Renault 1942 Juvaquatre Tourer
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Renault 1942 Juvaquatre Tourer

    Hi All,

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    My wife and I are starting on the journey of getting an old family member up and running again. This 1942 (or 1940) Renault Tourer, we think a Juvaquatre, but I think in Australia it was know as a Renault 8 Deluxe Tourer.

    We are having issues trying to find much information on it, if you have any please let us know. The information we were told by a late family member, was that it was a prototype sent to Australia to see if there was a market for it and the only one he knew running and complete, when it was running.
    It has not run for the last 10+years, but is complete and original.

    I have included a couple of photos and as I get more time to work on it, I will add more.

    Thanks
    Peter

    Renault 1942 Juvaquatre Tourer-3c8d011e-b87c-481b-be51-d7b41dfcc1dd.jpgRenault 1942 Juvaquatre Tourer-48ffeac5-28fe-45c0-9a14-0a92aacc5eef.jpg
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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Welcome!! That's exciting news.

    You can wait for a reply from Sunroof I'd suggest!

    There's quite a lot of information out there in general and the odd Juvaquatre in Oz, so hopefully you'll make the contacts you need.

    Best wishes with the restoration.
    JohnW

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    Thank you for the welcome JohnW


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    Unlikely to be 1942, or 1940 for that matter given the occupation of France by a certain Austrian with a predilection for toothbrush mustaches. This style was beloved of Australian body builders both pre and immediate post war. I would place a small bet on someone like Ruskins who put similar offerings on a range of small English and continental cars. Perhaps the chassis was exported to Australia in 1939 and sold here in 1940 - at which time it probably went straight up onto blocks due to petrol rationing.

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    Hi Commerciale,
    I had the same thought, when I was first told the story, but there was cars actually brought in by Renault at that time. Albeit a very small number, 10 in total if I am remembering correctly.
    The car was definitely built by Renault directly, all numbers check out ( Dimond plate, engine, body number), as far as I can tell, but I’m happy to be proven wrong and will happily admit it if I am. The reason I say 1942 is, I have the original bill of sale.


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    Here are some more photos I took today.
    Renault 1942 Juvaquatre Tourer-a8241138-548c-4d7e-a486-c02c50ecb865.jpgRenault 1942 Juvaquatre Tourer-8d851594-d402-46ff-a1e9-e153f1c9281d.jpgRenault 1942 Juvaquatre Tourer-377fee12-474b-4f67-81f1-3d417022944b.jpgRenault 1942 Juvaquatre Tourer-69694625-e366-4acf-b7e0-83993c6edb3e.jpgRenault 1942 Juvaquatre Tourer-e28b97bb-32ba-4416-9342-b465ea756720.jpg
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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby1942 View Post
    Hi Commerciale,
    I had the same thought, when I was first told the story, but there was cars actually brought in by Renault at that time. Albeit a very small number, 10 in total if I am remembering correctly. The car was definitely built by Renault directly, all numbers check out ( Dimond plate, engine, body number), as far as I can tell, but I’m happy to be proven wrong and will happily admit it if I am. The reason I say 1942 is, I have the original bill of sale. Sent from my iPhone using aussiefrogs
    Interesting. It was a confusing time regarding cars etc. I can't imagine any exports from France after the German invasion of Belgium started (10 May 1940) and perhaps they stopped rather earlier, but who knows. In Oz, there were restrictions starting on all sorts of things, like buying petrol apart from anything else, so it could easily have been sold years after it was manufactured.

    What's really good is that you have the car, complete and have the documents. Great bit of automotive history.

    I'll enquire with friends in France.

    Cheers
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    JohnW

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby1942 View Post
    Here are some more photos I took today.
    Looks like a timewarp car. Is that the original paint?

    Everyone has their opinions, but for me this looks like a car that doesn't need "restoring" but rather just returning to usable condition, keeping it as original as possible. Within our little circle, it is quite a historic vehicle.

    Are you linked to the Renault Car Club of Australia?

    Cheers
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    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    Citroën CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

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    JohnW,
    It is the original paint, just very dirty (20 odd years of not being washed).

    Yes, the plan is to keep it as original as possible and only do what is necessary. We like all the scars, it shows character.

    My wife and I just joined the club this week, great group of people.


