jacking your thread.
    Last edited by Frans; 27th August 2011 at 10:33 AM.
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    Young enough to do it anyway.

  15. #15
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    Default The weber carbs project

    I have been told that this 807 motor has been hotted up with cam etc.

    It has the standard 32/32 weber from a 16ts on it that had been rejetted but the carb looked worn and with a hot cam etc it was impossible to get it to idle ok little alone cold start performance as the choke had been wired open too.

    i had a couple of alfa 2 litre motors sitting around - i sought of figure dependant upon their trim they put out anything between 125HP - 138HP with 2 x 40mm DCOE webers so with the supposed work this motor has had and its very nice extractors they should be pretty right.

    I pair of inlets from mecaparts later and a two days of work and their on.

    A few notes for anyone wanting to do this.

    1) The mecaparts inlets had B and D stamped underneath but looked identical - i thought their may be left and right to aide with the carb spacing but no.

    2) They need notching to make a recess for the choke housings.

    3) Cylinder 2 (from flywheel) the inlet has no water jacket so the manifold needed to be cut down and re drilled.

    4) All had to have their bottom flange ground down to fit the block lip.

    5) Nice area available to tap for a booster (but do that before you mount your manifolds unlike me - had to rag in the inlet, vacuum etc).

    6) The webers will be so close that i had to grind down the throttle shafts and linkage to bring them close enough.

    7) The manifolds were pretty rough on the inside. Yes leave them rough'ish for great low speed driving as the fuel doesnt puddle on the unpolished surface - but no one cares about that - make them as nice and smooth and polished as possible for high speed HP. Spend sometime with a half round and then a small flapper disc on a drill.

    8) The manifolds were terrible in their mating to the head - mark them out and stick some rags down the inlets tight and grind away - when its matched make sure you use you flapper disc again to make it nice and smooth and also trim up those gaskets as well.

    7 & 8 done properly will net you 5-10+HP depending on your motors tune.

    9) Using an Alfa manifold will give you every bit of hardwear necessary to do this convo - you can use all the studs, nuts, linkage etc etc - even with a little mod you can use the alfa air box and cleaner which will neatly mount backwards and even would look a bit factory'ish.

    10) If you dont want to use the alfa air cleaner then the cheapest place to get trumpets in from a guy off ebay in Hungary - less than half price with shipping compared to anywhere else.

    These webers had been sitting around (garaged on a motor) for 13 years. I pulled the top covers and they looked great inside so no work at all to them.

    Finished with a .5mm aluminium sheet sut up and pop riveted to the inner wheel arch to stop the paint etc from becoming worn or covered in fuel etc etc etc - and it looks cool.

    In the puddings proof i ran up fuel pressure, gave them a few pumps and hit the starter. The engine started and ran but when i looked back at the dash the oil pressure warning light is on and the gauge reads zero.

    So i stuffed around with that for hours - nothing i did would make a difference - it had been up on ramps for 4 weeks - so eventually late last night i pulled the oil filter and used a marine outboard fuel line with the pump bulb in the middle - it has 5/16 line and with the ends cut off one goes into the the oil can and one into the threaded area of the block where the filter goes - pump and prime the the block, fill the filter, pump some back down the block delivery hole that goes to the pump, quickly put everything back together, pull the coil lead and then hit the starter until you see the pressure come up - all good now but what a nightmare.

    This week nights it will be brakes aiming to finish by this Sunday - will be putting in dual circuit mastercylinder running dual remote boosters, hydraulic handbrake, in cabin pressure limiters etc and new upgraded stuff all round.
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  16. #16
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    Default Hi Frans,

    Angelo, $120 for the fishmouth is a steal from Frans, it's great to see someone helping keep these R8's alive.

    and Frans no probs on the thread the more the merrier.

    BR

  17. #17
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    Default R8 Resto

    Quote Originally Posted by brettr View Post
    Angelo, $120 for the fishmouth is a steal from Frans, it's great to see someone helping keep these R8's alive.

    and Frans no probs on the thread the more the merrier.

