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Thread: Cam & Pat's 205 Race Car

  1. #26
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Can recommend the velo seats, good value and mine has lasted well

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    Adrian Wuillemin

  2. #27
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    I can also recommend Velo, good seats and well priced.

  3. #28
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    Yep, got a Velo GP90 going into my car as well, looking forward to getting it on the track.

    Best of luck gents.
    Michael



    1987 Peugeot 205 GTI
    Build Thread:
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...ti6-build.html

  4. #29
    1000+ Posts parry's Avatar
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    What class are you thinking of running?
    Have you thought of acid dipping the car to remove all weight from sound deadening etc.

    Lessons I have learnt along the way...

    Suspension is critical so are brakes. Replicate my setup at minimum..Talk to Collin about his front subframe setup..but $$$$
    Make sure you have a good side brace on the rollcage, so then you can lighten doors.
    Talk to me before you decide on a race dash....New stuff on the market, not all the same....
    Neg camber, neg camber! Front and rear
    90 205 Gti Cherry Red(Track Car)
    2009 207gti
    1985 505gti (Shitbox Rally) Sold

    PBs:

    Oran Park: 1:27:9
    Wakefield: 1:05.6 (July 2015)
    Eastern Creek: 1:54 (8v) 1:48 (16V)
    Mt Huntley: 34.44 (2004 stock 205)
    Ringwood: 35.06 (30/10/2005)
    Winton: 1:33.6 (2017)

  5. #30
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Not too many secrets so early Parry. You need to drip feed them, else they'll start doing 1:10's out of the box.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  6. #31
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    No class as of yet. (I think)

    Very keen to make it light as possible. We are planning on spending the day under the car with a wire wheel removing the sound dampening etc. everything that's not messes art is going. We have an 'on site' meeting with Huw on Thursday to discuss cage. Doors will be super light, no frame or bars in the door, no glass either just bar minimum. Will also cut out any excess metal on the shell where not needed. No special bonnet or hatch lid as yet. That's stage 2.

    Suspension is going to be our main focus for the first 12 months. Setting up the chassis and playing with different setups and LEARNING!

    Are you boys keen for the Pedal Boxes?

    Was gutted watching you on the Tv when the throttle cable snapped Parry!

    Pete, 1:10 will be hard with a Standard motor... Stage 2 will be very interesting though!

    When is the next CSCA round?

  7. #32
    1000+ Posts parry's Avatar
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    March 22nd for Peter and Adrian at Wakefield Park
    90 205 Gti Cherry Red(Track Car)
    2009 207gti
    1985 505gti (Shitbox Rally) Sold

    PBs:

    Oran Park: 1:27:9
    Wakefield: 1:05.6 (July 2015)
    Eastern Creek: 1:54 (8v) 1:48 (16V)
    Mt Huntley: 34.44 (2004 stock 205)
    Ringwood: 35.06 (30/10/2005)
    Winton: 1:33.6 (2017)

  8. #33
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    Mostly CAMS 3J Improved Production at a state (maybe national) level for safety gear and chassis stiffening. But then free for CSCA and MRA in the suspension department ie not elostomeric bushes but rosejoints.
    205 gti-6

    205 track car build in progress http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

  9. #34
    1000+ Posts 504-504-504's Avatar
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    Just out of curiosity, would anyone be interested in fibre-glass rear hatch or even grill/bonnet/guards combination?
    Not sure what regulations these would comply with.

    Paul.

  10. #35
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Could be! What about carbon?

  11. #36
    1000+ Posts parry's Avatar
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    For 3J you might have to weigh in at 110kg better check
    90 205 Gti Cherry Red(Track Car)
    2009 207gti
    1985 505gti (Shitbox Rally) Sold

    PBs:

    Oran Park: 1:27:9
    Wakefield: 1:05.6 (July 2015)
    Eastern Creek: 1:54 (8v) 1:48 (16V)
    Mt Huntley: 34.44 (2004 stock 205)
    Ringwood: 35.06 (30/10/2005)
    Winton: 1:33.6 (2017)

  12. #37
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Definitely for Improved Production you need to weigh in at 1100Kg if you put a 16V in a 205 shell.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  13. #38
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    I think you'll find Pat and Cam don't want to restrict themselves to CSCA and MRA long term.

    Building the car 3J compliant allows them to run in MRA up against all the Cat 3 cars mixed together and if they want to remove the weight or change from elastomeric to heim joint suspension or other such modifications for those events, it's a change that isn't permanent.

