Project R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!
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Thread: Project R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Default Project R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!

    I met this car quite some years ago, as part of a collection, of which the "early Blue A110" was part of. It sat for a few years with not getting much mileage on it, and suddenly it comes out the woodwork. And a few days later I was told it had been sold, and my friend 2 doors down was trying to get the seat right so this big ex-surfer could fit in it. Well Colin got the seat set well enough so the new owner actually fitted in the A110 very comfortably.

    A few weeks later I hear the "earlier Blue A110" pitch up, and a short while later drive out, and actually working well. And about half an hour later the "early Blue A110" comes back, really being driven. Oohhh it sounds so nice. I seem to have an affinity to the sound (????). The episode over I get on with my work. Suddenly this large guy comes storming into my workshop and demands that I do to his A110, what I did to the "early Blue A110". ?????

    Then I realised Steve had taken it for a ride and was somewhat impress with the running of the R5 A/G motor in the back. Which probably needed a tune and clean fuel.

    And that is where the story starts.

    The Sows ear I was to turn into a Silk Purse !!!!!

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    Project R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!-dscn0135.jpg

    So I promptly told Steve I could help but needed to know what he wanted to put in the back of his A110. And he told me the same as what was in the other car, a R5 A/G 1400. So I showed him a motor under my shelves.

    Ray
    Ray geckoeng

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! nauli's Avatar
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    Haha...just get on with it!!!

    PS...not exactly "ex-surfer" yet...just hasn't surfed for a year or two while concentrating more on windsurfing....
    1969 Alpine A110
    2016 Ford Focus RS
    2012 Nissan Pathfinder (these have a Renault engine)

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    EX-Surfer,

    Well yesterday got put on another thread, so I should keep this one updated.

    "As of lunch time your head came out and made all the water pump block channel. All that is needed is to glue and screw and the head mods have started." yesterday.

    Project R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!-20180717_145824.jpgProject R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!-20180717_145900.jpgProject R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!-20180717_160249.jpg

    Excuse the quality of pictures, my phone can't do close ups. This is just the making of the block to be able to change water pump end on the head, back to the same as R8/R10.

    Today was the Glueing and Screwing. The screws were cut to length to suit the treads in the head (M4). All mating surfaces were sanded and cleaned with acetone. I used Devcon metal bond. With the aluminium filling.

    Project R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!-dscn0237.jpgProject R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!-dscn0238.jpgProject R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!-dscn0239.jpgProject R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!-dscn0240.jpgProject R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!-dscn0241.jpg

    All that is needed is to let the Devcon cure, and tomorrow I will sand and file the surface flush with the end of the head. And to grind this form out of the other end of the head.

    Ray
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    Ray geckoeng

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    Fellow Frogger! nauli's Avatar
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    Nice work EX-Ascari man!
    1969 Alpine A110
    2016 Ford Focus RS
    2012 Nissan Pathfinder (these have a Renault engine)

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    Fellow Frogger! nauli's Avatar
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    And as an aside, when we get the R5 A engine into the A110, the 1300 V85 currently in it will be up for sale along with the single Weber 40 DCOE and manifold and extractors...they could be separated if required. If anyone is interested, just send me a PM and we can discuss further....
    1969 Alpine A110
    2016 Ford Focus RS
    2012 Nissan Pathfinder (these have a Renault engine)

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Yes I am an Ex-Ascari man !!!!

    Today's tail :
    The glue was well cured this morning, so first job was get the head mods completed. First part was togently sand the surface just to remove the excess ali on the block. Then it was filed till flush with the face and then polished.

    The next section is turn the head around and cut out the water duct at the original water pump end. Out comes the die grinder and make one hell of a mess for just a short while and it is done.

    Project R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!-dscn0245.jpgProject R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!-dscn0246.jpgProject R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!-dscn0242.jpgProject R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!-dscn0243.jpgProject R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!-dscn0244.jpg

    Now to more important work on the engine block.

    Ray
    Ray geckoeng

    Think Old, But Run Modern !!