    BR
    Hey BR
    By the look of the carb set up you need a bigger motor just to work them. Looks impressive, the question, how will she go ?
    I am going to be lazy and look at a bolt on Turbo with my 1400, the carbs are too much like hard work to keep it at peak performance, please correct me if I am wrong.
    Wayne
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  18. #18
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    The Webers once set up will keep their tune fine. The inlet manifolds you got, as you found were not correct ie. they are not supposed to be the same where they mount onto the head. Your Webers will most likely have 32mm venturiis and can be taken ot to 34mm for a good 16TS engine using 8000 rpm. 32s or even 30s will still work fine. On 34s I used 135-140 mains, 185 airs, F16 emulsion tubes, 40-45 F8 idles on fairly good engine at 11.3 to 1 making 145 Clydesdales.

    When fitting Webers I always tap the holes where the coolant would normally go into the standard manifold, and make up either stainless or aluminium bungs ( usually 3/8" whitworth) to put in the holes. This is so the gaskets do not get waterlogged at that point and stick, and so can be used again after you have gone to the trouble of taking them out to the size of the ports. I also coat the inlet gaskets in grease so they do not stick.

    I never did like socks over the ram tubes as it interrupts the airflow from behind the bellmouth and in my experience only stop rocks. A test I did on a Datto 1600 many years ago proved that 10 more HP at the wheels was available if the air was being taken in out of a large void area style air cleaner with the same ram tubes fitted. I am still at a loss why the rally guys like them so much. Easy to clean and fit is the only reason I can find

    I saw the result of oiled socks being used on a rally Alpine A110, the new engine had ingested great heaps of dirt to the detriment of the rings. When the carbs were removed dirt could plainly be seen down the inlet ports.

    I have seen the complete Alfa air cleaner assy used on a twin Webbered 16 TS powered Dauphine except the air intake was taken from the other end. It did look factory and fitted very well although I think the owner shortened a set of steel manifolds I had made to give clearance to do the job.
    Last edited by alan moore; 29th August 2011 at 08:36 PM. Reason: more info
    '56 Renault 750 (16TS Power)
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  19. #19
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    Default Hi Alan,

    Thanks for the jetting tips and yes its got 32 chokes in it - standard alfa 2L.

    And i was going to tap and bung the water jacket holes but i just got a little lazy - its a great idea.

    Ultimately this is just a temporary drivetrain solution. I have been working on modding up a 1990 MX5 rear end and Hayabusa engine combo to mount to standard R8 frame locations.

    The Hayabusa engine with 6spd sequential box runs in at 72kg - I havnt weighed the mx5 rear subframe yet but expect the combo to come in at less than 2/3's the standard R8 setup.

    I will be mounting the engine east west in the middle of the mx5 subframe which will put the intakes protruding past where the original fuel tanks firewall runs - pushing the weight bias further towards the front.

    It will chain drive to a Quaife reversing differential and mod the original mx5 driveshafts to fit, plus i will have to remake the rear hubs as they are not big enough to drill out a 3 x 150mm stud pattern. Early MX5's can run 13" rims so the new Madin's will clear the calipers etc.

    Its a fair bit of stuffing around, the mx5 rear subframe has to be narrowed and modded to accept the engine and diff.

    I've put alot of design work already into this combo trying to give the rear end a proper geometry and reduce the current pendulum effect of the rear end bias with that motor sticking out so far.

    Best part is it looks like it will be swapable between original setup and the new combo in a days work - which is no easy feat considering their is a second complete modded dash cluster etc to accompany the mechancicals etc so everything will need to be plugged for easy change.

    Its a big project that i will get back into after i get the car on the road, originally i was going through all the tech drawings with my local engineer for main stream rego but i thought easier to rego first then go.

    This was the best way but the hard way - the easy way is to gut the trans and use its casings to mount a diff facing the motor, then run the motor north south and run a porp shaft off the output to the diff. This would need an electric reverse to be used but would retain all the R8 stuff in the swing arm rear.

    These are low cost solutions - there are much better big dollar solutions using sandev sequentials bolted staright to modded busa engines that dont carry the trans etc.

    For anyone thinking of doing this convo it can be registered. Main points the engineer wants is.

    1) Brake upgrades - upgraded calipers, dual circuit and boostered to cope with the 200+HP.
    2) Demister must be working.
    3) If no dual speed wipers they must pass atleast a 45 cyles / min test.
    4) Must install a collapsible steering column.
    5) The engine centreline must stay behind the centreline of the rear wheels or it will be considered to be mid engined and therefore be categorised as a new constructed vehicle.
    6) Has to be a 2008+ Hayabusa engine as it must meet the emissions standards of the year of the engine (2007 prior didnt have any standard on emissions, 2008 model meets Euro II).
    7) Must retain atleast one original crossmember or 5 applies.
    8) Must install ADR compliant seatbelts.
    9) Nothing below 100mm off the ground.
    10) On road test after conversion is to his acceptance.

