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Thread: Peugeot 403 wagon restoration

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCOATES505 View Post
    ...
    I have no idea how many hours I have spent, 500 would be a conservative estimate ...some of the major costs are :-

    Engine rebuild $2000
    Brakes $750
    Paint , body deadener etc. $1000
    Bearings and seals for gearbox, wheels, axles etc. $300+
    Seals and channels for doors and windows $700
    Upholstery $500 so far probably another $500 to go
    Panel beaters repairs to doors and rear quarters $600 "cheap"

    Iwill do the math for you $5850
    I have no doubt this will be an amazing car when finished, Pete, we have come to expect that from you. But a look at the numbers shows how financially devastating a project of this sort can be when it's done at such a high level. If you pay for labor, 500 hours would cost at the very least $30,000, add another $4,000 for the items still needed and you end up with a real cost of $40,000. Not to mention the time spent trawling for parts, often NLA. A decent 403 wagon can be had for 1000 euro, the most expensive fully restored I could find is this:
    http://www.leboncoin.fr/voitures/219282102.htm?ca=19_s
    at 6100 euro which I am sure is just a fraction of the restoration cost. Bottom line, whoever embarks on a project of this sort does so knowing that this is money spent never to be recovered; compensation is in the form of the happiness derived in resurrecting the car. I was offered a very nice 403 and a 304 cabriolet last year as gifts. I struggled with the thought, but declined because I have to pay labor for anything more complicated than a tire change. The 403 eventually went to the wreckers, thankfully a friend rescued the 304.

    On another note, I saw the Avocado 504 rally car on one of the photos and it made me nostalgic; anything happening there?

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    Last edited by Thanos; 8th August 2011 at 01:36 AM.

  2. #27
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    Default Bloody good memory

    Quote Originally Posted by catshamlet View Post
    Hope you kicked the cat's arse for strolling across your handiwork. My guess is it's a ten year old ginger tom? (I was an injun tracker in a former life).



    Mike.
    Your memory is better than mine Mike.

    Peugeot 403 wagon restoration-duo-flaked.jpg

    I am gunna get another 403 on the road........one day

  3. #28
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    I'm surprised Thanos, I thought you were a mechanic.

    I don't really agree with you on this evaluation for a couple of reasons.
    Firstly any car that you own , in any condition, needs a lot of time spent on it just to keep it in good condition. If you have to pay for every bit of this care, you will no doubt be better off recycling new or newish cars.
    If you have an old car and do it all yourself, there will be small and large jobs over the years. To add all those hours and charge yourself out to yourself at $60per hour is simply silly.
    But that aside, to get a car that has been restored to the standard that Pete is doing is next to impossible. And perhaps they are worth the price of a new Peugeot when finished. I certainly think so.
    At this moment restored Peugeots may not fetch such a premium on the open market. However when you look at the price in Australia, of horrible old Fords and Holdens, some even more than $50,000, I think a time will probably come when these old beautifully restored pugs will command a proper equivalent value. I hope so. They are getting pretty scarce already. Meatheads will always look for meathead cars of course,[you know , like Dino][only joking Dino], but hopefully there is a growing sophistication among the new breed.
    Finally, it's such fun doing up these beautiful old machines that most who do just get a buzz from the process and later a huge reward from the finished product. I don't think people should be put off, but it is of course important for the beginner to realize what they are embarking upon if possible.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanos View Post
    I saw the Avocado 504 rally car on one of the photos and it made me nostalgic; anything happening there?

    Hi Thanos,
    3 years of drought and low income, put a stop tp rallying, and other activities.
    To be able to rally, someone else has to milk the cows. my wife used to do this, but these days were are milking more cows, and it's not a burden I want to put on her as she has back problems,
    so to go to a rally I would have to pay for a releif milker, adding a further $100 to the cost of the rally.
    I think I will have to give it a miss.
    My plan this summer is to concentrate on getting the wagon painted and start on the re-assembly. I am not looking for a concourse car , but one that I can drive and enjoy, without worrying about it getting a few chips or scratches.
    The cost of restoration was never a factor, it was done solely for the pleasure of doing it, That having been said it does irk me that a Peugeot 403 has no realistic value.


    cheers Pete

    I am gunna get another 403 on the road........one day

  5. #30
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    Default Panel Beater

    Quote Originally Posted by PCOATES505 View Post
    wagon is currently at a panel beaters getting some dents removed (they were well beyond my capabilities). It had accident damage to the passenger side rear quarter which had been poorly repaired, a nasty crease through the drivers side rear guard arch and a dent in the roof

    Attachment 19111

    Attachment 19112 Attachment 19113 Attachment 19114


    and now it looks like this

    Attachment 19115 Attachment 19116


    now I wait until it comes home again.
    cheers Pete
    Panel beater got enthusiastic after repairing the dents and started squirting paint.


