205 Gti club car
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  1. #1
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    Default 205 Gti club car

    The build of the club car is going well. Aiming for 200+ hp and under 850kgs.



    Have the mi16 engine on Quads




    The cage is going in



    Seem Welding Done



    All built in the car port (not ideal)



    Was a nice car



    Once finished should be something like this



    More progess shots







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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! DjB8V's Avatar
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    What kind of quads are they?

    Also, how are you planning on getting 200hp?


    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by DjB8V View Post
    What kind of quads are they?

    Also, how are you planning on getting 200hp?


    Chris
    a) Not sure

    b) Money

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    Hahahahaha... Nice

    You played around with Pugs much before? If you plan on spending some coins maybe start with a better motor, 306GTi6 or 206GTI180 perhaps. There was a thread dedicated to this topic done not long ago. Its a good read.

    Keep us updated.



    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by 205 Maxi View Post
    a) Not sure

    b) Money
    They look like my old quads....and if they are they are from Peter Brocks old touring 405 mi.
    jr20516v

    Now:
    Exige SC [modded], 205 Si. 205 GTi , Megane R26 LY , Megane 225 [modded ]


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DjB8V View Post
    Hahahahaha... Nice

    You played around with Pugs much before? If you plan on spending some coins maybe start with a better motor, 306GTi6 or 206GTI180 perhaps. There was a thread dedicated to this topic done not long ago. Its a good read.

    Keep us updated.



    Chris
    I have not played that much with pugs. I have had a few race cars though

    - Nissan Sunny 1.2 l (handled brilliant but under powered)
    - Escort 2.0 Mk 1 (great car but ultimatly to expensive to improve)
    - AE86 Toyota Corolla (Great package, always regretted selling it)
    - Diahatsu Charade Detomaso ( Wow what a suprise - we did alot of development but never got more than 92kw at the wheels - mind you for 880kgs it was a great car - ended up 12th out of a 80 car field once!! It did shame a number of wrx's and vr4's)
    - Honda Civic vtec - (also a great package - wow what an engine!!!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYKCD_RXPfQ we are at 6.24 in

    and now the 205 - Just because I have always liked them
    Last edited by 205 Maxi; 7th April 2011 at 08:15 PM.

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! DjB8V's Avatar
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    Motors available for 205s, essentially a std 8 valve, Mi16, GTi6 and 206GTI180 motor are all different. For 200hp I would go straight for either the GTi6 or GTI180 motor. They make good horsepower from the start.

    200hp is quite a horsepower figure to chase with no form of forced induction so, and without sounding rude, best of luck.

    Chris

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    I had 200hp without ITBs, easy to achieve with the right bits, especially if it has ITBs, the right cams and management. (=$ though) If you want over 220hp there needs a bit more money to be spent. I would use an Iron block Mi16 though...

    Cam
    98 Xantia CT
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
    92 405 Mi16
    87 205 GTi Race Car
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

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    For value for money, considering your going to rebuild it, a well sorted GTi6 is hard to go past. Ive just had one rebuilt and the cost was not to bad. Using a Haltech, Cams and a few other bits it should make over 200hp with a great torque spread. As soon as it mapped ill post results.
    Cam
    98 Xantia CT
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    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

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    given that you are chasing 850Kg we can assume you dont really plan on putting a T16 kit on it?
    How much do you think the cage might weigh? did you weigh all the bits of tube before welding?
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
    1998 S1 Lotus Elise
    2013 Fiesta ST
    2014 Audi SQ5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    given that you are chasing 850Kg we can assume you dont really plan on putting a T16 kit on it?
    How much do you think the cage might weigh? did you weigh all the bits of tube before welding?
    Kerb Weight - 875 standard.

    Less - seats (40), carpet (4) Underlay (6), seat belts (2.5), A/C and hoses and loom (11), heater (4), glovebox (1), roof lining (1), steel brackets (1), body deadner (4)= as far as I can estimate 75 kgs. Plus a few kilos in other bits adding another reduction of 10kgs. Plus no spare wheel or holder (15 kgs)

    = 785 - 800kg

    Plus Cage (35 - 40kg) and seat (7.5) and belts (1.5) should see us under 850kg.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 205 Maxi View Post
    Kerb Weight - 875 standard.

    Less - seats (40), carpet (4) Underlay (6), seat belts (2.5), A/C and hoses and loom (11), heater (4), glovebox (1), roof lining (1), steel brackets (1), body deadner (4)= as far as I can estimate 75 kgs. Plus a few kilos in other bits adding another reduction of 10kgs. Plus no spare wheel or holder (15 kgs)

    = 785 - 800kg

    Plus Cage (35 - 40kg) and seat (7.5) and belts (1.5) should see us under 850kg.
    I am down to 804kg with no interior or aircon and custom wiring. oh and with the 7inch alloys, more with the compomotives....
    90 205 Gti Cherry Red(Track Car)
    2009 207gti
    1985 505gti (Shitbox Rally) Sold

    PBs:

    Oran Park: 1:27:9
    Wakefield: 1:05.6 (July 2015)
    Eastern Creek: 1:54 (8v) 1:48 (16V)
    Mt Huntley: 34.44 (2004 stock 205)
    Ringwood: 35.06 (30/10/2005)
    Winton: 1:33.6 (2017)

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 205 Maxi View Post
    Kerb Weight - 875 standard.

