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Thread: Ladydauphine's FIRST 1961 Renault Dauphine

  1. #26
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    With the cylinder head there is a steel tube approx 14mm in diameter, with holes facing the exhaust ports that goes from one end of the head to the other. It is steel and often corroded away badly and will need to replaced if tired. They are available new, (not expensive)or it can be made yourself with a bit of time and effort. Of course I couldn't also resist getting 1mm or more shaved off the head to give it some compression, depending on how many times it has been shaved before.

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    My wife has a nice original '62 Dauphine Gordini (beige) that I only get to drive whilst she is in the car. It is a happy little thing and quite fun to pilot.
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  2. #27
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    Good advice, re the water distribution tube. You wouldn't believe how badly they can be corroded and/or blocked.
    JohnW

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  3. #28
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    Nice looking Dauphine. Good move with the brake linings too, the one in the pic looks like the lining would be loose on the shoe, so spongy brakes and the shoe could let go.

    Don't forget to give the numerous grease nipples all over the front end, and on the rear wheel bearings a grease. The front end should be greased regularly as the king pin bushes can be prone to wear.

    Also, if it has the three-speed (a four-speed 'box was a rare Dauphine "Normale" option) first will be to the left and back, with reverse left and forward (where first is in a "normal" four-speed floor shift). Don't find that one out taking off at the lights.

    Whilst the motor is in bits, get everything balanced. They are a sweet little motor, and respond well to tiny things like balancing all the components and matching the ports on the head and manifold - likely not big gains in terms of horsepower - just a nice motor where you can surf a fairly wide torque curve. Don't forget that the input shaft on the gearbox also has a seal that is best replaced whilst everything is apart.

    Grinding a socket isn't really necessary to remove the head bolts, as the rocker arms can be fiddled out of the way once the adjusting screw is completely removed, and the pushrod is pulled out. Also remove the rocker shafts from the head, as they can become blocked internally by sludge if past oil changes have been delayed. They are easily cleaned with a small bottle brush.
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    Thanks all for the help!

    Any suggestions as to where I can source the water pipe in the cylinder head? Hopefully there's a local option.

    Another question, this time on clutches.

    I've removed the engine today, which I'll start work on next. The infamous gearbox input shaft seal has been leaking (as always!) and completely destroyed the friction plate.

    I'm looking into clutch bits now, and I'm wondering how necessary it is to replace the pressure plate. I know it's very difficult to tell if the springs are ok by eyeballing things, but I'd doubt (even with the power of 32 thoroughbred, Mont Ventoux altitude-trained stallions!) that there'd be a pressing reason to replace the pressure plate.

    If not, I'm tempted to take the friction plate to the same place that's doing the brake shoes and have it relined.

    I'll replace the release bearing; looks like there's only one type? Although I see Franzose.de have an updated brass bearing instead of Graphite, I don't really see the point given the kilometres the car will be doing.

    Thanks,

    Toby




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    Last edited by renault12; 25th July 2017 at 04:10 PM.

  5. #30
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    Pièces mécanique ICHARD.FR - Pièces détachées pour voitures de collection

    Ichard has them in stock in France for Euro 20 (Tube de refroidissement culasse). I'm sure I've bought things from them and their catalogue is well illustrated. There's been a batch of these tubes made in Oz but I'm not sure who might have any left - I'll email around a bit for you.

    The French suppliers can be good to deal with, or not. It's a bit patchy but by and large I've found things OK. Many of them have a minimum shipping charge of Euro 40 or something like that, so it's best to have a batch of things you need.
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    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
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    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    Citroën CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  6. #31
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    Default Now for the facts from the third owner from new.

    This car is possibly one of the most original in the world. It has never been restored other than a replaced rear drivers side mudguard and was repainted by the second owner from Euromotive. All other panels are original and rust free.

    The engine kit you have is the one that I purchased for a Toro Ride on Mower Lol. ( This same engine was also used in the Councils road sweeper.)

    The car did serve time in the Mini Series "The Shark Net" this was available from the ABC shop

    The miles are original. The engine was still going but smoky. Needed a clutch cable or accelerator I can't remember. The carb is brand new original parts I found in Tassie. Some bumper ends also from that find.

    Three speed manual gear box some brake work had been done with cylinders.