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! nauli's Avatar
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    Perfect!! I'll drop by this arvo and inspect (and mark) your work!
    I'll get Shoji to give me some tips on floor sweeping....
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    1969 Alpine A110
    2016 Ford Focus RS
    2012 Nissan Pathfinder (these have a Renault engine)

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    On water pumps: have you considered an EWP? I'm persuaded of their charms & have one in my R5 A/G powered 4CVG.

    cheers! Peter

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    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Peter I have never had trouble with Renault water pumps.
    See no need to change to something not needed.

    Even front radiators, Sierra and 807 they always flow good water and keep cool. West Australian summer or the heart of Africa. So why change something when it is doing a proper job ???

    Ray
    Ray geckoeng

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    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Internet points?

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
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    Quote Originally Posted by geckoeng View Post
    Peter I have never had trouble with Renault water pumps.
    See no need to change to something not needed.

    Even front radiators, Sierra and 807 they always flow good water and keep cool. West Australian summer or the heart of Africa. So why change something when it is doing a proper job ???

    Ray
    EWP operates intermittently until operating temperature is attained; thus: faster & more engine-wear friendly warm-up.
    EWP continue to operate for a while after switch-off; thus: helps eliminate hot-spots.
    EWP flows always at the ideal speed for heat transfer in radiator (engine driven pump is too fast a flow at speed & too slow a flow in traffic); thus: a greater margin of error if one has a partially blocked radiator.
    EWP avoids a minor parasitic power loss driving the normal water pump.

    cheers! Peter

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    Agree with the points you raise 4cvg. I find that compared to an EWP the 2.1 Litre 16TS engine takes a longer than ideal time to warm up evenly through the whole engine and the heat soak at the end of a race is hard to dissipate. If the regulations permitted in historic racing I would fit an EWP in an instant. I don't believe there would be an advantage in cooling during a race although it would save a little Hp loss.

    The EWP on the 1600 R8G is great on the road in winter and after a hard run on the track in summer it is nice to have it cycle water through the engine to reduce hot spots while it cycles down before the next run. There is also a big advantage in the installation of a 16TS in an R8 or R10 because you don't have a mechanical pump in a difficult location under the rear window against the fuel tank.

    The Alconi is fine in hot weather but man is it takes a long time to warm up in winter with a mechanical pump and efficient cooling system when its minus 5 early morning, like the Sydney French car day last weekend!

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    Goodness; how did you manage 2.1 litres?

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    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Because Renault saw fit to chop the rear engine frame mounts off the back of the R5 A/G block, I make new steel mounts to replace the cut off bits. I have seen similar on AF in the past, but this is my version, similar to one I did for a friend in the UK when putting a R5 A/G in his R8.

    Getting the parts connected to the block requires some drilling and some drilling and tapping. The angled mount on the left hand side I drill through the block, as it is thin here, and I don't feel M8 threads will take the strain on the engine. I will finish it off with "crimplock" nuts fitted inside the block, and epoxy resinned in place. This also means it is sealed from oil leaks.

    Once the new tabs are mounted in a satisfactory position. It is then easy to lay out where the threaded bolt holes should go and some more drilling and tapping.

    Project R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!-dscn0248.jpgProject R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!-dscn0249.jpgProject R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!-dscn0251.jpgProject R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!-dscn0253.jpgProject R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!-dscn0254.jpgProject R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!-dscn0255.jpgProject R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!-dscn0256.jpg

    The block can now be used with standard rear cross member, and engine mounts.

    Ray
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    Yes, we had to play similar silly buggers getting the mounts for the engine sorted. If only Renault had left things alone.

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    Yes, we had to play similar silly buggers getting the mounts for the engine sorted. If only Renault had left things alone.
    Indeed. No doubt there was a reason they deleted the lugs... They did a lot in the development and re-use of those Ventoux and Sierra engine blocks over the years.

    Having Ray in Perth leads to terrible temptations..... He's making some customers/clients/friends very happy.

    I too wonder about 2.1 litres from a 16TS block. No doubt there's an answer... I'd heard of 1600-1800 I reckon, using Fiat pistons, but 2.1 litres? Ah well, keep an eye on the posts.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bustamif View Post
    Agree with the points you raise 4cvg. I find that compared to an EWP the 2.1 Litre 16TS engine takes a longer than ideal time to warm up evenly through the whole engine and the heat soak at the end of a race is hard to dissipate. If the regulations permitted in historic racing I would fit an EWP in an instant. I don't believe there would be an advantage in cooling during a race although it would save a little Hp loss.