    Peugeot 403 wagon restoration-403-wagon-repairs-009.jpg Peugeot 403 wagon restoration-403-wagon-repairs-010.jpg

    This is progressing faster than planned.

    cheers Pete

    I am gunna get another 403 on the road........one day

  6. #31
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    Just wondering if you took the windscreen out for the panel beater? Had seen it in there for most of the work till now.
    Congrats, it's getting better all the time. What will the final colour be?

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    Just wondering if you took the windscreen out for the panel beater? Had seen it in there for most of the work till now.
    Congrats, it's getting better all the time. What will the final colour be?
    We took the remaining windows out when I delivered the wagon to the panel beaters. I had no idea how the side windows came out, turned out they were just held in with some sealer and a steel trim screwed in place to stop it falling out. The windsrceen had to come out to release the hood lining, so the roof could be repaired.

    Colour is a pale blue.

    Peugeot 403 wagon restoration-403-wagon-repairs-008.jpg

    cheers Pete

    I am gunna get another 403 on the road........one day

  8. #33
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    Default Some progress

    Well after repairing the rear quarters, the doors were re-fitted and the fit of the drivers side doors were checked, I knew there was a problem in this area. The gap between the doors was too small and the rear door was touching the dogleg. The panel beater attacked the B pillar with a porta power and got the door gaps looking very good.

    Peugeot 403 wagon restoration-wagon-paint-002.jpg


    The body shell is all painted now and the doors are ready for paint.

    Peugeot 403 wagon restoration-wagon-paint-001.jpg Peugeot 403 wagon restoration-wagon-paint-003.jpg Peugeot 403 wagon restoration-wagon-paint-004.jpg

    The covering of dust takes the shine off.

    Work has started on the bonnet, I only delivered it on Wednesday evening.

    Peugeot 403 wagon restoration-wagon-paint-005.jpg

    Cheers Pete

    I am gunna get another 403 on the road........one day

  9. #34
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    This looks really nice, Pete! What are your plans for the interior and wheel colors?

  10. #35
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    Default Undecided

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanos View Post
    This looks really nice, Pete! What are your plans for the interior and wheel colors?
    The interior is pale blue on the steel parts and a mottled dark blue on all the vinyl trim bits.
    Seats are cloth trimmed in the centre with blue vinyl surrounds.

    Peugeot 403 wagon restoration-wagon-seats-002.jpg Peugeot 403 wagon restoration-wagon-seats-003.jpg

    I Haven't decided on the wheels as yet, I like the white spokes, but the tyre profile is too low for touring, I might stick with the original wheels, painted the same colour as the car.

    Peugeot 403 wagon restoration-wagon-paint-007.jpg


    cheers Pete

    I am gunna get another 403 on the road........one day

  11. #36
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    It's going to look fantastic with this color scheme. I like the white spokes a lot, too low for touring but good for blasting?

  12. #37
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    They look comfy, what are the seats from?



    Mike.
    Started out with nothing, still got most of it left.

  13. #38
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    Default Seats

    Quote Originally Posted by catshamlet View Post
    They look comfy, what are the seats from?