    The paper work is all there from first owner. There were new tail lights on it from nos spares. The upholstery is also untouched.

    We used this car for trips to wineries and club events with my two young children on board. It got tons of smiles from motorists.

    A bit of The Shark Net. My kids found it hard to use the back seat after the love session in the back seat!

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5MVoV-xRs04
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graelin View Post
    This car is possibly one of the most original in the world. It has never been restored other than a replaced rear drivers side mudguard and was repainted by the second owner from Euromotive. All other panels are original and rust free.

    The engine kit you have is the one that I purchased for a Toro Ride on Mower Lol. ( This same engine was also used in the Councils road sweeper.)

    The car did serve time in the Mini Series "The Shark Net" this was available from the ABC shop

    The miles are original. The engine was still going but smoky. Needed a clutch cable or accelerator I can't remember. The carb is brand new original parts I found in Tassie. Some bumper ends also from that find.

    Three speed manual gear box some brake work had been done with cylinders.

    The paper work is all there from first owner. There were new tail lights on it from nos spares. The upholstery is also untouched.

    We used this car for trips to wineries and club events with my two young children on board. It got tons of smiles from motorists.

    A bit of The Shark Net. My kids found it hard to use the back seat after the love session in the back seat!

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5MVoV-xRs04
    Graelin! I've spent the last few days searching through your posts on Aussierfrogs as Peter, the last owner of the car, had said he thought you owned it before him. I was searching for confirmation before getting in touch, but here we are! Thanks for posting- I can't stress enough how fantastic and important it is for me to know the history of the car. Makes it even more special!

    We couldn't believe how good a condition the car was in when we went and looked.. Amazing. We're only doing the mechanical work she needs after sitting for so long, but body-wise and certainly the interior, we're leaving everything exactly as it is now. I really want to preserve everything rather than replace it. She's such a time capsule. I keep saying to myself she'd be perfectly at home in a museum! She's certainly in sympathetic hands and will never see a rainy day once she's back on the road.

    Well, the engine kit will be going to good use. We got the engine removed from the car today, and the cylinder head is off being overhauled at the moment. We're going to replace all the bearings, machine the crank and, as Simon suggested, get everything balanced as well.

    That's excellent to hear so many new (old!) original parts made it on to the car. We're trying to buy all new old parts to replace things that need changing; one headlight ring is badly distorted, but we found a new genuine one on eBay France which should arrive soon. All the brake cylinders have been changed again as the new ones were sitting open and had rusted and seized again.

    I've spent ages pouring over all the paperwork- it's fascinating! The original delivery receipt makes for interesting reading- again, we're so lucky to have documentation like that.

    There's now a tiny tear in the drivers seat, but I've tracked down a place which specialises in the repair of old priceless antique fabric restoration, and we'll drop it in to them to work their magic. The new tail lights still haven't been fitted, but we'll do that as the final and finishing touch.

    Thanks for the trailer! She's a genuine movie star! I'll go out in my lunch break tomorrow and track down the DVD to add to the history file of the car. Looks like a good movie too! Neither Toby nor I have seen it, so we're looking forward to it. Only caught a glimpse of the interior during the clip you posted..

    Have you got any photos of the car from your ownership? Feel free to PM me or post them in the thread here!

    My husband spent another day working on her, and we've got the engine removed and started cleaning up some components ready for refitting when the time comes:

    Ladydauphine's FIRST 1961 Renault Dauphine-img_7694.jpg

    Ladydauphine's FIRST 1961 Renault Dauphine-img_7691.jpg

    Ladydauphine's FIRST 1961 Renault Dauphine-img_7689.jpg

    Thanks,

    Liesel

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault12 View Post
    Another question, this time on clutches.

    I've removed the engine today, which I'll start work on next. The infamous gearbox input shaft seal has been leaking (as always!) and completely destroyed the friction plate.
    Check for any bluing of the pressure plate face, indicating clutch slip, and potential overheating of the clutch pressure plate springs. This would lead to a juddering clutch. OTOH, it could be OK. See how you go with the clutch plate getting re-lined, sometimes the springs in the clutch plate can also be worn, as well as the segments between the linings getting overheated if things have been slipping. Let me know how you go, as I may have a new plate to suit – one of the same was supplied to a Floride owner years ago (same clutch), but I never heard back if it fitted. Note that an early R4 clutch plate will not suit, as it is sprung for use on the R4 motor which rotates in the opposite direction.

