Sam's A110 V85 !!!
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Thread: Sam's A110 V85 !!!

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Default Sam's A110 V85 !!!

    Sam and I have been friends for about 5 years. He heard I worked on classic Renaults, and wanted a few things done on his Silver V85. I did quite a bit of work for him, a real tune up and re-set all the front suspension (mod the accident damaged LH front) He was very chuffed and has returned numerous times for services and small stuff. But every time we sit and have a coffee and talk A110, and where he wants to go with it.

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    Sam was a regular visitor while the Gordini was being built, and asked about many things I was doing, in particular playing with a Gordini motor. When the car was in the testing stage, I took him for a drive in it, driving rather moderately, but with the occasional foot to the floor in 2nd and 3rd. He obviously was impressed.

    In the last stages of a few upgrades from old parts on the Gordini, Sam came to visit, and we had a lengthy discussion with pen to paper, of a rebuild of the A110, with a strong 1600 807 and a 5 speed big box. I told him of a recently built 330, with 385 crown and pinion and 365 gears, built by Steven Swan. He went and haggled, and came back the next day telling me to pick the gearbox up.

    And so started the re-build of the A110

    Sam's A110 V85 !!!-2x-a110.jpgSam's A110 V85 !!!-sam-a110-sml.jpg
    Ray geckoeng

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    The first part was to get the car stripped. My son helped strip the car starting on Mon, we had it all in pieces and and stored on the parts shelves and the roller frames attached by Fri afternoon.

    As you can see the Mexican V85, early version, has almost no fender flares, and the Alpine wheels Sam had bought would not fit inside the arches. So with a set of Simon Auto flares I started on the body. They were trimmed to make then easy to attach to the body, and then marked up to position them correctly. I drilled them for 5mm pop rivets, which also acted as locating points. Sanded all the mating faces with the small disc grinder, mixed a batch of epoxy, enough for each fender attachment at a time. Glued the arch flares to the body and pop riveted them in final position. Glass fiber lamination then to make the new arches part of the body, inside and out. It was also time to do all the body repairs where it had been accident damaged and indiscriminate drilling and cutting had been done to make things seem to fit.

    Sam and I agreed that the car would run a front radiator, and that it would be a bit bigger than normal, because of our summer heat in the west. I made an insert "shark mouth" to go just under the number plate in the front bodywork, to allow air into the front chamber. Then with a timber template of the Radiator, went about making the radiator chamber, leaving room for the battery and the air would exit into the front suspension chamber.There was a lot of glass fiber repair needed in the fuel tank area, as well as removal of the bitumen type paint that had been used. Terrible stuff.

    Everything had been removed from the dash, which had been treated very badly over the years. We decided we would start with a clean slate, so all the holes for switches and lights and controls were filled in, and all the instrument holes were repaired. The complete inside was power sanded free of the bitumen sealer paint, and then the floors were reinforce laid with 2 layers of 600 grm glass fibre, as they were in very poor condition. I also cut the hatch through to the engine compartment, so you would have access to the water pump and the drive belt from the cam extension. My son, very doggedly cleaned all the inside cabin so it could be painted properly.

    I then took to shaping all the new fender arches to get all the lines to blend with the original body, and clean and shape all the inner fenders, so they would be relatively smooth.

    After four and a half weeks the body was ready to go to the body man for final shaping and preparation for paint.

    Sam's A110 V85 !!!-cut-glued-extended-rear-sml.jpgSam's A110 V85 !!!-cut-glued-front-sml.jpgSam's A110 V85 !!!-front-arch-lh-shaped-sml.jpgSam's A110 V85 !!!-front-fender-sanded.jpgSam's A110 V85 !!!-front-hole-cut.jpg
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    Ray geckoeng

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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    More pictures related to #2 :

    Sam's A110 V85 !!!-rad-chamber-sml.jpgSam's A110 V85 !!!-shark-mouth-fitted-sml.jpgSam's A110 V85 !!!-floor-repair.jpgSam's A110 V85 !!!-final-body-work.jpgSam's A110 V85 !!!-a110-paint-1-sml.jpg
    Ray geckoeng

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    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    And Thurs last week the body came back from the paint shop :

    Sam's A110 V85 !!!-paint-5.jpgSam's A110 V85 !!!-paint-2.jpgSam's A110 V85 !!!-paint-3.jpgSam's A110 V85 !!!-paint-4.jpg
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    Ray geckoeng

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    Fellow Frogger! rubyalpine's Avatar
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    Nice colour. I like your work.

    Henry
    When I find my feet,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I'll know where I stand!

