1976 R16TS - Kermit gets a refresh
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Thread: 1976 R16TS - Kermit gets a refresh

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    Default 1976 R16TS - Kermit gets a refresh

    I thought I should put some info on here for y'all to look at, laugh at, comment on and generally enjoy my efforts to get my avocado 16TS (Kermit) back into ship shape and roadworthy enough to provide me with some vehicular entertainment over coming years.

    First some history - I found Kermit via Aussie Frogs and was surprised to see he was only about 180 Klms away in Inverell NSW. Inspection revealed no rust but a lot of neglect. 16 or so years sitting in a shed in Inverell had taken a bit of a toll but no rust was evident and although a blown head gasket was suspected the motor ran. Sort of. So onto a truck and over to Narrabri he went. Some pics at the time are here...

    Renault 16 TS for sale

    After a major clean up effort (including removal of the inevitable dead rat in the engine bay) he didn't look too bad. A thorough bleed of the cooling system showed it was well down on fluid and about half air. A new radiator cap also needed as the old one was in terrible shape. Hence the initial suspicion of head gasket issues. New plugs and points and a bit of basic carby fiddling and it ran OK. Just. Some more pics from after a bit of elbow grease..

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    1976 R16TS - Kermit gets a refresh-img_1126.jpg 1976 R16TS - Kermit gets a refresh-img_1120.jpg 1976 R16TS - Kermit gets a refresh-img_1113.jpg 1976 R16TS - Kermit gets a refresh-coolant-bleed.jpg

    1976 R16TS - Kermit gets a refresh-img_1116.jpg 1976 R16TS - Kermit gets a refresh-img_1121.jpg 1976 R16TS - Kermit gets a refresh-img_1256.jpg
    I took the back wheel and drum off and realised the brakes were far too gone for my basic skills so into town to Narrabri Brake & Clutch for an overhaul in that area. New wheel cylinders (thanks again Mike) and a few other more minor parts and the brakes are as good as new.

    More updates soon.
    Cheers, Peter J
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    Quote Originally Posted by CXVingtCinq View Post
    I thought I should put some info on here for y'all to look at, laugh at, comment on and generally enjoy my efforts to get my avocado 16TS (Kermit) back into ship shape and roadworthy enough to provide me with some vehicular entertainment over coming years.

    First some history - I found Kermit via Aussie Frogs and was surprised to see he was only about 180 Klms away in Inverell NSW. Inspection revealed no rust but a lot of neglect. 16 or so years sitting in a shed in Inverell had taken a bit of a toll but no rust was evident and although a blown head gasket was suspected the motor ran. Sort of. So onto a truck and over to Narrabri he went. Some pics at the time are here...

    Renault 16 TS for sale

    After a major clean up effort (including removal of the inevitable dead rat in the engine bay) he didn't look too bad. A thorough bleed of the cooling system showed it was well down on fluid and about half air. A new radiator cap also needed as the old one was in terrible shape. Hence the initial suspicion of head gasket issues. New plugs and points and a bit of basic carby fiddling and it ran OK. Just. Some more pics from after a bit of elbow grease..

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    I took the back wheel and drum off and realised the brakes were far too gone for my basic skills so into town to Narrabri Brake & Clutch for an overhaul in that area. New wheel cylinders (thanks again Mike) and a few other more minor parts and the brakes are as good as new.

    More updates soon.
    Hello Peter. I see that you have the dreaded 'automatic' rear brake adjusting system. If your brake people get the handbrake to work please ask them how they did it and let me know! After much effort I have now got mine to work on up to a 5 degree slope.
    Citroen DS21 Pallas 1970 Renault 16TS 1976 Renault 5TS 1981

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    So, other improvements after the brakes were done have been - replacement of rear shockies, a new fuel pump (eBay) and filter, NOS taillight glasses and front indicator/parker glasses and some correct plug lead rubber grommets/seals at the rocker cover (thanks RenaultMark).

