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Thread: Peugeot 404 Utility Project

  1. #151
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Trust me, it ain't from a 504 or 505 : neither have a unit joint. The diff, tt , gearbox and engine are a rigid assembly.

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    The assembly is mounted to the body/chassis with met-elastic mounts at the engine and diff.
    True for the Australian-delivered sedans. Wagons, utilities and low-spec overseas models use uni joints, just like the 404.
    cjl likes this.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by geodon View Post
    Attachment 91435Attachment 91438Attachment 91439Attachment 91440FiAttachment 91441Attachment 91436Attachment 91437


    The thought of fitting this assembly solo was a bit daunting. Especially with my spinal issues.

    I had a surplus pot plant mobile platform and some scissor jacks so after a bit of welding, I felt I had a solution. The jacks enabled me to get the TT/prop shaft/GB nicely lined up with the diff. The middle jack turned out to be not needed & in fact was a nuisance so I removed it

    It worked well & with the GB pushed forward over the front beam and then backwards, I was able to partially engage the diff splines as shown by the wheels turning when I turned the GB input shaft by hand.

    And then it got stuck and wouldn't push in all the way home.

    I'm not sure just how hard to push- I can get a couple of G-clamps and squeeze the flanges together,

    Comments?
    Good work..... a little mechanical assistance always helps!

    You will need to get the torque tube and diff aligned before it will slot in. In your photos, it seems like they're at different angles. You may need to unbolt the U-bolts from the springs to get some rotation of the diff, then tighten it up again later.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  3. #153
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    And as an aside... do you have the spring in the back of the prop shaft?
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu View Post
    And as an aside... do you have the spring in the back of the prop shaft?

    You betcha!
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu View Post
    Good work..... a little mechanical assistance always helps!

    You will need to get the torque tube and diff aligned before it will slot in. In your photos, it seems like they're at different angles. You may need to unbolt the U-bolts from the springs to get some rotation of the diff, then tighten it up again later.
    It's not just the alignment!

    On inspection, the GB is ~100mm forward of its 3 point mounts but the TT & diff flanges are only 50mm apart.

    During the resto, I dismantled the springs to clean & lubricate the leaves. The shackles are double jointed so the springs (with the diff attached) are free to move back & forth to a certain degree. The back end obviously ended up bolted back in about 50mm to far forward

    The only fixed point in this whole shebang is the GB and so the back end needs to have a "re-set".

    I can't see a way out of it: the spring/diff assembly needs to be released then hooked up to the TT. Now the GB can be fixed into its position & then the diff/springs assembly is jacked up and (with the shackles loose) bolted into place.

    The problem is the places to suspend the body in the rear are quite a distance from the ground .

    I'm going to have to get creative.
    Dano likes this.
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  6. #156
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    Default Success!

    Peugeot 404 Utility Project-img_1891.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_1968.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_1969.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_1970.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_1966.jpg

    I quickly realised I would need another mobile platform for the rear end so I adapted the dolly I made for the Dauphine power unit.

    The high lift was obtained by modifying 2 semi-useless car stands I bought for peanuts at a swap meet ages ago- their bases were all of 125mm square. There was no way I was getting under anything they held up!

    Getting alignment was a doddle once everything was out in the open. The G clamps were def not required.

    With everything bolted up, the two mobile platforms moved as one and rolled nicely into position.

    Using a cordless drill to turn the scissor jacks, getting the lift was easy & the castors made aligning the mounts no problem at all.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Peugeot 404 Utility Project-img_1967.jpg  
    marty 404 and FIVEDOOR like this.
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  7. #157
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    Default Addendum.

    Well I had to detach everything & do it again. I was working beneath the car attaching all & sundry and when I went to put in the top GB mount, the hole had shifted even though the two lower ones were done up. It was plumb dead centre immediately after lifting the GB up but misaligned as I worked elsewhere. No amount of levering etc. would get it to line up.

    This is probably due the GB moving as the weight shifted.

    If you're doing a GB refit put the top bolt in FIRST!
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  8. #158
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    Default I'm Baaaaaccck!

    Peugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2081.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2096.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2095.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2094.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2093.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2092.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2091.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2090.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2089.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2088.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2087.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2086.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2085.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2084.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2083.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2082.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2097.jpg

    Fear not Comrade Punters, I'm still on the right side of the daisies!

    Struck down with medical issues late April. Resolved. Growing older is a bitch but the alternative is worse. Trimmed down the fleet a bit- spinal issues. Unnecessary as it turned out, but c'est la vie! The Landy & bike have gone. I can't work out how to change my signature.

    Onwards!

    The spare wheel carrier fastener problem solved. It probably should have some sort of a wheel handled bolt to lock it in but I used an M8 Allen bolt

    I installed the fuel tank after having the perforated upper section bronzed up. I don't have oxy so it was outsourced plus I have a phobia about flames on petrol tanks. Ye Gods! Les Francaise believe in minimal engineering, don't they? 30 (?) litres of petrol defying gravity via a single 8mm threaded rod a single M8 nut. I'm considering installing a couple of check straps so I can sleep!