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    Fellow Frogger! SilverGTi_6's Avatar
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    Beautiful.
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    Fellow Frogger! potentz's Avatar
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    great work.ray

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Thank you Guys for your comments. When you build not every body who enjoys the cars gets to see them as they progress. This one is as you see it. I am into the motor at the moment getting all the parts right for the assembly. And I am preparing for a dummy installation of the motor and gearbox, so I can do the chassis mods and gear linkage. and new rear engine mounts. Helps to plan ahead so there is no hectic work during assembly. It all goes together like at the factory.
    Ray geckoeng

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    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    By the way, I was going through pictures on my "C" drive, where I very seldom save stuff. And came across a bad picture from my phone. With a bit of work on Photoshop it looks decent and it is part of the project.

    The "shark mouth" for the radiator inlet. I made a plug of what was required and then a split mould from that and out comes a product part.

    There no doubt will be more like this.
    Ray

    Sam's A110 V85 !!!-20150817_123511.jpg
    Last edited by geckoeng; 7th March 2016 at 04:58 PM.
    Ray geckoeng

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Anyone would think you've done this sort of work before Ray!

    I think I'm grateful I didn't know about that gearbox. I think....

    Very nice.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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  11. #11
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Hi John,
    It has been a long apprenticeship, and to be honest I have enjoyed it very much. I have worked with some very creative people and some that have a very different way of looking at things, and their input into what I do is also there. I originally was into building Hot Rods, but found them too special, and good ideas cost a lot of money, and then you are scared driving it. Then I got into Off-Road racing, and that was a lot of fun, but a lot of work and maintenance. I have always had a love for GT cars, and when I went to the UK and worked for a friend Fred Goddard, I knew where I was at, LeMans sports cars and GT cars. I was totally in my element. Then Ascari made me an offer to work in their "toy box". And 6 years in that element and exposure and the freedom to expand ones mind was amazing.

    So that is what I try to bring to the classics I grew up with and totally enjoyed. I try and take all the old stuff i liked and bring it to what I know now, and still keep it simple and classic.

    I hope my Dauphine will show exactly this philosophy, and when I get back to it, I will start a thread.

    Take Care, Ray

    PS. John, the fancy gearbox was in my workshop most of the time, stored in its box under the Dauph.
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    Ray geckoeng

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  12. #12
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    It was? I think my wife is grateful that you didn't tell me...

    I think you are saying also that apprenticeships never end. I'm a rank amateur, with some experience for sure, but I learn all the time.

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
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    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
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    Quote Originally Posted by geckoeng View Post
    And Thurs last week the body came back from the paint shop :

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    Hi Ray and Sam
    I love what you are doing with your Alpine, it looks great in the Blue colour and with the front mounted radiator and shaped guards etc.
    Keep up the good work with plenty of details on the motor rebuild. If you need any info please let me know as I have done this upgrade to my car.
    Rob Sealey

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Sealey View Post
    Hi Ray and Sam
    I love what you are doing with your Alpine, it looks great in the Blue colour and with the front mounted radiator and shaped guards etc.
    Keep up the good work with plenty of details on the motor rebuild. If you need any info please let me know as I have done this upgrade to my car.
    Rob Sealey
    Ditto - Looking good Ray and Sam. Hope my old wheels fit well. I'll email you an article with photos that I sent off to Mille Miles Alpine magazine which you might find useful. Unfortunately, it was not published. The article deals with installation of a front radiator in my A110. It is too large to be uploaded here. I'll send to Rob as well.
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  15. #15
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Hi "bazzamac"
    It was your wheels that caused all the trauma.

    But I do think they will fit now. There was a lot of measuring off of Tom's A110 to get the final position of the arches. And we feel that they will look better than the original, as ours run level with the ground on the back.?????????

    Thanks for the support.

    Ray
    Ray geckoeng

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  16. #16
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    Sorry about that. Here is a photo of my car when on display at Rolfe Renault dealership last year - you can see that the rear has fairly wide hips that accommodated my original wheels. I am unable to email the article I spoke about in my previous post as it occupies too much memory so will put it on a disc and mail it to Sam and Rob.

    Sam's A110 V85 !!!-img_2075.jpg
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    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    "bazamac"
    Nice looking A110. Back bulges are quite big, but wheel is wide !!

    Take care,
    Ray
    Ray geckoeng

    Think Old, But Run Modern !!

