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Thread: Oh F**K, What have I done

  1. #1
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    Default Oh F**K, What have I done

    As posted elsewhere, I ,a bear with very little mechanical brain, have decided to attempt the resto of my Light 15.
    First job was to clean the shed and make room.
    Done!
    Second job: Get car into shed!'Requires a tow, UP the hill, then coast into shed.
    Oh yeah!!
    Left rear wheel is frozen solid, unbeknown to either me , driving the 4WD, or mate "Steering"
    Car has a mind of its own, and lodges gently into a large stringy bark, denting the rt front mudguard, but, thankfully, not terminally.
    Much swearing, sweating and grunting and car "snigged" off tree, and some half hearted efforts to free the bloody wheel merely result in a "flat" on that tyre.
    Today is the day I attempt, under instruction, to free up the wheel!!

    To be continued..........................

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  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    the brakes will be seized. You will need a drum puller to get the drum off .................... Though if the brakes are seized that drum isn't coming off .... The traction guys might have some suggestions on freeing up the brakes if you ask up in the Citroen section where they are more likely to see it.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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  3. #3
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    Icon14 Heat and cool brake drum surface to loosen up rust.

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    the brakes will be seized. You will need a drum puller to get the drum off .................... Though if the brakes are seized that drum isn't coming off .... The traction guys might have some suggestions on freeing up the brakes if you ask up in the Citroen section where they are more likely to see it.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Exvet if you have access to oxy acetylene kit, warm the brake drum evenly, no need to get it red hot!! Let it cool, then tap lightly on the peripheral diameter with a small hammer, that will loosen the rust/adhesion of the brake material to the internal part of the drum, slacken off the brake shoe if you can, and then rotate the wheel back and forwards with the wheel just off the ground. Repeat the process until the wheel rotates freely.

    Plumbers MAP or propane torch may give sufficient heat to do the same thing.

    Regards

    Ken

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    Thanks, Ken, that's the advice my "supervising friend" has given.
    Too many visitors to get at it today!

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Tell the visitors to nick off; you've serious work to do!

    And don't pull anything apart until you've set up a system for project managing. I got the Spitfire across the line by a combination of brute cash and accrued experience but it would have broken many people, and that was quite a "lightweight" restoration.

    First concrete step to me, is achieving mobility; initially as a roller, then a driver.
    Last edited by addo; 21st May 2015 at 06:06 PM.
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  6. #6
    COL
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    Take lots of pics before you pull things apart, and also during the dismantling phase.

    Makes life a lot easier when you come to put it back together again, especially if your memory is not good.
    Regards Col

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    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    Or you could just rip into it and pull everything apart and shove them in boxes, under beds etc. then spend a bucket load of money getting the chassis blasted and painted, new suspension, bearings and a set of tyres.

    Get the seats recovered and the engine rebuilt making sure to spend at least 25k in the process and then let the project sit for 4-10 years.

    Then sell it on ebay as an abandoned project for a couple of thousand bucks.

    Seems to work for many.

    ebay is littered with them..

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    the famous 18E pug206gti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 59 Floride View Post
    Or you could just rip into it and pull everything apart and shove them in boxes, under beds etc. then spend a bucket load of money getting the chassis blasted and painted, new suspension, bearings and a set of tyres.
    Get the seats recovered and the engine rebuilt making sure to spend at least 25k in the process and then let the project sit for 4-10 years.
    Then sell it on ebay as an abandoned project for a couple of thousand bucks.
    Seems to work for many.
    ebay is littered with them..
    G'day,
    or, you could do it properly.
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    regards,
    Les W.


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  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! Dano's Avatar
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    Any starting photos so we can see how your progressing.

    Enjoy the journey, it can be like riding a roller coaster, lots of enjoyment and frightening at the same time.

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    Icon14 Project order list of things to be done. very important to the restorer.

    Some good information passed on above, one thing I would say is to outline your project and the order you intend to complete it, and yes, take plenty of photos, draw diagrams as you strip down parts, that will be of enormous help later when you actually start assembling. The hard part as Addo and Col know, is when you finally get to assemble and complete the car, your listing and sequence of things that must be done in order to keep on schedule will become increasingly important. Never get discouraged and never bypass a job because it is too hard to tackle in the listed order as some easier job beckons.

    If you keep on putting aside the harder jobs, then you will end up in the weary tired future with boxes of easy stuff done, but all the hard jobs you should have done, waiting to break your spirit and will not go away. Not only that, over time those hard jobs will always become more expensive to complete, and just about when you have run out of money and enthusiasm. At that time the old saying about the last straw that breaks the camels back has new meaning as you struggle to finish, but if you do each listed job in the order you originally decided, it gets much easier and the project seems to almost complete itself.

    Very rewarding to learn and do things along the way and the logical progression to a completed car is a real joy especially after you complete it.

    If one was looking for the easy way to owning a restored car, just look around for a pristine finished restoration. That owner who laboured long to complete I,t will never recover the cost of their labours and probably won't even recover all that was spent in dribs and drabs to achieve the result, but don't let me discourage you, as the eventual praise you get for your end result will make up for the effort and money expended, a wonderful joy.

    I mostly keep receipts for work done by professionals where needed, but have never been one to keep account of the hours and every dollar spent in the restoration journey, the experience alone is the justification. IMHO!

    Ken
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  11. #11
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    I don't know how to use a digital camera, but I DO know how to write labels!!

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 59 Floride View Post
    Or you could just rip into it and pull everything apart and shove them in boxes, under beds etc. then spend a bucket load of money getting the chassis blasted and painted, new suspension, bearings and a set of tyres.

    Get the seats recovered and the engine rebuilt making sure to spend at least 25k in the process and then let the project sit for 4-10 years.