    Have a look at the thrust bearing face, there are sometimes two chamfers on the edge visible, indicating it isn't totally worn – but they may not be on some aftermarket thrust bearings. Also there is sometimes available a direct replacement roller thrust, as used on the early R4.

    The tube in the head should be able to be fabricated by the same place that you are getting it recoed, that is, if it actually needs replacing. Have a good look at it to see if there are any obvious signs of corrosion, as there is a bit of messing about to extract it if needs be. Otherwise it should be fairly straight forward to replicate if needs be, the holes being spaced and directed at the exhaust valve seats. Hopefully though, it won't require replacing.

    Also have a good look at the liners in the piston liner kit. If they are for a Toro mower as indicated above, they may be later paper liner seal liners that are not suited to the earlier copper liner seal block fitted to the Dauphine. The copper liner seal liners are 112.8mm from the top of the liner, to the bottom of the (flat bottomed V) liner seat. The later paper liner seal liner is 112mm from the top of the liner to the bottom of the flat liner seal.
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  9. #34
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    Lady Dauphine.

    I have plenty of photos and some are when the car was being sold. Photobucket has just stuffed so much up for me as most of this is on there. I am not paying them $400 per year. If you can send by PM your Email address I can see what I have.

    Pity about the engine reco kit if it is a Simon quoted above and he has great knowledge on this. I can not remember who I bought it from but was assured it was for the Dauphine, cost $440-00 I remember that bit.

  10. #35
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    [QUOTE=Graelin;1528728]This car is possibly one of the most original in the world. It has never been restored other than a replaced rear drivers side mudguard and was repainted by the second owner from Euromotive. All other panels are original and rust free. /QUOTE]

    Good you've spotted this thread and hope all's well in your camp! I remember the car quite well from Euromotive days.

    Cheers,
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    JohnW

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    Renault R8 1965
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    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
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  11. #36
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    Good news!

    I measured the piston and liner set.. 112.8mm!

    The clutch is almost brand new, but contaminated with oil, so will have to be replaced. That means that at least the pressure plate will be reusable. Simon, I'll PM you about the friction plate you thought you may still have before we decide what to do with this one.

    Thanks all,

    Toby
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault12 View Post
    Good news! I measured the piston and liner set.. 112.8mm! The clutch is almost brand new, but contaminated with oil, so will have to be replaced. That means that at least the pressure plate will be reusable. Simon, I'll PM you about the friction plate you thought you may still have before we decide what to do with this one. Thanks all, Toby
    Good to hear! Don't forget that seal between the diff. and the clutch...

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    Citroën CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault12 View Post
    Good news!

    I measured the piston and liner set.. 112.8mm!
    OK, that's one part, the other I just remembered. Check the gudgeon pins. On the Dauphine, they are a floating 14mm pin, on the later (1970 onwards) R4 they changed to an interference fit 16mm pin. So you will need to check to make sure the pistons will fit the rods.
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  14. #39
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    Hi Ladydauphine,
    PM sent re: cooling tube

  15. #40
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    I think that I got the piston liner kit from Kevin at Euromotive. Amazing parts guy that could still quote Dauphine parts in Pounds and Shillings! Bit different to the Vin number required.
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  16. #41
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    Ahhh, so it WAS the one in Euromotive. I looked over that car quite a bit when I used to go down there. I thought it was Ian's car.

    Kevin was like the famous 'Jack' from Winterbottoms with BMC parts. A legend.
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    Hi Ladydauphine,

    Only half an hour before reading this post, I took my dad for his first drive in my Citroën DSpécial, Daphne, and he was telling a story about (easily) changing the timing gear in evening suit of the Dauphine he once had!

    Welcome to the forum and classic car ownership - I've found members here to be tremendous fonts of knowledge, practical advice and good cheer. I have had a small hand in working on my D, but I am not really very hands-on, so I applaud you and wish you all the best in your restoration.

    Cheers,
    Melanie

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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    Ahhh, so it WAS the one in Euromotive. I looked over that car quite a bit when I used to go down there. I thought it was Ian's car.