    1976 R16TS - Kermit gets a refresh-new-tail-lights.jpg 1976 R16TS - Kermit gets a refresh-img_1969.jpg

    Most recently I have been working on the bonnet hinge which was broken on the passenger side and a blown radiator hose. Next job is repair / replacement of the heater tap under the dash as it has stuck seized about half way on which will be very uncomfortable in warm weather. As a temporary fix I have installed a brass ball tap in the heater pipe as it passes behind the brake booster. See post here about issues with the radiator hose and bonnet hinge.
    R16 TS Questions

    As soon as I can get the radiator hose replaced and Kermit is mobile again, it is off to a friend’s place where there is a car hoist. All 5 wheels will come off for a sandblast, painting and new tyres. Photos to follow when that happens..
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    Cheers, Peter J
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    Quote Originally Posted by tresbon2 View Post
    Hello Peter. I see that you have the dreaded 'automatic' rear brake adjusting system. If your brake people get the handbrake to work please ask them how they did it and let me know! After much effort I have now got mine to work on up to a 5 degree slope.
    Hello Don. I don't know exactly what they did but the handbrake seems to work well enough for around here. But not many hills to worry about most places here and I really haven't had it out and about as such since the brake work so I'll let you know how it goes. One of the partners (Fred) in Narrabri Brake & Clutch is a friend so I'll get you some info but it might be a month as he is off on a trip with another friend who is in a small group riding motorbikes across Australia from Byron to Broome. Fred is in a 4x4 support ute. They aren't expected back until mid July.
    Cheers, Peter J
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    Don, I had a similar rear brake setup on an R12 wagon and remember I never got the auto adjust to work, so what I did was adjust the brake manually so the drum just fitted, then tested the brakes to make sure they weren't binding too much and weren't pulling. I then fine tuned it by observing the drum temperature as I found one side got hotter, presumably due to greater friction on that side.

    I concluded that a really good clean of the parts, careful lube, and importantly a new set of OEM brake springs would be the cure but I never bothered. I think correct spring tension is the key, but I could be wrong.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    Don, I had a similar rear brake setup on an R12 wagon and remember I never got the auto adjust to work, so what I did was adjust the brake manually so the drum just fitted, then tested the brakes to make sure they weren't binding too much and weren't pulling. I then fine tuned it by observing the drum temperature as I found one side got hotter, presumably due to greater friction on that side.

    I concluded that a really good clean of the parts, careful lube, and importantly a new set of OEM brake springs would be the cure but I never bothered. I think correct spring tension is the key, but I could be wrong.
    I had exactly the same problem with my kermit 16TS. Solution the same - adjust manually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    Don, I had a similar rear brake setup on an R12 wagon and remember I never got the auto adjust to work, so what I did was adjust the brake manually so the drum just fitted, then tested the brakes to make sure they weren't binding too much and weren't pulling. I then fine tuned it by observing the drum temperature as I found one side got hotter, presumably due to greater friction on that side.

    I concluded that a really good clean of the parts, careful lube, and importantly a new set of OEM brake springs would be the cure but I never bothered. I think correct spring tension is the key, but I could be wrong.
    We had that system and it just worked, always. So I've no idea I'm afraid as I never needed to even look at it.
    JohnW

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    Interesting.. I have made a note to talk to my mate at the brake works when he gets back from his cross Australia trip and let you all know. He is an old fashioned mechanic and probably would have done the manual thing as suggested by Ceenine and Stuey if there was a problem.
    Cheers, Peter J
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    Thanks Peter,

    Great stuff - I know they came in other colours but I remember this included dark red/burgundy, green, white and brown-yellow
    I smile whenever I see a 16TS at car meets or on the road.
    I learnt to drive in one. Dad had a white one, my uncle (his brother) a yellow one (a TL I think) and my grandfather a dark red one...
    I even had an uncle who worked on line assembling them in Heidelberg.
    I still regret I didnt keep Dad's car - I think he sold it for $250 in the late 80s !!
    Thanks for the posts and good luck.

    Ramon
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    Looking at getting the wheels sandblasted and painted soon. Does anyone know the correct silver / grey paint colour for the rims.? Or just any silver is good.? I have these standard type, and not the "special" Gordini copy..

    1976 R16TS - Kermit gets a refresh-r16-ts-front-qtr.jpg
    Cheers, Peter J
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    I'd get them to match paint or powder coat to the outside of the rim where the tyre has protected the paint.
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    JohnW

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    Thanks John. That's what I was thinking I'd do, but thought there may have been a colour code to be sure.
    Cheers, Peter J
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    Kermit Update..

