Binky; the 1964 Peugeot 404
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Binky's Avatar
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    Default Binky; the 1964 Peugeot 404

    Well it has been quite a learning experience. I was in love with Binky as soon as I replaced my EH Holden wagon with her. The origins of the nomenclature lie in the fantasy novels written by Terry Pratchett where the Grim Reaper "Death" rides a white horse he calls "Binky". My Girlfriend at the time thought the name was fitting, and so it has stuck...

    I wish I had the foresight to take more photos before the restoration began, but I've only got what I've only got...

    Firstly, I'd like to extend much thanks to JarrodS (is he still here?) for supplying me with a wreck with a very nice C3 gearbox and diff. Secondly I'd like to thank Graham Wallis for being able to provide me with some history on this car, as well as a number of parts.

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    When I was driving the car daily, I decided it deserved to be restored. Not to showroom, just to a really good condition that would serve me as a daily driver until I couldn't drive anymore - just another 46 years or so...

    I've done the mechanical work myself, but I've got a good family friend to do the rust repair and paintwork. He's not so much a spraypainter, as an old school coach builder. He does amazing work, fabricating panels from scratch, and usually working on cars worth 10 or 20 times the value of a vintage Peugeot.

    Anyway, here's a pick of her partly disassembled in his workshop:





    ...Yes, that's an Alfa 105 in front of her...

    Here's a few pics of her (almost) finished:




    Here's Binky next to my Dad's 1955 203 - re painted by the same guy:



    I see ya baby... shakin' that ass!!

    Last edited by Binky; 10th February 2011 at 08:07 PM.

  2. #2
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    Keep up the good work! Does this car have the 3 bearing crankshaft still?
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    Hey mate, so glad to see the nearly-finished result! Looks great!

    Glad to hear that the springs are to your liking, I'm yet to fit mine, I'm sure RobMac will like the feedback, too! How do you fin the LIP dampers?

    I 'might' have a lead on some slotted wheels......

    I still have my wreck in the yard, no real progress of late.....

    Hope you're well,


    Rob.

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    Fellow Frogger! Binky's Avatar
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    Obviously she ain't finished yet, but she's finished enough to be registered now. I'm still waiting on a few bits from overseas, and I'll be looking to my fellow froggers for a spare set of wheels, and a pair of sill panels.

    The bumpers and upholstery will have to wait until I have the money (probably at least a year).

    Once I have sill panels and wheels, I'll be keeping one set of wheels standard, and getting one set widened, then going back to my friend and getting them all painted up nicely.

    There's still plenty to do, but it's all stuff I can do on the move. So next on the menu is to change front wheel bearings and front end bushes. I've just put a set of LIP dampers in the front and installed brand new "Robmac" spec springs all 'round. Thanks to Rob for doing all the research, and thanks to Wombat200 (a different Rob) for organising a set of the springs for me when he got his made.

    First impressions with the new suspension is that the car has gone from handling very well to handling ludicrously well. I lost a subaru liberty on a windy bit of road the other day (downhill, of course!) and I hadn't got to the limits of traction yet. Sign saying recommended speed 55km/h? No worries, I'll just gently pull her around at 100!! Sure the ride is a little firmer, but it's still more cruisy than stiff modern suspension.

    Also, keeping in mind that being a '64 model, there is no rear anti roll bar, with the new suspension, there is very little roll. It sits very flat and confident through corners. Can't wait to see what it's like with decent tyres!

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Binky's Avatar
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    According to Graham, the engine is a later 5 bearing model rebuilt by the late and marvellous Bruce Taylor. I'd believe that as the engine is very strong. I was very happy with how I had it tuned when I took her off the road, but over the period of restoration, I had forgotten how good this car is! It starts straight away, and never overruns when I turn it off. Still got the standard radiator, and never overheats. It just ticks over beautifully mile after mile. I will have to have a look at the timing chain and guide soon, as things are a little noisy there, as well as a slow oil leak coming from that region. But otherwise, a very sweet motor.

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! Binky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat200 View Post
    Hey mate, so glad to see the nearly-finished result! Looks great!

    Glad to hear that the springs are to your liking, I'm yet to fit mine, I'm sure RobMac will like the feedback, too! How do you fin the LIP dampers?

    I 'might' have a lead on some slotted wheels......

    I still have my wreck in the yard, no real progress of late.....

    Hope you're well,


    Rob.