    Mike.
    Mike
    Seats are from an ,89 Peugeot 405. They require an elaborate bracket to get the seat base sitting on the correct angle.

    cheers Pete

    I am gunna get another 403 on the road........one day

  14. #39
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    Just a couple of thoughts on Peugeot values. A couple of years ago I transported a 403b from Birdwood (a garage oposite the museum) for a local bloke. The car was mechanically perfect, with a reconditioned motor and original interior but needing paint and chrome. It has since had them and is to my mind a perfect 403. I believe the owner would sell for 10k plus which to my mind would make it a bargain with an almost certain rise in value assured. That is double what perfect 403's sold for a decade ago. There are a couple of reasons for low 403 values. One is they just aren't old enough. There were at least 15000 sold and there are still $10 cars around. The 203's were the same. A decade ago a one owner 203C with around 30,000 miles on the clock but paddock stored went for $10 at a clearing sale and cars were still picked up for free. Only now are 203 values beginning to rise with talk of an original early model going for over $20,000. Wagons are fairly rare, and a well restored 403 wagon with a high level of originality will be assured of a substantial value - eventually.
    The other point is that to appeal to collectors, who not only want to enjoy the car but to see it as an investment, a high level of originality is essential.

  15. #40
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    Default Hope you are right

    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Hall View Post
    Wagons are fairly rare, and a well restored 403 wagon with a high level of originality will be assured of a substantial value - eventually.
    The other point is that to appeal to collectors, who not only want to enjoy the car but to see it as an investment, a high level of originality is essential.
    That is the reason I went to great lengths to make brackets for the 405 seats, whilst maintaining the original seat mountings. I have the 405 seats for comfortable touring, I need a bit more back support now that I an in my 60's, but the original seats can easily be refitted. The only non-standard item inside the car is inertia reel seat belts and under the bonnet, a thermatic engine fan.
    cheers Pete

    I am gunna get another 403 on the road........one day

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCOATES505 View Post
    That is the reason I went to great lengths to make brackets for the 405 seats, whilst maintaining the original seat mountings. I have the 405 seats for comfortable touring, I need a bit more back support now that I an in my 60's, but the original seats can easily be refitted. The only non-standard item inside the car is inertia reel seat belts and under the bonnet, a thermatic engine fan.
    cheers Pete
    Hi Pete,

    After our PCCV weekend a Gunbower I dragged the 403 wagon out of the shed and have taken it to the panel beaters for its final coats of paint.

    I had it completely stripped back to bare metal a couple of years ago and it was then under coated.

    I still have a problem with the rear right hand side guard that has had a ding but I can't find a good one to replace it with so I might have to get it repaired. Trouble is panel beater only want to replace these days.

    Never mind you have inspired me to get off my bum and do something.

    Lyn's not too happy through. I think she can see another $10,000 going.

    Never mind it is a good thing that we do.

    Hope you are well. Regards Graham

  17. #42
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    The trouble with the wagons was the commercial interior. My 1958 had the most uncomfortable seats and everything was cheap - one sunvisor, plastic door handles, no trip meter or water temp gauge. They spent so much on the mechanicals they let the accountants loose on the commercial interiors. They charged a lot more for the wagons but even so only made about 2% on them. At least the 1960 model had sedan seats but those Australian seats were thick and uncomfortable with the covering of a cheap kitchen chair. The 403b was better but far from ideal. Some of the French restorations actually go back to the cheap interior but it's a let down in a nice restoration. Pity they didn't use the familiale trim. In 1969 Alan Crabbe in Ballarat had a nice Kenyan familiale for sale. Bought by a tradesman who stripped out the extra seats. My wagon was great but I worked it hard and it was worn - I must have put well over 200,000 miles on an old car. Used to crack its chassis above the crossmember. Noisy as anything on the highway, but a friend turned up one night with a magnificent nearly new 403b wagon and it was so quiet and smooth and fast. I would love one as good.

  18. #43
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    This might surprise some but my first Peugeot was a 1957 403 wagon and if I could re-live again it would be my first and only car for ever. I bought it in 1972 with 120,000 on the clock, Witho's old man had been around Australia and everywhere in it and thought it had done too many miles for him. I sold it 14 miles short of 400,000 and have regreted the sale eversince (I had bought a new 1977 504 wagon which would be my second favourite vehicle ever).
    The bird I sold it to managed to fail to give way to the right and destoyed it and the police valiant, breaking the superinendent of police's ankle in the process, after only owning it for 9 days. You could still open and close all the doors and the bonnet but the front bumper was moved about five inches to the left.
    I did manage to buy the wreck back about 15 years later, we had to dig it out of a vegie patch (true story), but it had all but gone to God by then. The remains sit in a paddock with other Peugeots of similar ilk (wonderful rusty relics) so I like to think it can sit there and swap stories with them and tell them about where we went and who and what we saw.
    FLASH

  19. #44
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    Default Correct again

    The wagon interior was unbelievably stark, a monotone of drab colour. The front seats are no where near as comfortable as those in a sedan, hence the 405 seats. I thought about padding the rear seats a bit, but thought this might compromise the laying flat of the back seat, so I just recoverd them in cloth and vinyl. At least the colour scheme is a bit brighter. Haven't decided on the door trims yet, would like map pockets on the front doors, perhaps a two tone trim with a strip of carpet across the bottom. I will have to consult my colour co-ordinator (wife).

    cheers Pete
    Last edited by PCOATES505; 28th September 2011 at 06:44 AM.

