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Thread: Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!

  1. #51
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Yes, sorry, I'm away for a while.

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    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  2. #52
    Fellow Frogger! moeozz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    Yes, sorry, I'm away for a while.
    No worries Peter, hopefully others can chip in too
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  3. #53
    Fellow Frogger! moeozz's Avatar
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    Any help here guys?
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  4. #54
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Here some pics of a 405 (with broken lid) and a smaller 205 distribution block. Either will make your life a lot easier.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-205-power-distribution-block.jpg   Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-405-power-distribution-block-1.jpg   Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-405-power-distribution-block-2.jpg   Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-405-power-distribution-block-3.jpg  

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  5. #55
    Fellow Frogger! moeozz's Avatar
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    Thanks Peter. I went to my local wreckers and picked 1 up from a 405 non mi16. Now I get how it works.
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  6. #56
    Fellow Frogger! moeozz's Avatar
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    What sort of fuel hoses would I need from the fuel filter(top) to the fuel rail, and from the fuel regulator to the fuel return pipe on the bulkhead.
    6mm, 7mm, 8mm, standard fuel pipes or fuel injection pipes suitable for higher pressure?
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  7. #57
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    Fuel injection hose only, determined by banjo on top of filter and connector to pressure regulator. Does that make sensse?
    87 S1 205 GTI / GTI6 powered a project underway

  8. #58
    Fellow Frogger! moeozz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew View Post
    Fuel injection hose only, determined by banjo on top of filter and connector to pressure regulator. Does that make sensse?
    The Banjo on top of the fuel filter is smaller diameter to the connector on the mi16 fuel rail. So the original 205 fuel hose wouldn't slip on (the original also had the screw connector on the rail end). I used the hose that originally came on the mi16 fuel rail (pictured a page back with the damper connected) instead however I'm unsure if this is fuel injected 'certified' (as the stiffness between the 2 hoses is noticeable). I hose clamped the banjo end, but is there an issue using a slightly bigger hose than the banjo diameter? I didn't expect people to replace their banjo's for this conversion?

    The fuel return hose on the 205 is too short to reach the mi16 fuel regulator. The bulkhead end is the screw on type also which I'm reluctant to replace. I'm thinking of buying a brass joiner and connecting the 2 hoses together rather than replace the entire thing.

    I've probably confused you?
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  9. #59
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    Get onto ebay you can get bigger / smaller banjo for filter to suite and then tidy hoses! M18 if i remember. No confusion, may be messy and if you get the right parts it just works. The 205 fuel lines are bigger than the outlet banjo so they do carry enough fuel, found this when I fitted the gti6, the lines match the fuel inlet but the filter was way out.

    Here we go,

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Metric-BA...ar=&hash=item0
    Last edited by Matthew; 16th April 2017 at 10:12 AM.
    87 S1 205 GTI / GTI6 powered a project underway

  10. #60
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Yes, you need to a buy a new banjo fitting with a 3/8" outlet. I got mine from Motorsport Connections. I also bought matching E85 Injection hose from them. It's the only hose that seems to last. You can use non-EFI 5/16" hose from the rail/regulator back to the tank, as it isn't under pressure. However, I'd do it all in E85 hose.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  11. #61
    Fellow Frogger! moeozz's Avatar
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    Thanks all.

    For record keeping/future reference. I just removed the AC compressor as I was never going to use it anyway and couldn't get around the lower radiator hoses.. Replaced the accessory belt with a 5pk710.
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  12. #62
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    Changed the engine + gearbox oil, filters, plugs and joined a few wires not expecting much to be honest. But.. it started...Unbelievable!!!

    I don't want to think too far ahead but I'm hoping things go smoother from this point. I'm in no rush to put everything back together though.

    Recorded my special moment
    https://youtu.be/xZrLUKQ4geE
    Last edited by moeozz; 18th April 2017 at 11:14 AM.
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  13. #63
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    Well done mate
    S3 205 GTI x 4
    2013 Fiesta ST
    MK6 GTI Edition 35

    Previous: 1988 205 GTI Mi16 Turbo, Mk1Golf, MkV GTI , RCS 172 x2 , 306 S16, VW Bora V6 4motion

  14. #64
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    Good job Now come finish mine when I dig it out from under all the stuff from the move.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warus View Post
    Good job Now come finish mine when I dig it out from under all the stuff from the move.
    I don't trust myself sometimes but happy to help where possible
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  16. #66
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    Ok.. I think I have a problem!
    Before starting the car, I replaced the spark plugs. The engine has started couple more times since.
    For some odd reason, I just removed the spark plugs. I found that 2 of the plugs were completely new... no oil or burnt marks on the tip, the other 2 looked ok.

    Would could be the reason for those 2 not sparking? Do I have a dud engine? No compression? bent valves? or just a dodgy distributor?

    Help! I'm hoping for the best but expecting the worst here

    EDIT: nevermind. Looks like the spark leads were incorrectly ordered! Can't believe the qerkyness of this engine, everything is back-to-front
    Last edited by moeozz; 24th April 2017 at 05:33 PM.
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  17. #67
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    What have guys done in regards to the Air-Filter? I'l like to keep the battery and wash bottle in it's original location, so this limits my options, unless someone can recommend otherwise?

    I also need the Filter-AFM adapter, can this be purchased somewhere within AUS? I can only find UK sellers
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  18. #68
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Hi, the firing order is 1342 just like any other 4 cyl car, counting from the flywheel, just like any other car (okay, maybe there are others counting from the other end, but those are the exception, not the Pug). There's nothing wrong either way.

    Your plugs will fire anyway if you have at least one plug wired correctly, they just won't do any good and the engine will sound like a Harley engine with a serious cold. Surprised you didn't feel anything was wrong when you started the engine.