    If they go outside that scope, i.e. cutting up the car to fit rear shock towers, rollcage extensions into the engine bay, etc, if they want to race in a CAMS series, they will get stuck in 3D sports sedans where they will never make the 730kg weight break and will be getting lapped 2-3 times by the 6L Chev spaceframe cars in a 8-12 lap race.

    There is a difference between building a race a car for the sake of it and building one with the aim of winning a championship. Realistically 3J Improved Production is the category the car is most suited to and has the potential to win. Weight break is 1040kg for late model.
    Last edited by Bluey; 4th March 2015 at 04:20 PM.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    I think you'll find Pat and Cam don't want to restrict themselves to CSCA and MRA long term.

    Building the car 3J compliant allows them to run in MRA up against all the Cat 3 cars mixed together and if they want to remove the weight or change from elastomeric to heim joint suspension or other such modifications for those events, it's a change that isn't permanent.

    If they go outside that scope, i.e. cutting up the car to fit rear shock towers, rollcage extensions into the engine bay, etc, if they want to race in a CAMS series, they will get stuck in 3D sports sedans where they will never make the 730kg weight break and will be getting lapped 2-3 times by the 6L Chev spaceframe cars in a 8-12 lap race.

    There is a difference between building a race a car for the sake of it and building one with the aim of winning a championship. Realistically 3J Improved Production is the category the car is most suited to and has the potential to win. Weight break is 1040kg.

    In theory you could run a 205 as a early model and thus engine changes and no weight restriction applies. I would suggest you may need to contact IPRA to confirm. 1/1/86 is the cut off date for early / late. The 205 was built in 1984 (but not imported to Aust till 1987) so you may need to lobby that!

    Thus you could build a Parry-esq car, and as long as you maintained suspension pick up points and the rear beam then 3J could be an option. This is good for racing and resale etc.

    If you only want to do super sprints and non cams events (racing) then go wild! I have always tried to build cars that fit within a class - I find it keeps me on a defined track and has an end goal. Otherwise I wander to much change my mind and the result is over spending with no completion.

    As for body shell prep - I reckon you are on the right line - knock the deadner off with a wire wheel (Use eye protection!!!) and then get it sand blasted. I personally don't like acid dipping as the acid can stay in the chassis tubes and cavities. The get it etch primed. Weld and fit cage etc.

    Good Luck
    Current Stable
    2018 Mercedes Vito
    Renault Megane 225 Cup
    1997 306 formula 2 kit car (Gravel Rally Car)
    Ford Sierra XR4ti
    Ford Sierra Cosworth (Track Car)
    1971 Mini Clubman

    rcuit Car
    Previous Pugs
    87,88,89 and 1990 205 GTI
    2007 407 HDI
    1989 405 Mi 16
    1998 306 XSI
    1991 405 Mi16
    1996 306 S16

  15. #40
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 205 Maxi View Post
    As for body shell prep - I reckon you are on the right line - knock the deadner off with a wire wheel (Use eye protection!!!) and then get it sand blasted.
    I've found a heat gun and scraper a more productive method of removal.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  16. #41
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    I was told after filling the shed up with smoke using the heat gun method was to apply dry ice and the stuff is meant to flake off easily. Of course you'd need to put it on a rotisserie to do the underneath.
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 172hp atw


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...ic=143279&st=0

    Lap times-
    Sandown 1 27.9
    Phillip Island 1 53.8

    Previous Frenchies-
    1988 205Gti
    1998 306 GTi6
    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Trak Yellow
    1975 Renault 5 Guernsey, Channel Islands
    1972 Renault 4 Guernsey, Channel Islands

  17. #42
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    "Realistically 3J Improved Production is the category the car is most suited to and has the potential to win. Weight break is 1040kg"

    The current front runnning cars in improved production are doing 1.04 laps at wakefield and have a massive budget to operate.

    I built my car to suit improved production and have for a long time now kept it that way. I am at the limit of what you can do within the rules and the car does 1.11's. I am about to change the car, make it handle and it will no longer by IPRA legal.

    If you want to win improved production, build a honda civic and save yourself a fortune.

    if you want to build a car to run MRA / Supersprints / Hillclimbs and generally have some fun, build the 205 because you love the 205.

    They are not viable due to the back suspension set up.

    Just my 2 cents worth.
    Adrian Wuillemin

  18. #43
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I have no interest in IPRA. The Supersprint and MRA rounds are enough for me. There's only so much you can do.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  19. #44
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Whats your limiting factor at the monent Adrian? Hp or chassis? Combo of both?

    If you were to run 1.04-5 what are the thing you would do differently starting from scratch?

