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  1. #26
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    All those companies would make them, they are nothing special.

    That is why I said you need to give them some data. If you measure it with some callipers it will be enough to match even over the phone. If you can take it in, even better.

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    When you want to pull it apart, just leave it in the sun on a hot day for long enough to expand a little bit and it'll come out easier. Still needs a press though and be careful to support closely and press only against the bearing race you want to pull out and steel shafts/housings, not alloy castings or stuff like that.

    Be thankful you don't have to pull the bearings off a Renault 12/17 diff (one of the bearings is also a "special edition" SNR with undersized inner race too, bloody son of a dorongo).
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 9th March 2017 at 03:28 PM.
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  2. #27
    Fellow Frogger! moeozz's Avatar
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    Diff bearings have been sorted and pressed, ended up with the timken JL69349A/JL69310 as seen here.
    Water Pump + Timing belt also replaced.

    I have a few other questions if anyone can lend a hand.

    Gearbox. I want to use my current 205 BE1 gearbox on the mi16 engine. I just want to know whether it a simple plug and play procedure like I think it is?

    • Keep the mi16 clutch and flywheel
    • Bolt on the 205 gearbox with BE1 release bearing
    • Install TDC sensor onto 205 gearbox (taken from original MI16 gearbox)
    • I can use the original be1 speedo casing and sensor.
    • All links and cables remain unchanged.


    Pics of my 2 gearboxes are here
    I'm just a little confused about the differences in push/pull/BE1/BE3 systems I keep reading on about.

    Also, when bypassing the heater circuit with the 205 water distribution adapter, I'll need to block the other end (pipe which runs behind the engine head) which I believe connects to the thermostat? I read somewhere that you need a 1/2" BSP and bung. Stupid question but where can these be purchase from?

    Finally, what have people done with their mi16 oil-coolers? Standard (water cooled) seems to be the ok overall until it comes to changing the filter due to limited space. The UK guys seem keen on reusing the 205 air setup for some reason but involves some tinkering which I'm yet to understand.

    Below are some pictures I found for the different scenarios.
    "This is with everything fitted. Yellow are 205 hoses, red are mi16 hoses"


    "No oil cooler and the metal pipe on the head is removed. 205 water distributor used instead."


    Once this is sorted I can drop it in and move onto the wiring.

    I did warn in post #1 that I may ask stupid questions and I seem to be doing just that Any help would be greatly appreciated!
    Roland likes this.
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  3. #28
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    If you have a look at the plastic 205 distribution block that bolts at the back of the engine, you will see the third outlet is moulded but plugged. The plug has an Allen key hex. You can take it out if you want to use the block but looks like you will need a straight piece of hose instead of the 90 deg elbow.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  4. #29
    Fellow Frogger! moeozz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    If you have a look at the plastic 205 distribution block that bolts at the back of the engine, you will see the third outlet is moulded but plugged. The plug has an Allen key hex. You can take it out if you want to use the block but looks like you will need a straight piece of hose instead of the 90 deg elbow.
    Sorry Shlitz, I'm now more confused. The 405 came with a 5 port (1 is blocked) plastic distribution block, the 205 is aluminium / 4 port (1 blocked). The plan is to use the 205 distro to bypass the hose going to the thermostat housing. I just need a way of blocking it at the thermostat aswell. Are we talking about the same thing or am I just lost?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-img_7784.jpg   Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-img_7785.jpg  
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  5. #30
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Oh, okay, you have an aluminium 205 block. Mine (and I have a few) are all plastic, but pretty much like yours and they don't look like they have a bung you can take out unless you clean them up thoroughly and look in the end.

    I didn't read your post as a clear intention to bypass the thermostat and looking at your diagram above (top one), I thought you needed an extra port in the block and not knowing anything about the 405 block I thought you might not have realised there was another port you could have used on the 205.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  6. #31
    Fellow Frogger! moeozz's Avatar
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    All good. I think the S1 GTIs came with the aluminium blocks. any tips on blocking the other end?