    I have changed the radiator hose and installed a replacement thermostat. The old thermo was shot to bits which may have been the root cause of the blown hose. See photo below. Thanks for the spare thermo you put in with the hoses Don.. I gave it a boil test and all good..

    1976 R16TS - Kermit gets a refresh-old-thermostat.jpg

    So the motor is all go again and I have today taken Kermit up the road to a mate's place who has a hoist. Kermit is resting there like a turtle on a post (sans wheels) for a few days while the rims are sandblasted and painted and fitted with new rubber.

    Next little task is to take the steering wheel off and refit it up the right way. See next photo.. I have removed the front fascia and the first lock nut but cannot get a grip on the second big lock nut. It is about 36mm and i don't have a big enough spanner. Is there any trick with this or can I just get a bigger hammer so to speak.?

    1976 R16TS - Kermit gets a refresh-steering-wheel.jpg

    I have posted an add in parts for a new wheel. One of the anodized TS Special type as this is what I had back in the day.. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
    Cheers, Peter J
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    Hi,

    That is not a nut to be loosened. That hex is part of the steering wheel. I found that to get it off you need a heavy brass drift or rod long enough to put it on the shaft, get in and get something on the floor so that you can get your knees behind the steering wheel and then lift you legs with your feet to put a lot of tension on the wheel to "pull" it out. Once in this position you put the drift on the shaft and hit it with an almighty big hammer. After a few times it will come loose. You might want to put the nut back on loosely and flush with the threaded shaft before you hit it for extra care of the threads.

    All this unless you have a special puller.

    Frans.
    Last edited by Frans; 24th June 2018 at 05:43 PM. Reason: Spelling
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    Old enough to know better
    Young enough to do it anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    Hi,

    That is not a nut to be loosened. That hex is part of the steering wheel. I found that to get it off you need a heavy brass drift or rod long enough to put it on the shaft, get in and get something on the floor so that you can get your knees behind the steering wheel and then lift you legs with your feet to put a lot of tension on the wheel to "pull" it out. Once in this position you put the drift on the shaft and hit it with an almighty big hammer. After a few times it will come loose. You might want to put the nut back on loosely and flush with the threaded shaft before you hit it for extra care of the threads.

    All this unless you have a special puller.

    Frans.
    I have found that if you put the nut back on so that it is flush with the end of the shaft, and with your hands hit the steering wheel towards you it will eventually come loose on the spine. The best place to hit is near the spokes.

    The reason to have the nut on is so the wheel does not hit you in the head.
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    Regards Col

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    So back on task here finally after being a bit slack. Today I finally got the bonnet hinge fixed with the help of a neighbor who is a fitter and turner. First we centre-punched out the rusted section of the old hinge pin which had broken off in the hinge. He ground the remnants of the old hinge pin back flush to the guard frame section and welded a small bolt in place of it. We then fitted washers and nylon bush nut to match. Et Voila.!! Should work like a charm. Bonnet to be refitted later today. Some pics of the process. -

    1976 R16TS - Kermit gets a refresh-img_1979.jpg 1976 R16TS - Kermit gets a refresh-img_1976.jpg 1976 R16TS - Kermit gets a refresh-img_2304.jpg 1976 R16TS - Kermit gets a refresh-img_2305.jpg1976 R16TS - Kermit gets a refresh-img_2306.jpg

    Still need to get onto the steering wheel now to get it up the right way. And there seems to still be a coolant leak somewhere down the side of the head under the carby when it gets hot. Always something eh..
    Cheers, Peter J
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    Oh, I forgot to mention the wheels have been sandblasted and powder coated and I have cleaned the hub caps up. They look reasonably good with the new tyres. Ended up going with Kumho Solus 175/70 R14 84T. Very happy with them so far.