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    Absolutely agree. Would be a crime to "restore". 2 Pack wasn't invented in 1940

    This is a very nice "time capsule", I do hope that you can get the information needed to do it properly

    Important not to make any assumptions about what Adolf's activities may have meant for car imports/exports, general trade etc. Adolf and his minions controlled Paris and much of northern France under direct control, Vichy France was nominally self-governing (under Pétain ) so may have been treated as a separate country by Australia, so some imports may have continued. This needs research - don't know the answer to this one

    The more one looks at history, the more interesting it looks

    Best Wishes

    Andrew

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Looks like a timewarp car. Is that the original paint?

    Everyone has their opinions, but for me this looks like a car that doesn't need "restoring" but rather just returning to usable condition, keeping it as original as possible. Within our little circle, it is quite a historic vehicle.

    Are you linked to the Renault Car Club of Australia?

    Cheers
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    I do appreciate these cars. nice to see an original rise from the dust!
    (still think the front reminds me of a spider and its eyes)
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    It is a Renault 9 Sports Tourer, introduced in 1939, through to 1941 (and obviously sold through later, when the date of registration was the "age" of the car).

    A unique Australian designed and built vehicle based on the BFD1 Juvaquatre.
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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby1942 View Post
    JohnW,
    It is the original paint, just very dirty (20 odd years of not being washed). Yes, the plan is to keep it as original as possible and only do what is necessary. We like all the scars, it shows character. My wife and I just joined the club this week, great group of people. Sent from my iPhone using aussiefrogs
    That's great to hear. Yes, they are a great group and they overlap a bit with our Renault 4CV Register membership, so you are already well linked across the country.

    Hope to see it one day, although I doubt it'll come to Perth in the near future!
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    JohnW

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    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    Citroën CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    It is a Renault 9 Sports Tourer, introduced in 1939, through to 1941 (and obviously sold through later, when the date of registration was the "age" of the car). A unique Australian designed and built vehicle based on the BFD1 Juvaquatre.
    Thanks Simon. Do you mean it came as a chassis and had an Oz-body fitted?

    Cheers
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    JohnW

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    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    It is a Renault 9 Sports Tourer, introduced in 1939, through to 1941 (and obviously sold through later, when the date of registration was the "age" of the car).

    A unique Australian designed and built vehicle based on the BFD1 Juvaquatre.
    My point exactly. The chassis and front panels were probably shipped from France some time before early 1940. The body was built in Australia to avoid the tariff on motor bodies which existed at the time - and had been in place since 1902. Again, I would suspect Ruskins as the culprit given their similar efforts on Singer and Morris chassis.
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    Renaults are not my field but I have researched this period of French-Australian relations. After the lifting of the Ottawa tariffs at the end of 1938 European imports revived. I recall advertisements for Renaults in 1939 by Pound Motors in Melbourne and Ira Berk in Sydney releasing a locally bodied Renault in 1940. Trade with France did indeed continue into 1940 and there was a shipment of Peugeot motorbikes reached Melbourne as late as May 1940. France was keen to continue receiving wool from Australia and the Germans were equally grateful for the 40,000 tons of Australian wool they found stockpiled in France. Regent motors had a shipment of German DKW cars arrive in Melbourne after the outbreak of war and the wharfies wouldn't unload them. SMMT registration figures show 189 new Renaults sold in Australia 1941 to 1945. The Commonwealth enacted a law forbidding dealings with Vichy France in late 1940. We only had dealings with New Caledonia which we convinced not to support Vichy by sending a cruiser. Australia supplied New Caledonia with wine during the war but no motor cars arrived in return.
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    Wow, thank you all for all the extra information, it is greatly appreciated.


    More info and photos-

    Dimond plate shows body type as BFJ1 and a search on that came up with this site http://www.site.jrhp.fr/lesjuvadanslemonde.htm and they claim the following “In 1939, a special range of right-hand drive 53 coach were built in the Billancourt factory.
    This range specially made from the Australian market was the BFJ1 type.” So I guess that would make her built in 1939, maybe? It all depends on how you look at it. Or if we go by the theory that her was partly built and shipped to oz and then completed/modified/created to a tourer for the Australian market, which is very possible, then she would be a 1942.

    I also found this.
    Renault 1942 Juvaquatre Tourer-img_1530998428.555125.jpg

    Which shows a review of a Renault 8 De luxe Sports Tourer from the South Australian Motor dated January 15, 1940. The specifications and image are by what I can tell identical to what we have.

