R8 or A110 Brakes
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Thread: R8 or A110 Brakes

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default R8 or A110 Brakes

    On my A110, I have installed a big brake package with 22mm tandem master cylinder. I also have a hydraulic handbrake with cables on the same handbrake lever based on a unit supplied by Rix Engineering in the UK. What worries me is that if one part of the system fails, I have no brakes at all except the cable operated handbrake. I have been looking for posts by Brett on his R8 upgrade project specifically on brakes as I think he installed a dual braking system but despite searching have not found. He did say he was posting elsewhere separate from his post on the R8 upgrade project. Can anyone point me in the right direction or provide a link to the post?

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    I think his brake page is early on in the resto thread (maybe P8 or 9)- I know because I've studied it fairly regularly!
    He used a Toyota dual master cylinder from memory.

    C.lees describes how he is using a kangoo cylinder with a machined adapter, and frabricated pushrods a few pages back in his resto thread. I'm planning on doing mods similar to him master cylinder wise, and similar to Brett's in other respects.
    KB


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    Quote Originally Posted by bazzamac View Post
    I have installed a big brake package with 22mm tandem master cylinder. I also have a hydraulic handbrake with cables on the same handbrake lever based on a unit supplied by Rix Engineering in the UK. What worries me is that if one part of the system fails, I have no brakes at all except the cable operated handbrake.
    How is this the case? You have indicated there is a tandem master cylinder in place, which, effectively, mandates the use of separate lines for the front and rear brakes with separate reservoirs for the fluid in each circuit. Or was something else less elaborate used in conjunction with the fitted dual circuit cylinder?
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    Hi Simon
    I have separate brake reservoirs but not sure if there are separate lines for the front and rear brakes. I thought there was but in any case it is going to ACT Brakes tomorrow to check it out. They installed the brake system in the first place using components I obtained from Simon Auto.

    Hi KB

    I looked thru every page of brettr's posts but could find what he did with his brakes except in page 1 he said that it would be dealt with elsewhere. I'll go thru it again t be sure to be sure as the Irish say. I'll check C Lees' posts as well.

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    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    I think post #34 at R8 upgrade project

    may be what your looking for
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    Thanks Fivedoor. It was actually post 2 at R8 Upgrade project. Don't know how I missed it but he didn't say much quite deliberately because it was such a pain in the butt to do. His master cylinder is exactly the same as on my A110 but of course I don't have brake boosters - altho I think some A110s had one according to my parts book.

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    I second Simon's remark. The main merit of a tandem set up is that one has basically got the fronts & the rears on two distinct circuits.

    cheers! Peter

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    Hi all

    Got my brakes on the A110 sorted in time for the Challenge Bathurst and my car even got featured in the local paper the Western Advocate - see McAdie makes first appearance at Challenge Bathurst | Western Advocate

    Problem was that the piston on the hydraulic handbrake had come out letting brake fluid out. Problem fixed with locking nuts.

    i discussed the question with ACT Brakes as to whether a tandem master cylinder gives you a dual braking system so that if one fails you still have brakes. I also discussed this question with the mechanics from Revolution Racegear in Mitchell who were with me at Bathurst.The short answer is that it does not - you have to have dual master cylinders working in tandem off the one brake pedal. A tandem master cylinder only has one piston and even tho you have two brake fluid reservoirs you still do not get a dual braking system. My car has a tandem master cylinder with separate lines to the front and back brakes but when there is a leak in the system I have no brakes at all which seems to prove the point. According to the website "How a Car Works" Most modern cars are fitted with twin hydraulic circuits, with two master cylinders in tandem, in case one should fail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bazzamac View Post
    Hi all

    Got my brakes on the A110 sorted in time for the Challenge Bathurst and my car even got featured in the local paper the Western Advocate - see McAdie makes first appearance at Challenge Bathurst | Western Advocate

    Problem was that the piston on the hydraulic handbrake had come out letting brake fluid out. Problem fixed with locking nuts.

    i discussed the question with ACT Brakes as to whether a tandem master cylinder gives you a dual braking system so that if one fails you still have brakes. I also discussed this question with the mechanics from Revolution Racegear in Mitchell who were with me at Bathurst.The short answer is that it does not - you have to have dual master cylinders working in tandem off the one brake pedal. A tandem master cylinder only has one piston and even tho you have two brake fluid reservoirs you still do not get a dual braking system. My car has a tandem master cylinder with separate lines to the front and back brakes but when there is a leak in the system I have no brakes at all which seems to prove the point. According to the website "How a Car Works" Most modern cars are fitted with twin hydraulic circuits, with two master cylinders in tandem, in case one should fail.
    I do not agree that you will still have brakes on one system if you have dual master cylinders working in tandem off the one brake pedal. In real life, if you lose all the fluid from one master cylinder, in most situations the balance bar has enough travel that it will not adequately activate the second master cylinder when the pedal is virtually on the floor. So you still have no brakes!

    Even if you have slight activation, it is only on either the front or rear which just causes a massive lock up at any reasonable sort of speed, so you really don't have any braking capacity.

    I speak both from direct observation and personal experience.
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    I’m going to keep it short, as it is not difficult to refute the awesome advice you have been given :-). However, 50ish years of the motor industry using single tandem brake master cylinders can’t be wrong. Sure, they are not fail safe, and sure one circuit only will not provide full “normal” braking – but they do work in a majority of cases - you just have to push harder (to take up the “slack” in the non –operating circuit) to get the second piston to operate. Also there should be a warning light in place to give an indication there has been a pressure drop in one of the circuits (before total failure of the dodgy circuit). And, there are two pistons in a majority, if not all, tandem brake master cylinders.

    I’m not sure of the context of your “How a Car Works” quote – it could be interpreted in a few ways. However a majority of road cars have a single master cylinder, with two pistons separated by a spring operating two separate hydraulic circuits (a very simplistic description by me).

    And as Bustamif elaborates, even two separate master cylinders won’t always work. Mr Quinn found that out when he bumped his McLaren into a wall during practice at the Adelaide AGT round a couple of years ago.

    As usual with anything in cars, especially for competition, brakes are not something to be taken lightly.
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    The operating principles of the Renault 8/10 tandem master cylinder, from the Renault manual. I'm guessing it will be similar, if not the same, as the type fitted to the A110.

    You may want to give a copy to the Revolution Racegear people.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R8 or A110 Brakes-dsc00456.jpg   R8 or A110 Brakes-dsc00457.jpg   R8 or A110 Brakes-dsc00455.jpg  
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