  18. #18
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    Awesome nice work - I've always wanted one of these cars - maybe one day, but 2 & 1/2 Restorations to complete before I can think about an addition to the fleet :-/
    may all your plans be cunning ones,
    Baldrick,

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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    The Gearbox

    As I said in the beginning the gearbox is a Steven Swan unit. Sam came about it the long way around.

    Towards the end of 2013, Tom Riley, who I have done quite a bit of work for on his Renault Squad, asked about building a “big 5 speed”. I told him all the parts have to be sourced in the UK or Europe, and I knew a very good box builder who is quite experienced at these. At the time there was a 17G being advertised for sale in north WA. It was a bit pricey as Tom wanted it for parts for his 17G (replica rally car) car that had been sitting with a broken crownwheel and pinion. And he wanted the genuine rear axle and brakes as well, and actually the body would be better than his.

    So A few months went by and he phoned the guy to find out if the car was still for sale, there had been no contacts for the initial advert, so Tom offered him ridiculous money and he agreed. Next day it was on a truck to Perth, and by the next weekend the engine and gearbox was out. And a week later the box was packed with a 330 casing, and on its way to Scotland. That week I found a R5 385 in the UK at a bit of a premium price, my brother went and inspected it, paid the money and put it on a courier to Scotland as well.

    Steven did the conversion for us and the box came back to WA. But in the mean time Tom had bought a big box of bits, with a newly built 330 with 385 internals, built in Oz, and most of the parts to build a R5 A/G motor. So this was started for assembly for Tom’s recently resprayed , blue, A110.

    The 330-365-385, sat in its box under my Dauph in the workshop. For another day !!!

    Sam's A110 V85 !!!-swan-gearbox.jpgSam's A110 V85 !!!-g-box-stand.jpgSam's A110 V85 !!!-g-box-lh-side.jpg
    Ray geckoeng

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    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Gearbox Part 2

    The gearbox was a major part of the build for Sam’s A110, and it needed final assembly of the bell housing and spigot shaft when it came back to me. So I started all that last week.

    The bell housing was the important part as it needed to be converted for LH side clutch cable. So out of 3 units I put together a full set of bits to build a good mechanism with new bushes and everything. First I had to find my tool for removing the pins on the fork units. I also knocked out the bearing tube, so I could machine out the back for a locally available spigot shaft seal. Thrust bearings are difficult to find in Oz, and I had a new Merc unit, which has the same bearing as the R16 type, round face. Pressed the ones apart and made the unit I wanted for the R16, with a pressure plate without the triangle plate, where it engages straight onto the fingers.

    The 2 bolt holes need to be marked and drilled on the top of the 330 flange to the bell housing. Eventually it was time to assemble all the bits together. It seems all the guys that have built these things over the years communicate with each other, as I thought I would need to drill and tap a small hole in the side of the casing to be able to knock the spigot shaft roll pin in on assembly. And there was a hole with a small plug in it done already. Well done Steve. I had extended the fitted length of the spigot, by the method we used in ZA. Knock the spigot out of the splined sleeve 8mm (and tack weld), and redrill the roll pin holes 6mm outwards, giving you 14mm extension (fitted). You actually require 18mm, but as long as the spigot shaft is in sufficiently in the spigot bearing I have found it works well.

    All that done and the bell housing can be fitted to the gearbox casings, with a gasket and some sealer.

    I have also modified the cross member mounts for their offset, and the side mount blocks attachment brackets.

    Sam's A110 V85 !!!-gearbox-side-mounts.jpgSam's A110 V85 !!!-gearbox-crossmember-mount-off-set.jpgSam's A110 V85 !!!-g-box-bell-house.jpg
    Ray geckoeng

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    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Wiper Motor Conversion
    Last week was also the wiper mechanism rebuild. It is now converted to a 2 speed R12 unit with isolation mounting as well. That is also the request for the 2 speed wiper switch which a few people have been good enough to supply, so I will have spares as well. Or at least parts to build one good one. All works very well, just need to fit to the car. Will need to do a small grinding spot to clear the motor in one place under the dash. The remains of the old motor can be seen, it just fell apart when we took it out.

    Sam's A110 V85 !!!-a110-2-speed-wiper.jpg
    Last edited by geckoeng; 24th March 2016 at 08:09 AM.
    Ray geckoeng

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  22. #22
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geckoeng View Post
    The Gearbox

    The 330-365-385, sat in its box under my Dauph in the workshop. For another day !!!