    I installed the Quaife diff last night. As expected the old bearings had clear markings to identify itself. SNR JL69349A cone and JL69310A cup. Luckily I have an equivalent replacement in the Timkens.
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  7. #32
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    You are asking about the thermostat hosing, right? If it is aluminium, I would just have a plate welded there to blank it off, it's the most reliable way rather than stuffing around will all sorts of bodging. And if you want to open it later, a hacksaw should do it.
    phasselhoff likes this.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  8. #33
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I think this is what you mean. Sorry for the delay and misinformation. Remove the bypass tube with the aid of some heat from an oxy torch. The hole is the perfect tapping drill size for 1/2" BSP. Screw in a bung and seal with Loctite 549 or similar. Send it to me if necessary. The result is neat and tidy.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-bypass-pipe.jpg   Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-tapping-thermo-housing.jpg  
    Roland likes this.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  9. #34
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Now I see your problem.

    I would cut off the tubing to a straight length and then extract cold with a tap of convenient size screwed in a few turns or if there is access to the other side with a convenient size washer, a bolt, a spacer and a nut (make a crude but efficient puller). For bunging I would just use a conveniently sized (read slightly oversized to give an interference fit) bit of aluminium driven in cold (use freeze and release) and it's as good as a weld.

    Might be tricky to find something that fits perfectly - I have a lathe and turn these things nicely with a bit of taper and freeze them overnight and then just whack in. You can use Loctite retaining compound, but it's not necessary if the fit is good.
    phasselhoff likes this.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  10. #35
    Fellow Frogger! moeozz's Avatar
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    Thanks guys, will assess the options and have a go.

    I'm still confused on how to plumb the other coolant hoses, especially with the mi16 oil cooler.. I've purchased the baker bm coolant hose kit and I think this assumes that the cooler is bypassed. What have people chosen to do with theirs?

    And can someone please review my gearbox change procedure above, This is the only thing stopping the engine from going in
    Thanks!
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  11. #36
    Fellow Frogger! moeozz's Avatar
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    Hi again, I need some help identifying these wires from the mi16 loom and what/where they connect to. I'm unable to tell the numbers on a few and one is completely destroyed which I'll need to re-terminate. Most of them are located around the gearbox area but #8 is on the very end of the loom and #10-11 are near the injectors/coil.
    Even better, is there some sort of table which lists each wire # and it's purpose? The ecu pinout document I have doesn't go to this detail.

    P.S, the other questions above are also pending. Thanks!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-123.jpg   Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-456.jpg   Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-7.jpg   Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-8.jpg   Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-9.jpg   Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-1011.jpg  

    Last edited by moeozz; 17th March 2017 at 11:20 AM.
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  12. #37
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Don't use the Mi16 oil cooler. Use all 205 bits.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  13. #38
    Fellow Frogger! moeozz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    Don't use the Mi16 oil cooler. Use all 205 bits.
    Please excuse my naivety Peter, can you elaborate on this or link me to a guide for assistance?
    Although past conversions also reference this, some also suggest to remove the mi16 oil sandwhich plate and just bolt the filter straight to the block, bypassing the cooler system altogether. Do you have any experience/suggestions regarding this?

    PS, the car won't be driven daily or tracked if that makes a difference.
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  14. #39
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Having the Mi16 oil cooler makes it very difficult to do an oil change. It's far easier to use all 205 GTi parts for the oil cooling system. ie remote filter and cooler mounted on the gearbox. If you use an 8V aluminium thermostat outlet, the top radiator hose will bolt up as per usual.

    Many XU engines have the oil filter screwed straight to the block. However, any sort of vigorous driving in summer will see the oil temps sore to 120+.

    I haven't had a chance to study your wiring pics. Do you have a copy of the OEM Mi16 engine wiring diagram?