    Hey Rob,

    Hope you're well too. I think the LIP dampers are good, but a little too soft for the stronger springs; there is a very slight rebound if you push down on a corner... But still as I said the car is handling ludicrously well, so I can't complain too much... Maybe one day I'll come across a nice set of adjustable Konis or de carbons. Or I might win the lottery and just get some custom gas struts made!

    Shame about your lack of progress, but I trust that means the shed is coming along nicely

    Do you really have a lead on those early wheels, or are you just trying to get me to drive down there so you can take her for a spin?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Binky View Post
    Shame about your lack of progress, but I trust that means the shed is coming along nicely

    Do you really have a lead on those early wheels, or are you just trying to get me to drive down there so you can take her for a spin?
    Shed was practically finished 6 months ago & I was all set to start - 5-speed gearbox , big-bore manifold, falcon weber etc, obtained - , then the makings of a new addition to the family started, so we're extending the house.... And guess which little (insane) bunny is doing most of the work...........?

    The slotted wheels I'm refering to are the late model ones, like on my 1970 model...... Trying to get them shipped to me, but I might pass them on to a worthy recipient?
    Last edited by wombat200; 10th February 2011 at 09:03 PM. Reason: extra info

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    Fellow Frogger! Binky's Avatar
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    Well, Congrats!!!!!

    And congrats on the shed too! That is still going to be one mean 404 when you're through You're giving it a 2 litre engine too, aren't you?

    All the best with the house extension. You know, a mate of mine in the Nissan club (Boo, Hiss!) says it's quite common with their guys & gals to put on a barbecue and a bunch of members come over to lift a spanner. Given you've got a new one on the way, it might be a good cause for the AF fraternity to get together, play with your 404, talk some sh*t and leave you with a little more done to your project.

    I've been thinking for a while that this may be a good thing to start in the AF fraternity... just an idea...

    PS Thanks for the offer, but I'd really like to keep the earlier looking wheels if I can. I think they look better considering they're supposed to be the same colour as the body...

    Here's a pic of what I'm after:



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    Quote Originally Posted by pugnut1 View Post
    Keep up the good work! Does this car have the 3 bearing crankshaft still?
    I've still got the original engine, may use it for spares for my 1618 203 engine (pistons and inlet valves) but would be prepared to return it to its original home, maybe with the later pistons fitted!
    It had a bad case of valve seat recession from being run without Valvemaster/Flash Lube and I took the easy way out for the owner and fitted a good XC6 that I had.
    I serviced the car for a few years but it was slowly going down hill in the body, it started off as a very low km well kept car from Ballarat.
    Good to see it is now being cared for properly.
    Graham

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    Quote Originally Posted by Binky View Post
    Obviously she ain't finished yet, but she's finished enough to be registered now. I'm still waiting on a few bits from overseas, and I'll be looking to my fellow froggers for a spare set of wheels, and a pair of sill panels.

    The bumpers and upholstery will have to wait until I have the money (probably at least a year).

    Once I have sill panels and wheels, I'll be keeping one set of wheels standard, and getting one set widened, then going back to my friend and getting them all painted up nicely.

    There's still plenty to do, but it's all stuff I can do on the move. So next on the menu is to change front wheel bearings and front end bushes. I've just put a set of LIP dampers in the front and installed brand new "Robmac" spec springs all 'round. Thanks to Rob for doing all the research, and thanks to Wombat200 (a different Rob) for organising a set of the springs for me when he got his made.

    First impressions with the new suspension is that the car has gone from handling very well to handling ludicrously well. I lost a subaru liberty on a windy bit of road the other day (downhill, of course!) and I hadn't got to the limits of traction yet. Sign saying recommended speed 55km/h? No worries, I'll just gently pull her around at 100!! Sure the ride is a little firmer, but it's still more cruisy than stiff modern suspension.

    Also, keeping in mind that being a '64 model, there is no rear anti roll bar, with the new suspension, there is very little roll. It sits very flat and confident through corners. Can't wait to see what it's like with decent tyres!
    I've got some 404 bushes available, mainly heaps of inner control arm but a few others as well.
    Graham

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    I've still got the original engine, may use it for spares for my 1618 203 engine (pistons and inlet valves) but would be prepared to return it to its original home, maybe with the later pistons fitted!
    It had a bad case of valve seat recession from being run without Valvemaster/Flash Lube and I took the easy way out for the owner and fitted a good XC6 that I had.
    I serviced the car for a few years but it was slowly going down hill in the body, it started off as a very low km well kept car from Ballarat.
    Good to see it is now being cared for properly.
    Graham
    Thanks Graham for supplying even more info! I had no idea it had lived in Ballarat - I love that city

    Thanks for the offer of the engine, but I already have more engines than I know what to do with. I'm glad to hear that the engine is still living on in some form, and I hope it proves useful for your 1618 203. Man, that would be wild! I still think my dad's 203 is one of the best handling cars I've ever driven.