    1976 R16TS - Kermit gets a refresh-wheels-new-tyres..jpg
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    Cheers, Peter J
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    Quote Originally Posted by CXVingtCinq View Post
    So back on task here finally after being a bit slack. Today I finally got the bonnet hinge fixed with the help of a neighbor who is a fitter and turner. First we centre-punched out the rusted section of the old hinge pin which had broken off in the hinge. He ground the remnants of the old hinge pin back flush to the guard frame section and welded a small bolt in place of it. We then fitted washers and nylon bush nut to match. Et Voila.!! Should work like a charm. Bonnet to be refitted later today. Some pics of the process. -

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    Still need to get onto the steering wheel now to get it up the right way. And there seems to still be a coolant leak somewhere down the side of the head under the carby when it gets hot. Always something eh..
    On the water leak, under the inlet manifold you will find some little welsh plugs in the head, its probably one of these that has rotted out.

    As a temporary fix on one of my Renault R17TL engines (which are similar to the R16 engine) I used some Quiksteel https://www.repco.com.au/en/brands/q...tty/p/A8206899 to fix it. I think this engine still has that temporary fix in it.

    To fix it permanently you will need to remove the inlet manifold and replace the welsh plug.

    Edit: With a torch and a mirror you maybe able to confirm where the leak actually is.
    Last edited by COL; 12th August 2018 at 07:27 PM.
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    Regards Col

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    Quote Originally Posted by CXVingtCinq View Post
    Oh, I forgot to mention the wheels have been sandblasted and powder coated and I have cleaned the hub caps up. They look reasonably good with the new tyres. Ended up going with Kumho Solus 175/70 R14 84T. Very happy with them so far.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    kh17 or kh32? (solus is a range, not a type)
    In either case, I'll be interested to hear how you find them if you ever get rain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    kh17 or kh32? (solus is a range, not a type)
    In either case, I'll be interested to hear how you find them if you ever get rain.
    Sorry, they are the HS61. Yeah, rain / wet road performance wasn't a big factor in the buying decision. I think we've had all of 9mm of 'rain' in a few misty showers since 1st of July and only 149mm for 2018. Most of that was in late Jan / early Feb so it is incredibly dry out here. Normally I would be more concerned at the wet weather performance of a tyre but Kermit is a hobby for the occasional weekend drive and if it ever is wet again around here he probably won't get a run out anyway. This pic shows the tread pattern if you are interested.

    1976 R16TS - Kermit gets a refresh-new-tyres.jpg
    Cheers, Peter J
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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    On the water leak, under the inlet manifold you will find some little welsh plugs in the head, its probably one of these that has rotted out.

    As a temporary fix on one of my Renault R17TL engines (which are similar to the R16 engine) I used some Quiksteel https://www.repco.com.au/en/brands/q...tty/p/A8206899 to fix it. I think this engine still has that temporary fix in it.

    To fix it permanently you will need to remove the inlet manifold and replace the welsh plug.

    Edit: With a torch and a mirror you maybe able to confirm where the leak actually is.
    Thanks a million Col. I'll have a look at that. From an initial poking around in the dark I thought it may be the small water hose going to the base of the carby, but hard to tell until I can get some more light in there. The hose sounds like an easier fix to me, so fingers crossed. We have a Repco store in town so the Quicksteel putty could be an option. Cheers.
    Cheers, Peter J
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    Quote Originally Posted by CXVingtCinq View Post
    Sorry, they are the HS61. Yeah, rain / wet road performance wasn't a big factor in the buying decision. I think we've had all of 9mm of 'rain' in a few misty showers since 1st of July and only 149mm for 2018. Most of that was in late Jan / early Feb so it is incredibly dry out here. Normally I would be more concerned at the wet weather performance of a tyre but Kermit is a hobby for the occasional weekend drive and if it ever is wet again around here he probably won't get a run out anyway. This pic shows the tread pattern if you are interested.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Ta. A new one on me. Its predecessor, the HS51, seems to be grippy but soggy in structure &/or shoulder treatment. Crisp handling it isn't. I'd be interested how you find the HS 61 as experience builds.

    For what it's worth for any other R16 owners up for new tyres, my current recommendation as the best tyre available for the R16 (on any parameter except wear rate) is Continental's PremiumContact 2 (definitely crisp handling). Available in 175/70 & 165/70.

    Enjoy the R16; I have a soft spot for them.
    Peter

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