    I should have visited more often! I might have noticed it....
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    The Motor Preliminary

    Ok Sam wanted a 1600/807 type motor, but with these motors there is always the question of the rear mount, and how you mount to the block. And the blocks are paper seals on the liners, and protrusion height (which I have never had problems with), but I do like the “O”ring concept. In particular after working on late R5 1400 and then the R5 Mk2 and the R9/11. So I made the decision to go with a 841 or 843. Funny I came up with 2 841 blocks that had been built with cross-flow heads. One was an 807 head and the other was a 843. Now for Sam we wanted a somewhat authentic setup so it was to go with an 807, and I wanted the 843 for my Dauph, as I wanted away from the water pump at the front of the head, and at the timing chain end at the back of the head. (Reason will come in the Dauph thread, later). But they also have the crank pulley at the timing chain end, so you can have an alternator on the back, and have the magnetic pickup for the electronic ignition.

    The rear mounts are easy to convert the R8/10 unit. Cut off the existing block mount tabs and make new to connect to the threaded bosses on the block of the 841 at the timing chain end. The only difficult part is getting the outside mount holes to correspond to the crank centerline, as in the Sierra block mounting. And if it is right the cross member is 40mm further back, which necessitates moving the mounts back in the frame 40mm. When I used to do this conversion in ZA we were able to get oval tube 50x25 3mm wall, and I would heat bend it to suit the offset of the side mountings on the chassis. And it coupled to a mount plate on the timing cover bolts, similar set up to the factory, but on the outside of the timing cover. And I never had to deal with a crank pulley. How we progress !!!!!

    Side Bar :
    With the 2 841 motors the one had a shortened 807 reground cam, but the other had a reground 841 cam, but with the 807 head. This gave me real confusion, and my cam grinder was perplexed as well. It was all discussed in a AF thread. Eventually it was realised that the cam was wrong for an 807 type head, because of the different cam action for the “hemi” head. You need to keep your eyes open and wits working all the time.
    Sam's A110 V85 !!!-dscn0086.jpgSam's A110 V85 !!!-dscn0080.jpgSam's A110 V85 !!!-dscn0081.jpgSam's A110 V85 !!!-dscn0082.jpgSam's A110 V85 !!!-dscn0083.jpgSam's A110 V85 !!!-dscn0084.jpgSam's A110 V85 !!!-dscn0085.jpg
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    Ray geckoeng

    Think Old, But Run Modern !!

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Motor Prelim Cont.:
    The cylinder head needed to be fitted with seats for 43mm inlets and 37mm exhausts valves. Then the inlet and exhaust ports were scribed on the relevant faces and the enlargement of the ports begun. Even to this day it is still laborious. The exhausts are enlarged 2mm on the roof of the port, and the inlets are 3mm bigger in diam. And the port is raised 1.5mm, so you take 3mm out of the roof and non of the floor, only blend into it. When all the cutting is done, then the final profiling with a course emery flapper wheel is done to get rid of any bumps in the walls of the port, and the final blending of the port into the valve pocket. I actually enjoy finishing the port job as then you see the final shape take place. For street motors I use #60 grit for my final cleaning, it leaves enough of a rough surface to allow slow moving fuel mist to be gathered back into the vapour flow at slow engine speeds.

    The inlet manifolds needed a lot of work to blend from the 45mm DCOE to the new ports, about 2mm off of the internal faces, about 4mm total.

    The crank was polished on the rough surfaces, and the faces rotating into the direction of rotation are all given a “parabolic shape”, and the trailing edges are attempted to be given a tapered shape. The whole effect of smoothing and shaping the rotating forms, I have on good authority will give you about 3hp on a 4 cylinder motor. It has something to do with rotating in the oil mist cloud, and not retaining excessive oil on the rotating mass.

    All the conn rods are brand new Fuego Turbo units and needed the big ends weight balanced, there was 3.5 grams difference between the lightest and heaviest. And 1 gram on the small ends. All of the forged pistons were exactly the same.

    All the spacer springs are removed from the rocker shafts and the assembly fitted to the head you will be using, and then I turn up collars for the replacement of the springs, with 0.1mm clearance in the gap. These need to be individually made, as there is no standard size gap. They are also scribed inlet “+” number and exhaust “-“number so in future servicing they are put back in the correct spot.

    To finish this all off, the piston crown volumes and the combustion chamber volumes are all measured, and the compression ratio calculated. And with this motor the head needs 1.2mm skim to bring it to 10.5 : 1 CR.
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    Think Old, But Run Modern !!

  25. #25
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    The crank looks good Ray. May I suggest you take a close look at the surface on the alloy sump. I had one that needed machining to obtain a flat surface to the block. It had been machined and initially appeared to be fine until we checked more closely. It would have been a pain if the thing leaked after it was all assembled.

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