    Did you know just how good that engine was?! It doesn't even seem to have ANY corrosion in the head!

    Do you know where the engine came from? I ask because my Dad drove a 404 for years, and gave it to my brother when he got his licence. My Brother wrote it off and our friend Alan Banks took the wreck and forwarded the engine to Bruce Taylor.

    ...Just wondering if there may be some poetic resolution afoot?

    It's also nice to know that flashlube DOES make a difference, and that I'm not just wasting money...





    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    I've got some 404 bushes available, mainly heaps of inner control arm but a few others as well.
    Graham
    Thanks Graham, I think I've got a full set, but If I'm short, you'll be the first to know

  12. #12
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    Binky, the plan is to build a 2lt engine that is otherwise similar in concept to RobMac's 1800cc engine he described in a pre-crash engine rebuild thread - I don't know if that thread was rescued, but it's a great source of info..... Indeed, it's the inspiration for my engine.

    I have the 2 litre engine with aircon brackets, should I go that way...... Square-port head & manifold, wade 112 cam, weber carb, big-bore exhaust manifold, will have the 5spd gearbox, too...... So, hopefully she'll go OK....... I'm always on the lookout for extra bits, but really don't need much more to start - just the time .

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    Nice job you are doing!

  14. #14
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    Default A very belated update.

    Hey all. Long time, no post. I've been very busy and done lots to Binky over the summer, so will try to bring you all up to date over the next few days.

    I finally got the wheels widened by Neway wheels in west heidelberg. They did a fantastic job and I was pleasantly surprised at the price. They took one wheel, cut the centre out and inserted it in a new 6 x 15" rim, and told me to take it home and check for fitting front and rear. The issue with a 404 is limited outward clearance at the back due to wheel arches, and limited inward movement due to tie-rod ends at the front. We finally settled on somewhere between 5 - 10mm (can't quite remember now) inwards, and the rest pushing outwards. If we'd only pushed outwards, the rims would have had to be reversed to put the deeper dish facing outward, but with that little movement inwards, there was just enough meat to put the rims on the right way around. I'm glad of that, as I think it looks a bit odd when they are flipped around... Final price was $580- which is $120- per wheel. I kept the spare at the standard width for the early style upright wheel well in the boot. A lot cheaper than buying a set of mags!

    I got my friend to paint the wheels the same colour as the car and due to lack of money, had stuckey tyres put on a set of 185s that I had kicking around, rather than forking out for a new set. The bloke at Stuckey (geoff or george?) took great care and rather than damage the new paint with weights on the outside edge, used those adhesive weights for alloys on the inside. I'll be going back there again!

    I was a little concerned that the steering may be too heavy, but whilst a little heavier, it is still well within reasonable limits and all driving but parking can be performed with moderate to light pressure of just one hand (but both hands on the wheel!). As might be predicted, handling is substantially improved, despite being very good to start with. More on that when I have time to talk about interior modifications

    What I wasn't prepared for was the vast improvement in braking. Previously I had thought that the brakes were okay, I could see why people upgraded to the disk brake front end, but I din't know if it was really worth the effort. Well wider wheels is definitely worth it! Even with unassisted drums, this thing stops like a really good stoppy thing! Totally unexpected, totally loving it

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    how long has he had the 203 and do you know where he got it from ?
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    Great to hear, Binky!! Sounds like you're making great progress...... I wish I could say the same....

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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo View Post


    how long has he had the 203 and do you know where he got it from ?
    Well, I remember playing with model aeroplane engines whilst my grandfather rubbed it back to bare metal by hand, so we've gotta be talking around late 1980's...

    It was bought from a family friend, Richard Mason who lived in Greensborough at the time. It had around 38,000 original miles on it and came with a number plate celebrating 150 years of Victoria (remember that?) which it still sports. Reg number is 203 C.

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    Thanks Rob. Yes, slowly, slowly the progress progresses...