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  15. #40
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    18, 1, 1A - plugs into the +12V distribution/fuse box. Either use 405, S3 GTi or Si model.
    22, 68 ,7 , 9 - AFM
    33, 91 - Idle control valve
    13, 15B - ECU coolant temp
    15, 2R, 3 - throttle position switch
    96, M96 - oxygen sensor heater element
    10, 141 - oxygen sensor signal (shielded wire)
    Plug 5 could be reverse switch on gearbox? Trace to be sure.
    Item 7 - no idea, bodgy aftermarket wiring, you'll need to trace them back
    Plug 1 - the only pair of red wires I recall are the oil temp sender. The insulation is usually badly cracked & hardened from the exhaust heat.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  16. #41
    Fellow Frogger! moeozz's Avatar
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    Thanks Peter. I've connected the 205 thermostat cover and remote oil filter setup. It was a pain maneuvering around the red oil hose and for the life of me I can't figure where the 2 outlets on the filter plate connect to. Any help here?

    Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-img_7902.jpgFinally bought a 205...now the problems!!-img_7903.jpg

    In regards to wiring, could you please send me a copy of the mi16 wiring diagram? The ecu is 261200161.
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  17. #42
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    You need a GTi 205 top radiator hose. There are two types.

  18. #43
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    I think the 2 types are 1343-C3 and the 1343-E9 (double T style)

    I can't recall how my 8v oil cooling system worked to begin with and I can't find any photos prior to removal. However, my top radiator hose is the single type and so is the one from my bakerbm kit. Unless I'm missing something, the previous owner may of bypassed the system at one stage.

    I can either purchase a new double T top radiator hose and delay the project further or bypass the cooling system altogether for the time being and worry about it later.

    Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-img_7923.jpg
    EDIT: Can I retain the 205 remote oil filter setup and leave the cooler pipes disconnected for now? Would it behave in the same way as if it were mounted directly to the block with no cooling, or would oil ooze out from the 2 pipes?

    EDIT 2: or instead of leaving the 2 oil cooler pipes disconnected, I just loop them to each other? Again, what are the consequences of doing this?
    Last edited by moeozz; 20th March 2017 at 10:04 AM.
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  19. #44
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    Engine is finally in! Such a squeeze. I did leave all the ancillaries attached so I'm partly to blame. Had to angle the gearbox down and under the wheel arch, level the other side, bolt up the battery tray and then bolt the mounts.

    The exhaust pipes aren't lining up properly. Is this meant to be difficult and more importantly, bolt up air tight/flush? I'm using the 205 downpipe with Peter's wedge plate.. Picture below is the closest I could get after a 30 minute struggle

    Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-img_7946.jpgFinally bought a 205...now the problems!!-img_7944.jpg
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  20. #45
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    The two types are S1/S2 and S3 GTi. Both have the double pipes, but the arrangement differs depending on the outlet directions of the cooler pipes.

    I would cut your exhaust pipe before the cat. Get the down pipe direction & fit correct and then reweld it back together.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  21. #46
    Fellow Frogger! moeozz's Avatar
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    Was hoping to avoid cutting the exhaust but that can wait til the end now.

    I have a new batch of pictures/stupid questions needing explaining please. I honestly thought I took more than enough photos prior to the engine removal and should've been safe, I was wrong

    The mi16 positive battery terminal looks different to that from the 205. The 205 terminal contained a plug which I believe connected to the sensor loom. Is this correct and how would I rejoin the sensor loom without this terminal on the mi16 loom?
    Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-img_7979.jpg

    I believe these may of came off the 205 BE1 gearbox, though I can't recall where or find it's spot!
    Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-img_7980.jpg

    Where does the hose for this come from?
    Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-img_7985.jpg

    I think this hose goes to the fuel filter (top). What is this circled and can it be removed (NA on 205)?
    Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-img_7986.jpg

    What goes into this hole on the gearbox? I can't recall if anything was connected prior to removal, but it's open. Surely it's not standard/safe like this?
    Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-img_7987.jpg

    Canister purge? One end to the throttle body, the other?
    Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-img_7984.jpg

    If any Victorians are reading this and have a 205 mi16 themselves, I'd really love to see your car to get a better understanding. Or even better, I'd love a hand because at this rate I'm just flooding the forum and going nowhere... and I'm not even upto the Wiring!
    Last edited by moeozz; 22nd March 2017 at 12:09 AM.
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  22. #47
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moeozz View Post
    Was hoping to avoid cutting the exhaust but that can wait til the end now.