    Renault 1942 Juvaquatre Tourer-img_1530998847.955419.jpg

    Renault 1942 Juvaquatre Tourer-img_1530999098.250832.jpg

    Renault 1942 Juvaquatre Tourer-img_1530999116.354546.jpg


    She got some new tyres on Friday, so much easier to move around now.
    Renault 1942 Juvaquatre Tourer-img_1530999414.297275.jpg

    It would be great to know exactly when, where and how it was built, but either way, we are happy to bring her back to life and keep her in the family.

    I will continue to post photos as I go, but let me know if there is anything specific you would like a photo of.


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    Gorgeous!! I like your plans to keep it as it is.
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    Is there a much of a difference between a 8 BFJ1 De Luxe Sports Tourer and a 9 BFD1 Sports Tourer
    John
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    Quote Originally Posted by 63-1092 View Post
    Is there a much of a difference between a 8 BFJ1 De Luxe Sports Tourer and a 9 BFD1 Sports Tourer
    This what I was able to find, about the BFD1.
    http://www.site.jrhp.fr/renaulteight/index.htm#english

    “The 1938 Renault Eight belongs to the BFD1 Limited 2 doors range. An exclusive range for the British market with its right-hand drive and cable breaks, it is an exact copy of the French AEB2 coach.
    1253 models were produced from September 1938 until May 1939. 1205 belonging to the high luxury range with only 48 belonging to the normal luxury range.

    Apart from the location of the steering wheel, the differences between the British model and the AEB2 coach are :

    • Ligths on the front fins
    • No monogram on the front bumper
    • Bi-color shade of the motor
    • Firestone pneumatics
    • A « Renault 8 » monogram on the radiator grille.
    • Simili seats.
    • The position of the battery.
    • A Different exhaust pipe due to the position of the steering column.
    • The handle of the hood has an inscription.”


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    It came with cable breaks? Doesn’t sound good.
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    Typical Froggy wiring, the shorts come pre-installed

    Andrew

    Quote Originally Posted by sfrawley View Post
    It came with cable breaks? Doesn’t sound good.
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    Hello Duncan. What a great project to have. In November last year while travelling through Braidwood on a car rally, I came across a running and registered similar model ( I didn't know the intricacies of its pedigree till I looked at this page) but the owner may be able to help you. I believe it is owned by Gary and Jane Kendall who run a business procuring French provincial artefacts for decorating , and also organise several walking tours in France each year, so they are Francophiles with a k en interest in things historical of the first degree. They are based in Braidwood NSW and their business Is called Longbarn , and their historic property where they operate the business is known as Tidmarsh. I chatted with them briefly while I was there, but as I didn't know a lot about those early Renaults I didn't get into the details of the car. Their phone numbers is 0248422784
    cheers
    Wheelnut
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Watkins View Post
    Typical Froggy wiring, the shorts come pre-installed Andrew
    My thoughts exactly! Note the hubcaps are same style as early 4CV (spider wheel) and the door handles, inside and outside, look much the same as 4CV too.

    The 4CVs have Lockheed brakes, and they are the only things on a rear-engined Renault with imperial threads. Somewhere there is an early 4CV advertisement that says the cars have "Lockheed hydraulic brakes". I've surmised no-one in France was making hydraulic brakes to a Euro specification in the 1940s, but my 1964 R8 also has imperial threaded brake hoses. I'm not a bit surprised this car has cable brakes. Hopefully without breaks.

    Great car and the owners clearly appreciate that. It'd be interesting to do a comparison between it and the English tourers of the time (Series E Morris, Fraud Anglia and, I think, a Hillman pre-Minx come to mind. Maybe an Austin pre-A40 too.) it would probably take quite runny custard to release the skin for any of them.
    JohnW

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    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    Citroën CX Pallas 1980

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelnut View Post
    Hello Duncan. What a great project to have. In November last year while travelling through Braidwood on a car rally, I came across a running and registered similar model ( I didn't know the intricacies of its pedigree till I looked at this page) but the owner may be able to help you. I believe it is owned by Gary and Jane Kendall who run a business procuring French provincial artefacts for decorating , and also organise several walking tours in France each year, so they are Francophiles with a k en interest in things historical of the first degree. They are based in Braidwood NSW and their business Is called Longbarn , and their historic property where they operate the business is known as Tidmarsh. I chatted with them briefly while I was there, but as I didn't know a lot about those early Renaults I didn't get into the details of the car. Their phone numbers is 0248422784
    cheers
    Wheelnut
    Thank you Wheelnut, that is awesome information, I will definitely get in touch.


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