    Less - seats (40), carpet (4) Underlay (6), seat belts (2.5), A/C and hoses and loom (11), heater (4), glovebox (1), roof lining (1), steel brackets (1), body deadner (4)= as far as I can estimate 75 kgs. Plus a few kilos in other bits adding another reduction of 10kgs. Plus no spare wheel or holder (15 kgs)

    = 785 - 800kg

    Plus Cage (35 - 40kg) and seat (7.5) and belts (1.5) should see us under 850kg.
    The local cars are 930 kg.
    My Si rally car sits 15mm higher at the front after removing stuff and adding the very light cage.
    The Si WAS 875 kg to start with. Differences I can think of are front brakes, underbonnet insulation, lighter inlet manifold, slightly smaller rear brakes, slightly thinner rear torsion bars, and maybe the biggest thing, very light wheels and tyres.
    I should go and weigh it.
    Graham

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    Quote Originally Posted by parry View Post
    I am down to 804kg with no interior or aircon and custom wiring. oh and with the 7inch alloys, more with the compomotives....

    804kg !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    LOL. Awesome work Parry.


    Chris

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    you could always dump a 406 V6 in it , but that wouldent do very good for weight or handeling but so much power......

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    The local cars are 930 kg.
    My Si rally car sits 15mm higher at the front after removing stuff and adding the very light cage.
    The Si WAS 875 kg to start with. Differences I can think of are front brakes, underbonnet insulation, lighter inlet manifold, slightly smaller rear brakes, slightly thinner rear torsion bars, and maybe the biggest thing, very light wheels and tyres.
    I should go and weigh it.
    Graham
    I have now weighed it,
    Stripped out but with added roll cage, sump guard, strut brace, fire extinguishers and heavy rally tyres it weighs 910 kg.
    Probably 890 with road tyres.
    I can remove another 15kg or so by fitting a dry cell battery and maybe 20 kg by using competition seats, so lowest possible weight with rally equipment but road tyres would be 855.
    Then start fitting perspex and fibreglass!
    Regarding sitting high, the battery has been moved back and heavy things from the front such as air con have been removed.

    Graham

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    Mine is 910Kg with me in it. You're on the right track. I've since lost 10Kg myself, so should be 900 now!

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    Maxi, can you help us (just me?!) on how you bent up the cage tubing? Is there any sort of inexpensive tube bender that you can get or a way to do it at home. I was also thinking that I could get the metal shop to do the few bends for me if I give them a model.

    Also, how are you cutting all the end notches of the tubes - angle grinder or one of those neat cutters?

    Also, can I presume an arc welder isnt good enough for this type of work - i am worried about blowing holes in the thin metal body work.

    cheers mate, nice work so far.

    also, how are you getting the car to events - a trailer?
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
    1998 S1 Lotus Elise
    2013 Fiesta ST
    2014 Audi SQ5

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    Maxi, can you help us (just me?!) on how you bent up the cage tubing? Is there any sort of inexpensive tube bender that you can get or a way to do it at home. I was also thinking that I could get the metal shop to do the few bends for me if I give them a model.
    I have seen cheap pipe benders in Super Cheap, not sure of the quality though. You would probably be able to hire a pipe bender from Kennards or Coates http://www.coateshire.com.au/product...spx?G=30&P=461 That may work out a cheaper option and it means you dont have one cluttering up your garage when not in use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    also, how are you getting the car to events - a trailer?
    Depends, if you go the full hog and get the car CAMS logbooked, you are able to get special registration for it that allows you to drive to and from events and other applicable places. But that involves jumping through a few hoops - especially regarding rollover protection. Otherwise it's a trailer job.

    Matt
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlb View Post
    I have seen cheap pipe benders in Super Cheap, not sure of the quality though. You would probably be able to hire a pipe bender from Kennards or Coates http://www.coateshire.com.au/product...spx?G=30&P=461 That may work out a cheaper option and it means you dont have one cluttering up your garage when not in use.



    Depends, if you go the full hog and get the car CAMS logbooked, you are able to get special registration for it that allows you to drive to and from events and other applicable places. But that involves jumping through a few hoops - especially regarding rollover protection. Otherwise it's a trailer job.