    I have a new batch of pictures/stupid questions needing explaining please. I honestly thought I took more than enough photos prior to the engine removal and should've been safe, I was wrong

    The mi16 positive battery terminal looks different to that from the 205. The 205 terminal contained a plug which I believe connected to the sensor loom. Is this correct and how would I rejoin the sensor loom without this terminal on the mi16 loom?
    Find an Mi16, S3 or Si block. Use battery cables from the same.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I believe these may of came off the 205 BE1 gearbox, though I can't recall where or find it's spot!
    Inspection cover and speedo cable retaining pin.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Where does the hose for this come from?
    Fuel return to tank.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I think this hose goes to the fuel filter (top). What is this circled and can it be removed (NA on 205)?
    Leave that off. It's fuel damper.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    What goes into this hole on the gearbox? I can't recall if anything was connected prior to removal, but it's open. Surely it's not standard/safe like this?
    Breather hole cap in BE3, lift up reverse cable in BE1.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Canister purge? One end to the throttle body, the other?
    Carbon canister under LH front guard.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Hope that helps.
    Roland and moeozz like this.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  23. #48
    Fellow Frogger! moeozz's Avatar
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    Thanks Peter. Your wiring diagrams are helping make more sense now. Though it looks like I've hit another roadblock!

    I've searched the mi16 loom multiple times over and cannot find the plug for the TDC flywheel sensor pictured at #6. This sensor was previously on the mi16 gearbox but migrated to the 205 be1 which originally didn't have one.

    I'm not sure about the history of this loom, but I can't see any obvious modifications to it either.
    The Large ECU plug does contain the terminals at pins 47+48, the only way of really knowing where they run is to butcher each wire and run a continuity test which I'd like to avoid.
    Would anyone know how far down the loom it sits and what the plug looks like?
    Thanks

    EDIT: FOUND IT! It was connected to the throttle body, mixed up with the other 3 pin plug.
    I won't be trusting the current connections on the engine, will be taking them all off and confirming them from now
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-456.jpg   Finally bought a 205...now the problems!!-tdc-sensor-wiring.png  
    Last edited by moeozz; 23rd March 2017 at 02:31 PM.
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  24. #49
    Fellow Frogger! moeozz's Avatar
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    Just a few more questions guys :s

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    18, 1, 1A - plugs into the +12V distribution/fuse box. Either use 405, S3 GTi or Si model.
    Does anyone have a photo of this distribution/fuse box and explain why I cannot use that from my S1 205?


    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    Find an Mi16, S3 or Si block. Use battery cables from the same.
    Again, does anyone have a photo of the required part? I find it strange that the positive terminal cable I was given with the MI16 is not suitable for the task. Is it non standard? Can I not use the S1 205 GTI positive cable?



    Finally, I can't find the following 205 sensor loom wires which require splicing to the mi16 loom. I don't believe they aren't numbered on a Phase 1 which doesn't help the nontechnical like me.

    • 'White switched power' (connect to 'Wire #2 on the mi16 loom- Black Connector)
    • 'Ignition Coil Wire' (connect to 'Shielded Green on the mi16 loom- Black connector)
    • 'oil pressure gauge' (connect to 'Wire #6 on the mi16 loom- Brown connector)


    Would appreciate any help sorting the above, thanks!
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

  25. #50
    Fellow Frogger! moeozz's Avatar
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    Is anyone able to assist with the above questions?
    current S1 205 GTI + S3 306 GTI6
    previous s2 306 GTI6

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