    I am gunna get another 403 on the road........one day

  20. #45
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    The 1958 sedan had map pockets. I always thought it had a stylish interior. I've got to agree on the 403 wagon. Of all the cars I've owned it's the one I would like most again. Loaded up with camping gear on the roof, a big army tent, going through the bush tracks down to empty beaches. Poor students with absolutely no money but it never let us down. Except for things like wiper motors because I always used second hand stuff. Put new Michelin X on it when I left Melbourne in 1976, Had the wheel alignment checked and the blokes thought it funny for such expensive new tyres on an old car. On reflection he did say the alignment was perfect unlike the nearly new Falcon he was working on. Never quite the same after my brother t-boned a car with it after leaving the Renault plant and I repaired it myself. Rusting away at the hayshed. I've never sold a Peugeot I owned. Be like getting rid of a sheep dog because it was old.

  21. #46
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    Pete I admire your skills, patience and the time you put into this restoration and the earlier 403. This is one lucky 403 wagon to have fallen into your ownership.

    Having had a go at repainting an unloved Honda City about 2o years ago, the amount of preparation time and hard work was staggering. I wish I had your skill set. Perhaps come retirement a project like you take on might be tenable. Assembling a couple of Triton stands with a workmate last night the teamwork, caring and sharing aspect was quite enjoyable. Perhaps a retirement Mens Shed car restoration group might work for me. Haven't decided yet whether spending hours in a garage working on a car alone would be solitude or loneliness. Now if the garage was barnlike, had perhaps a bar and kitchen, an upstairs area with a lounge, a big screen TV . But with all these distractions getting work done might be a problem.

    No doubt there is an ideal setup to aid a systematic approach... perhaps a garage with plenty of bench space, shadow boards for tools and maybe a pit for working underneath a car. Or some sort of hydraulic hoist or powerjacks and stands? Or a rotisserie like you have Pete!!

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by J'aime la vie View Post
    Pete I admire your skills, patience and the time you put into this restoration and the earlier 403. This is one lucky 403 wagon to have fallen into your ownership.

    No doubt there is an ideal setup to aid a systematic approach... perhaps a garage with plenty of bench space, shadow boards for tools and maybe a pit for working underneath a car. Or some sort of hydraulic hoist or powerjacks and stands? Or a rotisserie like you have Pete!!
    Building the rotisserie was well worth the effort, it made things very easy, most of the rust repair welding could be done on the horizontal, but I think that buying a 2 post hoist was the smartest thing I have done in a long while, beats the hell out of laying on your back under a car.

    cheers Pete

    I am gunna get another 403 on the road........one day

  23. #48
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    Default coming home soon

    Painter has almost finished

    Peugeot 403 wagon restoration-wagon-paint-012.jpg Peugeot 403 wagon restoration-wagon-paint-015.jpg

    But I still have a shitload to do

    cheers Pete

    I am gunna get another 403 on the road........one day

  24. #49
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    Default It's Back

    The wagon is home sitting in the shed, been there for a month, haven't had time to even look at it.

    Peugeot 403 wagon restoration-wagon-paint-019.jpg Peugeot 403 wagon restoration-wagon-paint-016.jpg

    Peugeot 403 wagon restoration-wagon-paint-017.jpg Peugeot 403 wagon restoration-wagon-paint-018.jpg

    So much to do, so little time.
    cheers Pete

    I am gunna get another 403 on the road........one day

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCOATES505 View Post
    been there for a month, haven't had time to even look at it.


    cheers Pete
    Well on behalf of us that have had time to look at it, may I say it looks bloody great.



    Mike.
    Started out with nothing, still got most of it left.

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