    Matt
    I think that's only for rallies but if Vicroads start cracking down then maybe that could be extended to driving to speed events motorkhanas etc.
    I drove my 205 to Bendigo yesterday with a full tank, competed all day, drove home and still have heaps of fuel left. I would hate to have to tow it everywhere, expensive and enviromentally irresponsible, just to keep some bureaucrat happy.
    By the way the Si suspension is working great, much easier to chuck into a corner than the GTi set up. I only saw one time and it was on the money (only a second behind a mega dollar BDA Escort driven by an experienced driver) looking forward to seeing the complete results.
    Graham
    Last edited by GRAHAM WALLIS; 8th May 2011 at 01:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    I think that's only for rallies but if Vicroads they start cracking down then maybe that could be extended to driving to speed events motorkhanas etc.
    I think you may be right, as I am talking about the rally cars we have here - hence why I cautioned about the hoop jumping. The car would need to be log booked as per the rally code, which really aren't that onerous besides the ROP.

    The reason I mentioned it was that we often have some rally cars competing in our hill climbs etc. Writing it off as 'testing' and the passage to and from being considered part of that. This is in Tassie though, so Vic may be a bit more stringent.
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    The cage was a group effort. Andy Crane and Co are building another 205 so - they made up a cage template using PVC pipe to get the angles right and then bent up the 44mm CDS steel into 2 x front legs and a main hoop. Incidently the bends where done off the PVC template by a local exhaust place.

    We then bought these 3 pieces and 4 lengths of straight 38mm CDS steel supplied from Racetech steel. The floor plates and floor boxes where made by me using 3mm plate steel cut into shape.

    The cross braces where cut an notched by me using a mid sized drill press and a special notcher from speedworx and normal metal hole saws.

    The welding in is done by a friend of mine who has done a dozen cages.

    Whilst direct costs are low (less than $400) this process takes time...About 28hrs so far and I have about 6 hrs to go!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 205 Maxi View Post
    The cage was a group effort. Andy Crane and Co are building another 205 so - they made up a cage template using PVC pipe to get the angles right and then bent up the 44mm CDS steel into 2 x front legs and a main hoop. Incidently the bends where done off the PVC template by a local exhaust place.

    We then bought these 3 pieces and 4 lengths of straight 38mm CDS steel supplied from Racetech steel. The floor plates and floor boxes where made by me using 3mm plate steel cut into shape.

    The cross braces where cut an notched by me using a mid sized drill press and a special notcher from speedworx and normal metal hole saws.

    The welding in is done by a friend of mine who has done a dozen cages.

    Whilst direct costs are low (less than $400) this process takes time...About 28hrs so far and I have about 6 hrs to go!

    Excellent, some great tips there. 30+ hours of work all to stop you dying in .01 Sec!

    I presume that the steel tubing is relatively cheap and that the exhaust shop labour time is short once they have the model to copy.

    I guess that if you value your leisure time at $0 per hour and you like building things, then it makes sense, otherwise best for the pros to get it done. I personally always need a few projects on the go, and the excuse to buy more tools...
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
    1998 S1 Lotus Elise
    2013 Fiesta ST
    2014 Audi SQ5

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    I think that's only for rallies but if Vicroads start cracking down then maybe that could be extended to driving to speed events motorkhanas etc.
    I drove my 205 to Bendigo yesterday with a full tank, competed all day, drove home and still have heaps of fuel left. I would hate to have to tow it everywhere, expensive and enviromentally irresponsible, just to keep some bureaucrat happy.
    By the way the Si suspension is working great, much easier to chuck into a corner than the GTi set up. I only saw one time and it was on the money (only a second behind a mega dollar BDA Escort driven by an experienced driver) looking forward to seeing the complete results.
    Graham

    Graham, I agree with you about trailering, unless the car breaks at the event of course.

    My only concern is that if you have a prang on the way there, then your inspected car may be deemd unroadworthy due to the cage and you are exposed to all 3rd party liabilities.

    So your Si suspension is entirely standard right? does the less weight at the front and the strut brace make a big difference?

    Well done on the times.
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
    1998 S1 Lotus Elise
    2013 Fiesta ST
    2014 Audi SQ5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    Graham, I agree with you about trailering, unless the car breaks at the event of course.

    My only concern is that if you have a prang on the way there, then your inspected car may be deemd unroadworthy due to the cage and you are exposed to all 3rd party liabilities.

    So your Si suspension is entirely standard right? does the less weight at the front and the strut brace make a big difference?

    Well done on the times.
    I ended up beating the BDA on the day and another mega power Escort, Nissan FJ20 powered.
    No 2wd car, except for the super light weight (corflute floored!) early Laser with Probe V6, was more than a second faster per run and there was only a handful that beat me.
    So it looks like the Si suspension will stay for the time being at least.
    Standard except for Koni yellow shocks in the front and GTi shocks in the rear.
    It really turns in, no understeer at all, and plenty of controllable tail out.
    You just chuck it into the corner with the steering, no need for handbrake or left foot braking.
    The times will improve as I become more confident with this.
    Talk to Dave Robinson at Performance Exhaust Ringwood re the tube bending.
    9870 4977
    Graham

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