    The EWP on the 1600 R8G is great on the road in winter and after a hard run on the track in summer it is nice to have it cycle water through the engine to reduce hot spots while it cycles down before the next run. There is also a big advantage in the installation of a 16TS in an R8 or R10 because you don't have a mechanical pump in a difficult location under the rear window against the fuel tank.

    The Alconi is fine in hot weather but man is it takes a long time to warm up in winter with a mechanical pump and efficient cooling system when its minus 5 early morning, like the Sydney French car day last weekend!
    What thermostat do you use in winter? I think I have an 80 degrees + thermostat in the R8 and it takes a while to come to temperature ON THE GAUGE, but the sensor is downstream from the thermostat, so "sees" no warming up until the thermostat opens. If I use the demister airflow temperature, the hand test, it warms up fairly fast, but nothing on the gauge. Just a thought....
    JohnW

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    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

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    Rather than go too far off topic here, you should take a look at the discussion about engine warming in winter over on the thread My R12 POS Arrived.
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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    The reason for removing the engine mount lugs off the "back of the block" in the R5 (Mk 1), is the very close proximity to the cloistered fire wall in this region. Designed very similar to a R16 in this area.

    Ray
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    Quote Originally Posted by geckoeng View Post
    The reason for removing the engine mount lugs off the "back of the block" in the R5 (Mk 1), is the very close proximity to the cloistered fire wall in this region. Designed very similar to a R16 in this area.

    Ray
    Yes, I know but surely the sods realised that people would want to shove these in RERs & could have had the decency to widen the relevant bodywork such that the mounting lugs remained.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bustamif View Post
    Agree with the points you raise 4cvg. I find that compared to an EWP the 2.1 Litre 16TS engine takes a longer than ideal time to warm up evenly through the whole engine and the heat soak at the end of a race is hard to dissipate. If the regulations permitted in historic racing I would fit an EWP in an instant. I don't believe there would be an advantage in cooling during a race although it would save a little Hp loss.

    The EWP on the 1600 R8G is great on the road in winter and after a hard run on the track in summer it is nice to have it cycle water through the engine to reduce hot spots while it cycles down before the next run. There is also a big advantage in the installation of a 16TS in an R8 or R10 because you don't have a mechanical pump in a difficult location under the rear window against the fuel tank.

    The Alconi is fine in hot weather but man is it takes a long time to warm up in winter with a mechanical pump and efficient cooling system when its minus 5 early morning, like the Sydney French car day last weekend!
    Am I the only one who thinks bustamif's 2l R16 build deserves it's own thread?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 21571 View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks bustamif's 2l R16 build deserves it's own thread?
    I'd settle for a response to my request :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    Goodness; how did you manage 2.1 litres?
    I did not respond because this is a thread about Rays project and I did not want to hijack it, anyway I was more interested in the mods he made to the head in order to improve the water flow.

    FYI, I used the really big bore Meca liners with custom pistons, slightly offset bore, all pistons matched to individual cylinders, machined through the side of the block then welded it up to stop oil and water leaking out. Easy, it does three race seasons between scheduled minor rebuilds using only 7500 rpm.

    In regard to the R5 Alpine motor, I have stopped using Devcon and switched to Belzona 1111 for head mods. Marginally better in expansion compatibility for Ally heads.

    Cheers,
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    Interessant! Merci pour l'information.

    I note in passing that thread high-jacking is an A-F art-form & can also be construed as merely a conversation diverting briefly in line with the interests of the participants. The original thrust of the thread is easy to re-instate.

    cheers! Peter

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    You guys by all sorts of "fancy" stuff and yet you do not see what is available.

    Project R5 Alpine Motor for a A110 !!!-20180728_133040.jpg

    This is a bypass water pump off off a Opel (what you call a Holden), and is to flow water back through the radiator with the fan on to remove heat sink when switched off. From about '92, the R19 had the same system for the 1.7 overhead cam motor. Far better than switching on and off the water pump.

    Ray
    Ray geckoeng

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