    Then sell it on ebay as an abandoned project for a couple of thousand bucks.

    Seems to work for many.

    ebay is littered with them..
    You need to tinker with some Citroens.... The engineering in them is quite remarkable. The Traction ... designed and built in the early 30's is a remarkable design for it's time. There is no chassis...



    So no running boards, it's FWD too. That's why it so low and sleek for such an old car ... It's torsion bar suspension gives it true sports car like handling (that's why they were known as the "getaway car" in there time... 'cos it was the car you stole if you needed a getaway car ... Though not fast, they outhandled everything else in there time).

    https://www.classicdriver.com/en/art...-cars-all-time

    you find reference to it being the favored get-away car for the French resistance during the Second World War and became a favored chase car for the German military if you do some reading up on one using google.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  13. #13
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    If you look at the weather our man is enjoying, he needs a project boat instead.

    The animals went in two by two,
    The elephant and the kangaroo
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  14. #14
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    the brakes will be seized. You will need a drum puller to get the drum off .................... Though if the brakes are seized that drum isn't coming off .... The traction guys might have some suggestions on freeing up the brakes if you ask up in the Citroen section where they are more likely to see it.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Conversely the hand brake cable may be seized on! Disconnect the hand brake cable from its fixings on the control bar and the suspension mounting tube and give the sheath a really good flexing to break up any seized spots. the cable may free up and allow the brake shoes to release from the drum. Also to assist turn the adjusters back with a 17mm spanner turning each so that the spanner handle goes DOWN. Up will tighten!
    The adjusters may require a good soaking with Penetrine!
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    Cheers Gerry

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    Fellow Frogger! ds21bvh's Avatar
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    Exvet...

    I think it's really important to assess the car and then organise all the key parts (difficult to get) you need before undoing a single bolt...

    But IMHO - there is one rule to restoration which I always stick to now (through bitter experience) given to me by a fellow Citroenist.

    "Restore as you diss-assemble" - don't pull the whole car apart at once. So if you pull the bumpers off - restore them and then put them away, same for the suspension units, same for the interior, same for the electrics etc. etc.

    You are then restoring sub sections of the car at a time, less reliance on memory, better for moral and reassembly issues only halt a part of the project not the whole project.

    By the time you get to the bare chassis more than half the job is done, and you then know that when you finish the hardest part (the bodywork) you are reassembling - which again is good for your headspace.

    Pulling it all apart in a hurry and then being overwhelmed with the amount of work to get it back together is the killer for many.

    Cheers,

    Mark...
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    yep one by one, the real trick is planning parts needed in advance so you keep the flow. unless you have a massive budget to just go all out and buy whatever takes your fancy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    ...
    But IMHO - there is one rule to restoration ....
    Yes, it's to never add up all the costs. You really don't ever want to know!

    Fortunately, Traction parts are well serviced and there should be few major delays except, perhaps, for some of the unique Slough items that the Euro suppliers probably can't help with.

    With the stuck drum, you may also be able to remove the bolts for the wheel cylinder and that may help.
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  18. #18
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    BTW there is no puller used to remove a rear brake drum on the later cruciform axles ( from 1936 onward ). The earlier tubular rear axle had tapered stubs similar to the front axle and used the same hub puller_____ they were a pain in the proverbial ****. Thank god we do not see these cars often I have only seen one in all my TA years and that was a rusted out wreck of a 7A at Gladysdale Vic.
    Wheel bearings are Timken tapered rollers, and should be removable by hand!
    Cheers Gerry

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    Have the wheel off (car on axle stands).Have given the seized drum a severe "tapping" with a lightish hammer, attempted rotation with a lever, and discovered that my gas burner is buggered.
    Replacement to be obtained tomorrow.

    Thank you all for the sage advice. All duly noted and passed on to my "supervising friend", who agrees with most of it.

    I shall continue the saga as and when I actually achieve anything, but really need a better workshop manual than my Brooklands version.
    Any suggestions??

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Can be downloaded from the net. See https://sites.google.com/site/citroenpublicationslist/
    Cheers Gerry

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    Progress!!

    Got the rear wheel free by removing the drum AND the brake shoes as couldn't free it up any other way--all advice from you blokes followed, and even fluent swearing didn't help!!

    She's in the shed. stripped of doors, bonnet and boot as well as upholstery.

    I'd have to say that the "restoration" carried out originally must have been done on an absolute shoe-string budget, and pretty bloody poorly at that.
    Odd bolts and nuts, cheap paint, overspray, WOOD SCREWS into metal, Just bloody awful, but there doesn't seem to be too much "metal moth" and everything appears to be there.

    I'll soak the bolts that hold the guards on in Penetrene, and, with a bit of luck, will get them off tomorrow.

    I'm off and running!! Wish me luck.

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    This promises to be an enjoyable thread, particularly for all us "armchair restorers". Also, everyone just loves progress photos!

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    My "supervising friend"* came today to view the carnage.
    He approves of my efforts!!!
    Says the body is in pretty good shape, but needs to be cleaned down to bare metal as there are pin-hole sized rust spots all over it.
    Have to WD40 all the mudguard bolts, remove the radiator and grille while SF recovers from a carpal tunnel op this arvo.

    *(He's a highly skilled panel beater and spray painter, and he has contacts all over the motor industry. Good bloke to know!!)

    The rear window is very badly scratched. Do I just go to a glass place for a new one, or is there somewhere in Aus that I could approach? The Froggie company, melun wotzit, charges serious money to send stuff!

  24. #24
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Well done! Sounds like good progress to me .... We still need pictures though
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Well done! Sounds like good progress to me .... We still need pictures though
    Otherwise it never happened!
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