    Sorry probably off topic and a bit boring....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R8 upgrade project-dscn5344.jpg   R8 upgrade project-mx5rear-subframe.jpg   R8 upgrade project-dscn5345.jpg  
    bowie likes this.

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! Ross's Avatar
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    Default

    No no no, not boring, very interesting stuff.

    The only thing I would question is your weight calculation. By the time you add up the engine, quaife diff and mx5 subframe I would be surprised if it weighed a lot less than the standard setup. Obviously power will be up so you will still have a better power to weight ratio.

    I will be very interested in the progress so keep it coming
    Ross:

    1989 Alpine GTA Twin Turbo
    1962 Renault Dauphine Race Car
    1963 Renault R8
    1991 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    196? NSU Prinz 1200TT
    1989 Peugeot 205 GTi

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default Hi Ross,

    You could be very right.

    I searched the net everywhere to get a R8/10 etc drivetrain weight originally but no go.

    I just sort of had a stab of about 150kg but it had been so long since i pulled any of that stuff out (like 20 years ago) i just couldnt remember.

    Does anyone know a rough figure?

    ta

    BR

  22. #22
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    Default The front brakes and ducting project.

    Trying to finish the brake system by Sunday i thought it prudent to do the easy bit last night and put on all the new mecapart stuff, also install the brake ducting and take the chance to repack the bearings.

    As the factory was going for all round driving etc they have no venting on their discs at all - probably good to keep water / mud / grit / rocks etc off but shocking for preventing brake fade.

    R8 discs are a decent diameter, the swept area is not that great and an agressive disc compound / pad material should make up for that, but not being vented discs and not having any venting through the backing plate is an issue.

    On the Gordini's they placed the air ducting strakes into the front apron sides to try and allow some air to the discs.

    Actually i have to change my comment above - really the discs and calipers etc are pretty rubbishy compared to most modern setups (especially my evo 10!) but the car makes up for this by a low weight. So dont put 4 of your huge mates into an R8 and take a spirited drive through the snowies, first you get very scared (if you are still on those 135's) and then you will get very dead, probably while going backwards.

    Back on track though I think the best solution is to duct from the mouth, cable tie to the chassis rail then finish off cable tying the duct to the sway bar which allows a bit of movement to follow a cut out made in the backing plate.

    In my knowledge the whole theory of brake fade is that the disc becomes so hot a gaseous layer is formed on the disc face. The pads cannot permeate this micro sized gaseous layer and this is the reason why you press like hell and you dont stop - because the pads arnt really making contact with the disc. There is also fluid boiling fade but with disc brakes, alloy caliper - prob ok on an R8.

    Scat high temp tubing is rediculously priced but as there is no real workable (unless you go down to approx 2" tubing) solution for a duct mount to the backing plate due to space constraints so i used some hardware store 4" aluminium exhaust tubing - $26 for a compressed metre compared to $65 / metre expanded - mini cable tied to the mouth it is as tough as hell in there.

    The front tyres will be some soft 215/50/13 v70a Kuhmo's so they should really test out the fronting venting with some track / climb etc work.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R8 upgrade project-dsc01494.jpg   R8 upgrade project-dsc01495.jpg   R8 upgrade project-dsc01496.jpg   R8 upgrade project-dsc01499.jpg   R8 upgrade project-dsc01500.jpg  

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! r8waynerenault's Avatar
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    Default Brakes

    Quote Originally Posted by brettr View Post
    Trying to finish the brake system by Sunday i thought it prudent to do the easy bit last night and put on all the new mecapart stuff, also install the brake ducting and take the chance to repack the bearings.

    As the factory was going for all round driving etc they have no venting on their discs at all - probably good to keep water / mud / grit / rocks etc off but shocking for preventing brake fade.

    R8 discs are a decent diameter, the swept area is not that great and an agressive disc compound / pad material should make up for that, but not being vented discs and not having any venting through the backing plate is an issue.

    On the Gordini's they placed the air ducting strakes into the front apron sides to try and allow some air to the discs.