    You can find the hose you're after in many other shops in Europe at more decent prices than UK.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Hi, the firing order is 1342 just like any other 4 cyl car, counting from the flywheel, just like any other car (okay, maybe there are others counting from the other end, but those are the exception, not the Pug). There's nothing wrong either way.

    Your plugs will fire anyway if you have at least one plug wired correctly, they just won't do any good and the engine will sound like a Harley engine with a serious cold.
    I thought I had it sorted but now I may be wrong!
    Are the engine cylinders numbered the same way as the firing order?
    I currently have the leads cabled so that the Cylinder nearest to the flywheel (#1 red in picture) connects to #1 on the distributor. The cylinder nearest to the timing belt (#4 red) connects to #4 distributor.
    See the attached pictures. Red is how I've ordered it, blue is yours.

    Have I done any damage? The 2 dead spark plugs had wear on them when I checked so something sparked..


    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Surprised you didn't feel anything was wrong when you started the engine.
    I'm surprised I got the engine started in the first place!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-16v2.jpg   Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-distributor.png  
    Last edited by moeozz; 27th April 2017 at 03:56 PM.
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  20. #70
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Hang on.
    Let's take a step back.

    There are two things.

    1. Cylinder counting: from flywheel 1 to 4 (timing cover end)

    Counting works like when you count your fingers. Don't jumble up the numbers or you end up with three fingers or six. When you end up with 10 fingers, you're doing it right or you made a number of mistakes that offset each other!

    2. Firing order: 1-3-4-2 (this is not counting, this is the order of the spark plugs firing). This means the dizzy needs to send spark to the plugs in this order (if you connect the wires correctly, of course). The rotor under that dizzy cap will point in turn to one of the outlets where the spark plug wires connect as the crankshaft turns. Hence, if you're looking at the dizzy and have found the plug wire #1, the next plug wire outlet on the dizzy cap that will line up with the rotor as you turn the crankshaft needs to be connected to cylinder #3 and so on. That is what "firing order 1-3-4-2" means.

    Be careful when you trace the spark plug wires from the dizzy especially if you have one of those with side ports, they can confuse you a bit.

    Let me just give you a helping observation.

    Your engine has four cylinders. The crankshaft will show you if you take a look at it (find a picture) that the four cylinders are paired up. The two at the ends and the two in the middle. Each pair of journals tells you the respective pistons will both be at TDC and BDC at the same time, all the time. Think about the consequences this pairing has and you will understand what the cylinder counting and firing order is trying to short cut for idiots who can't think.

    The same thing is important if you're trying to understand the valve timing and any other basic stuff like that.

    Pretty much the entire blueprint of how the engine works is in the crankshaft.

    Can I ask, why did you start messing around with an engine if you don't understand the basics?
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 27th April 2017 at 11:39 PM.
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    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Can I ask, why did you start messing around with an engine if you don't understand the basics?
    You're right, I don't really understand the basics, but one has to start somewhere. I've had my eyes on a 205 for quite sometime but being a (then) cheap uni student living week to week, it was always out of reach. I finally came across a 205 needing some work, not ideally what I wanted, but took it on. Everyone raves about the mi16/gti6 conversion so it was an opportunity to make one my own.

    Trust me, I question myself everyday as to what/why I'm doing this or how things work. Even though I've managed to get the engine started, I know this is only half the mission and I'm going to face more issues down the track. But with 'light-bulb' moments and the help from you all, I'm hoping to get there one day.

    Thanks for the above 101 lesson. I did mention in #1 that "I apologize in advance for any of the dumb questions I may ask from time to time". So don't say I didn't warn you
    BIGRR and CEyssens like this.
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  22. #72
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Hey, don't sweat it.

    The problem is you started on a difficult process without covering the basics. And the engine isn't even the original for your car, which only adds to the complication and makes you dependent on information from oral sources. That is not a good situation to be in. At least if you aimed for a bog standard engine you could have relied on documentation available from the manufacturer and other more reliable sources than an internet car forum.

    Kinda like trying to learn to swim by crossing the ocean. Try a swimming pool first, see how that goes. At least that way you have a back up.

    The internet is full of people's projects like yours up for sale after they bog down.
    moeozz likes this.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  23. #73
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    Yeah well he knows the situation is difficult and that he dove in head first but he's having a bloody good go at it and already understands more than at least me (not hard mind) as a result. Just do your best help him across the line.
    CEyssens and moeozz like this.

  24. #74
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    I haven't been able to progress as much as I'd like but I did manage to fit the radiator which required trimming of the fan shroud (followed this guide).
    Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-img_8483.jpg

    I wanted to squeeze an air filter in the little space behind the headlight and keep the battery + wash bottle in their original locations. Luckily, my local autobarn had the perfect filter for this (K&N RC-3250). The AFM adapter is the same as that from a VL commodore, which was obviously easy to find.
    The wash bottle made it a very tight fit, so I used a hairdryer to slowly mold the edges inward which created much needed cm's.
    Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-img_8480.jpgFinally bought a 205...now the problems!!-img_8482.jpg

    One thing I noticed between the original induction pipe and the bakerbm version, was the order of the outlets. Can anyone confirm which is correct, or if it makes any difference? I would assume so.. Which goes to the oil filler cap and which to the Idle Control Valve?
    Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-img_8478.jpg
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  25. #75
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    To get an RWC you will need to cover the intake pod somehow. This of course also stops it from sucking engine bay air.
    S3 205 GTI x 4
    2013 Fiesta ST
    MK6 GTI Edition 35

    Previous: 1988 205 GTI Mi16 Turbo, Mk1Golf, MkV GTI , RCS 172 x2 , 306 S16, VW Bora V6 4motion

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