    We are not building the car to bust records from day 1. Just want to do the right modifications and developments to get the maximum possible within our budget. Stage 2 of our build will have a fairly powerful motor and a few other nice things to cope with it all. Thats when the budget opens up when I become a millionaire!! Ha



    Cam

  20. #45
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    [QUOTE=cam85;1332231]Whats your limiting factor at the monent Adrian? Hp or chassis? Combo of both? Both.

    Reliable horspeower without oil surge is big money. To dry sump alone is getting up towards $4K. rebuilding engines gets boring and expensive.

    The suspension does not have enough adjustment flexibility with standard arms, standard top mount locations etc, remember no cutting of bodywork. IPRA need standard hubs, arm, bushes etc. To get the most out of the new tyres, you need flexibility to get the required geometry. The top cars are able to do this because the standard car allows it.

    If you were to run 1.04-5 what are the thing you would do differently starting from scratch? I wouldnt use a 205. I would build a civic. Cheap horsepower (k20a), heaps of aftermarket parts, proven performer. You will spend i reckon double on a 205 to what you would on a civic. 1.04's i reckon would set you back $40 to $50K for the 205.


    The biggest issue for you i think is how do you run two drivers at IPRA. MRA and supersprints have enough flexibility that you can both drive on the one day.

    I would build an IPRA legal cage and that is it. It is the basis for superspirnt rules also.

    The issue is you love the 205......
    Adrian Wuillemin

  21. #46
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    Forget the bitumen, get it out on the gravel.



    [QUOTE=Adrian Wuillemi;1332237]
    Quote Originally Posted by cam85 View Post
    Whats your limiting factor at the monent Adrian? Hp or chassis? Combo of both? Both.

    Reliable horspeower without oil surge is big money. To dry sump alone is getting up towards $4K. rebuilding engines gets boring and expensive.

    The suspension does not have enough adjustment flexibility with standard arms, standard top mount locations etc, remember no cutting of bodywork. IPRA need standard hubs, arm, bushes etc. To get the most out of the new tyres, you need flexibility to get the required geometry. The top cars are able to do this because the standard car allows it.

    If you were to run 1.04-5 what are the thing you would do differently starting from scratch? I wouldnt use a 205. I would build a civic. Cheap horsepower (k20a), heaps of aftermarket parts, proven performer. You will spend i reckon double on a 205 to what you would on a civic. 1.04's i reckon would set you back $40 to $50K for the 205.


    The biggest issue for you i think is how do you run two drivers at IPRA. MRA and supersprints have enough flexibility that you can both drive on the one day.

    I would build an IPRA legal cage and that is it. It is the basis for superspirnt rules also.

    The issue is you love the 205......

  22. #47
    1000+ Posts parry's Avatar
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    IPRA under 2 liter are running 1:05s at Wakefield, you will not competitive and linger in the back 5secs off the pace. Build the car for the Wakefield 300, Queensland 300 and the Winton 300, all races are with 2 drivers and all have TV coverage.
    90 205 Gti Cherry Red(Track Car)
    2009 207gti
    1985 505gti (Shitbox Rally) Sold

    PBs:

    Oran Park: 1:27:9
    Wakefield: 1:05.6 (July 2015)
    Eastern Creek: 1:54 (8v) 1:48 (16V)
    Mt Huntley: 34.44 (2004 stock 205)
    Ringwood: 35.06 (30/10/2005)
    Winton: 1:33.6 (2017)

  23. #48
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    Yes, to all of the above. Build to have fun under a bang for buck philosophy!

    Truly, money is the true test of lap time in pretty much every car.

    I reckon a well built, big money 306 would give a Honda a good run for its money, but until someone builds a big dollar 306 its all hypothetical.

    Like this...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMTMMUpIiG8
    Last edited by 205 Maxi; 4th March 2015 at 05:45 PM.
    Current Stable
    2018 Mercedes Vito
    Renault Megane 225 Cup
    1997 306 formula 2 kit car (Gravel Rally Car)
    Ford Sierra XR4ti
    Ford Sierra Cosworth (Track Car)
    1971 Mini Clubman

    rcuit Car
    Previous Pugs
    87,88,89 and 1990 205 GTI
    2007 407 HDI
    1989 405 Mi 16
    1998 306 XSI
    1991 405 Mi16
    1996 306 S16

  24. #49
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    Omg wtf cams ipra aasa mra csca lol!
    Adrian Wuillemi and addo like this.
    205 gti-6

    205 track car build in progress http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

  25. #50
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    Needs to spend just a little more, on the bonnet!
    Also looked like he was getting held up on some of the corners.

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