    Actually i have to change my comment above - really the discs and calipers etc are pretty rubbishy compared to most modern setups (especially my evo 10!) but the car makes up for this by a low weight. So dont put 4 of your huge mates into an R8 and take a spirited drive through the snowies, first you get very scared (if you are still on those 135's) and then you will get very dead, probably while going backwards.

    Back on track though I think the best solution is to duct from the mouth, cable tie to the chassis rail then finish off cable tying the duct to the sway bar which allows a bit of movement to follow a cut out made in the backing plate.

    In my knowledge the whole theory of brake fade is that the disc becomes so hot a gaseous layer is formed on the disc face. The pads cannot permeate this micro sized gaseous layer and this is the reason why you press like hell and you dont stop - because the pads arnt really making contact with the disc. There is also fluid boiling fade but with disc brakes, alloy caliper - prob ok on an R8.

    Scat high temp tubing is rediculously priced but as there is no real workable (unless you go down to approx 2" tubing) solution for a duct mount to the backing plate due to space constraints so i used some hardware store 4" aluminium exhaust tubing - $26 for a compressed metre compared to $65 / metre expanded - mini cable tied to the mouth it is as tough as hell in there.

    The front tyres will be some soft 215/50/13 v70a Kuhmo's so they should really test out the fronting venting with some track / climb etc work.
    It seems to me you are trying to get race type handling out of your current brakes rather than change to suit the conditions. If you purchase the right discs then would you need to make up an elaborate duct system ? please advise as I am considering changing the brakes totally to a modern type set up using 2000 tech.
    Wayne
    Wayne Vernon
    Reno R8 63
    Falcon XT GT 1969
    Ford Single Spinner Ute 49

  24. #24
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    Default Hi Wayne,

    This is my thinking and it could be very wrong.

    If you have your intended tyre for your "use" and it is up to its maximum "sticky" temperature and when at that point if you can lock your brakes in a progressively applied brake pedal motion from 140k+ then i theorise that the brakes can exert enough power to do the braking (these speeds are easily obtainable in your local back streets at night for testing purposes).

    Therefore if you can keep the assembly cool enough then it can continually provide your stopping power.

    Multi pot brakes give better feel and multiple surfaces for pad to piston contact and therefore heat to fluid transfer areas and also therefore cooling areas etc etc.

    Vented discs give 4 surface cooling compared to solids, etc etc.

    Tonight i am probably going to pull it all down again and completely cut my backing plates off following the caliper mounting bracket - i was in two minds last night but it is a one way street that cut. I think this makes more sense than just a small cut out duct and also if a rock flicks up in their they make an awful noise until you get them out.

    And the ducting is easy to run - holesaw two 4" holes from the front apron side if you are running no bumper sides or two 4" in the spare swing down if you have no spare - you know it may be possible even with the spare at the sides of the swing down.

    You can also squish the tube so it becomes 6" wide and 2" high and start them at the main rails where the bumper bolts so as not to lose clearance.

    Those main ducts are a simple job - i will be running two from either side of the gearbox and then right angled out along the swing arm tubes to the rear discs as well - easy and cheap.

    I also will be running a dual circuit 21.6mm master cylinder and two VH44's and in cabin pressure limter in my setup (with a hydraulic handbrake to boot) - the mecaparts calipers are still only 38mm front but the rear replacements are 38mm as well (compared to 32mm) but i will be running kumho v70a 235/45/13 rear tyres which will allow a fair bit of rear bias too. I spose i will put mecaparts claims to the test - they say the setup is practically equiv to the R16 setup - i mean the special material they say is in the rotors may be a softer steel to improve the bite but increase the wear, who knows?

    I also looked at mx5 front stubs which looked fairly close to R8 ones but that was before i got the car - maybe the go is to find a compatible stub axle assembly and change the ball joints or re reem stub to accept R8 ball joints etc etc etc.

    Once again i have never run any heat guns or anything like that on surfaces after mods (i just feel it out) and do most things from experience or what just seems to make sense - and by the way im a computer programmer so what would i know about cars?

    And seriously, its only the brakes - what could go wrong?

    BR

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! JodieK's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brettr View Post
    - and by the way im a computer programmer so what would i know about cars?

    And seriously, its only the brakes - what could go wrong?

    BR
    Ha.. same thing Xerox said.. " Seriously, Jobs only wants a quick look through the factory, what could go wrong."

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