    Some of you may recall that I was unhappy with the exhaust system. I still had the original coffee tin style manifold with a single pipe which - due to seemingly unrelated exhaust repairs - became smaller in diameter at each join. The resulting restriction was very, well... restrictive...

    Anyway, I got a decent manifold, and took it to a friend (along with my wheels prior to painting) and got him to sand blast it. He then gave it a pretty ceramic coating:




    Despite the purdiness, the real motivation behind ceramic coating is to improve thermal properties, keeping the heat inside the exhaust system, thus improving pulse velocity/flow and reducing engine bay temperatures. Considering the difficulties in playing with extractors on these cars, it seemed like a reasonable alternative, especially as I then had a custom exhaust made. I know some of you here are playing with four into one extractors for 404s, which is great for top end performance, but as this is a daily driver, I thought I'd go a little more moderate and run two extended secondaries from the manifold flange. Theoretically, this should provide less top end power, but a more responsive mid range:



    The remainder of the system is 2" diameter, and there is just one semi straight through muffler at the back.

    It's hard to describe the effects without addressing the carburettor mods I've done which will have to wait, but suffice to say that the engine no longer overheats, there are definitely more onions, and it sounds fantastic!

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    This is all very wonderful stuff Binky. You are a bit of a dark horse with all this sophisticated stuff that you've been doing.
    I'm loving every minute.
    I will be very interested in your exhaust/carb ideas as I think that is the most important thing I'll be able to do to my cars. 203 exhausts are sooooo restricted.
    I was contemplating one of those big 1600 404ish engines for my next 203 but it turns out I'm just another ****** who can't afford all the necessary mods. O well it was nice to dream for awhile.

    Also loved the glance of your dad's car. Any chance of a few more shots of that. Looks like a supreme finish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    This is all very wonderful stuff Binky. You are a bit of a dark horse with all this sophisticated stuff that you've been doing.
    I'm loving every minute.
    I will be very interested in your exhaust/carb ideas as I think that is the most important thing I'll be able to do to my cars. 203 exhausts are sooooo restricted.
    I was contemplating one of those big 1600 404ish engines for my next 203 but it turns out I'm just another ****** who can't afford all the necessary mods. O well it was nice to dream for awhile.

    Also loved the glance of your dad's car. Any chance of a few more shots of that. Looks like a supreme finish.
    Did you get the timing right Dan? I'm still waiting for your call re the tool.
    Graham

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    Quote Originally Posted by Binky View Post
    Thanks Rob. Yes, slowly, slowly the progress progresses...

    Some of you may recall that I was unhappy with the exhaust system. I still had the original coffee tin style manifold with a single pipe which - due to seemingly unrelated exhaust repairs - became smaller in diameter at each join. The resulting restriction was very, well... restrictive...

    Anyway, I got a decent manifold, and took it to a friend (along with my wheels prior to painting) and got him to sand blast it. He then gave it a pretty ceramic coating:




    Despite the purdiness, the real motivation behind ceramic coating is to improve thermal properties, keeping the heat inside the exhaust system, thus improving pulse velocity/flow and reducing engine bay temperatures. Considering the difficulties in playing with extractors on these cars, it seemed like a reasonable alternative, especially as I then had a custom exhaust made. I know some of you here are playing with four into one extractors for 404s, which is great for top end performance, but as this is a daily driver, I thought I'd go a little more moderate and run two extended secondaries from the manifold flange. Theoretically, this should provide less top end power, but a more responsive mid range:



    The remainder of the system is 2" diameter, and there is just one semi straight through muffler at the back.

    It's hard to describe the effects without addressing the carburettor mods I've done which will have to wait, but suffice to say that the engine no longer overheats, there are definitely more onions, and it sounds fantastic!
    Amazing how good the buttress panels stay on these early models.
    If that is the same exhaust that it had when I did work on it then I agree, I fitted a late model engine to it and it went nowhwere near as well as it did in the donor car it came from.
    Graham
    Last edited by GRAHAM WALLIS; 15th March 2012 at 09:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Did you get the timing right Dan? I'm still waiting for your call re the tool.
    Graham
    Graham I did email you and left a few phone messages but you must have been away at the time.
    Anyway I checked and triple checked the timing and it was spot on from every angle. I had the timing cover off and so on. But it was still running a bit hot afterwards. I have had a lot of trouble but Binky's thread is not the place to discuss it.
    I'll revive my original resto thread and tell you all about it.
    Cheers.

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