    Kevin was like the famous 'Jack' from Winterbottoms with BMC parts. A legend.
    Ian was the second owner I was third, the car went East and was never driven.
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  19. #44
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Graelin,
    Kevin at Eurocars [Eurocars]. Made you always welcome even though my visits were rare, we are talking Peugeot here
    Kevin, now retired but I'm told his replacement is very helpful.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graelin View Post
    I think that I got the piston liner kit from Kevin at Euromotive. Amazing parts guy that could still quote Dauphine parts in Pounds and Shillings! Bit different to the Vin number required.
    Graelin,

    Good to hear. It should be the right one I dare say, but Simon, I'll measure the gudgeon pins tomorrow and post the results.

    Got the cylinder head back today too. I haven't even unwrapped it (even the best of us have to go to work some days!), but I'll have a look and post a few pictures tomorrow afternoon.

    They replaced the valve guides, valve seats, stem seals and helicoiled a few stripped threads. They made up a new water pipe too, the old one was quite badly corroded apparently. No other significant damage except some minor corrosion which is excellent news!

    I only got a really light skim too, as tempting as it was to bump the compression up a little bit, that's not really what this car will be for. Keeping everything standard is more important given the car's splendid condition.

    A spare engine came with the car too, so I'll rebuild that in the fullness of time and perhaps do something a little more "exciting..."!

    Till tomorrow,

    Toby


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  21. #46
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    Barring another 508 resource error, attached is a pic of the clutch plate. PM your address and I'll get it on its way!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ladydauphine's FIRST 1961 Renault Dauphine-dsc09189.jpg  
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  22. #47
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    Thanks Simon! Looks absolutely spot on. PM'd!


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  23. #48
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    Good one Simon!

    Mr Wilde, yeah I knew Grae meant Kevin at Eurocars. He still does some days there (or at least he did about a year ago).

    Graelin, thanks for the info. re the succession of owners. I assume you picked it up when they closed down.
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  24. #49
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    I bought it before Euromotive closed down. Took my MI16 in and saw the Dauphine. An exact copy of my first car in colour. My first car was a NZ model 1965 from memory and had four wheel disc brakes though. So I just had to buy this one. My time out of motorcycling as kids grew up. Now back into my motorcycles and longer distance rides.
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  25. #50
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    Default Weekend update - 30/7/17

    We had a great weekend of work on the Dauphine!

    We got the cylinder head back last week, it's looking good and almost ready to be fitted; only catch is the water pipe inside! We told them to replace it when we dropped it in, but they weren't familiar with the head and didn't replace it. It is badly corroded and has come completely away from the cylinder head at one end! Thanks to JohnW's generosity in tracking one down though, we're arranging a replacement and we'll have it fitted before everything gets put back together.

    Otherwise, the cylinder head has been rebuilt with new valve guides, stem seals and it was pressure tested and came up O.K which is good news.

    Ladydauphine's FIRST 1961 Renault Dauphine-img_7722.jpgLadydauphine's FIRST 1961 Renault Dauphine-img_7723.jpg

    We also got the rocker cover sandblasted at the same time to make it easier to paint. I really like the silver actually! I'm thinking of leaving it as silver (painted of course) instead of repainting the original green... What are everyones thoughts?

    Ladydauphine's FIRST 1961 Renault Dauphine-img_7721.jpg

    We continued on with dismantling the motor too. It's all completely stripped down now with everything removed ready for cleaning tomorrow. I've been reading quite a few threads online about timing idler gear wear, but ours was completely fine.

    Ladydauphine's FIRST 1961 Renault Dauphine-img_7711.jpg

    There was significant wear in every cylinder, and we found cylinder two and three both had a broken piston ring each. I'm sure it was a bit smokey when it last ran!

    The good news though was that when we removed the cylinder liners, there was absolutely no corrosion where they seat in the block. We didn't get a good photo here, but it's all as new which was a great relief! Bad photo below (I couldn't resist scraping inside the engine block with a screwdriver which dislodged a lot of loose rust!), but the overall condition was excellent and will come up really well after a thorough cleaning.

    Ladydauphine's FIRST 1961 Renault Dauphine-img_7718.jpg

    Tomorrow we'll go and drop the engine and parts off for cleaning and any necessary machining work before we start the refitting process!

    I also polished up all the hubcaps and engine intake vents which came up beautifully! Forgot to get photos, but I'll post some next time I head down to the garage.

    Thanks,

    Liesel
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