    Major movement was the installation of a 505 radiator, instead of reco-ing the original. Rather than restoring a 1600 I'm going for a used, re-freshed 2 litre motor. I mocked it up with wood blocks, and, guided by One Who Has Travelled this Path, was told to lower it a bit. It's vital to put it hard against the RH inner guard & the right height is critical to get a hook up to the water pump outlet.

    Rubber bushes were made with stuff from Clark Rubber.

    I made an adaptor bracket for both the lower and upper mounts.

    It looks pretty swish, and, as Ed China would say: " A lick of paint and Job Done!"
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  9. #159
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    Its great to see your back in action
    I like your radiator installation I am going down the same path .

  10. #160
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    Default Addendum

    Peugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2098.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2099.jpg


    The 404 rad is only half the width of the 505 so one central top mount was adequate- that Gallic phobia of over-engineering again?

    But one mount for the 505 unit meant there was way too much fore & aft movement on the LH side.

    So I made a simple strut with 6mm rod & a couple of washers & utilised one of the bonnet lock fixing mounts to attach it.

    Should I find another orig strut I'll use it for symmetry but as the bonnet lock mounts are about 20mm further inboard, I'll need to do a cut & shut to get it to fit.
    Last edited by geodon; 13th October 2017 at 07:31 AM.
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  11. #161
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    Peugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2160.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2154.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2158.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2153.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2155.jpg

    OK! Back into it!

    I've managed to source a 2L engine in GWO. It took a while but it made more sense than overhauling one of the 1600's neither of which were the original. Corresponding with the NSW version of VicRoads, it appears this vehicle was originally registered as a van which explains the weird & wonderful extraneous mounting points on the chassis!

    As I prepared to drop it in I had a BFO (Blinding Flash of the Obvious): it will be easier to run the wiring looms thru before the install.


    I have to make brake pipes too. I can work out the rear one but the one from the m/cylinder to the distribution block on the front end is a mystery.


    Can someone put up a photo of where it goes?
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  12. #162
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    Two comments.

    If you are using the alternator already on the 2L engine you will need some minor rewiring and won't need the external regulator.

    The 2l alternator will support a warning light. So run a wire to behind the cluster for that.

    The long , neoprene clutch hose may be detrimental to clutch "feel". I found out by hard experience.

    I ended up using solid cupro nickel tube from the clutch master and connected the bolt on slave cylinder using a front 404 sedan brake hose.

    The master is a metric thread a slave/ 404 hose is imperial thread. The easiest interface for the cupro-nickel line is to use a banjo fitting on the master And a double flare to suit 404 hose . Brakequip have all fitting ex stock.

    The 2L engine will fit straight in. If you retain the aircon compressor, you need to trim one of the lower battery tray brackets.

    The brakes have a four way brass union of the front LHS of the front cross member. Two outlets go to
    L & R Front. One goes to rear hose to the diff and one to the brake master.
    Last edited by robmac; 26th March 2018 at 10:58 PM.
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  13. #163
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    Thnx Rob!

    That neoprene monstrosity is long gone. I have done what you did with the clutch.

    Can you show or describe the route taken by the brake pipe from the m/cyl to the distribution block? Over the top of the bell housing or down & along the cross member?
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by geodon View Post
    Thnx Rob!

    Can you show or describe the route taken by the brake pipe from the m/cyl to the distribution block? Over the top of the bell housing or down & along the cross member?

    I've never owned a car without booster. In the boosted cars, the brake line heads from the booster, down the left hand firewall, then to the union.

    Taking a guess, I'd think without a booster, the line would go across the firewall then go down on the LHS to the union.

    As a suggestion a VH 24 booster may not be a bad idea. It will certainly reduce pedal effort.
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


  15. #165
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    Default Onwards!

    Peugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2183.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2195.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2194.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2193.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2192.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2191.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2190.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2189.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2188.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2187.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2186.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2184.jpgClick image for larger version. 

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    Using soft thick fencing wire I fabricated "templates" for the missing brake lines from M/C to distribution block & from there to the flexible pipe on the torque tube & had them made up. I had the old flex pipe so I got one made up using it as a example.

    Now the frustrating stuff starts! I'm no stranger to sorting out wiring. My biggest challenge was a 1970 VW Type 181/M63 (the NATO Kubelwagen) I converted to right hand drive (making it a Type 182, I guess). From memory, the damn thing had 3 (three) circuits: normal civilian use, semi-tactical & full-on tactical via a selector switch. It was very tedious but do-able because I obtained a colour wiring diagram that I blew out to poster size & mounted it on melamine. The key was that ALL wires were colour coded: e.g. green/white tracer etc. etc. Well, Les Francais don't do that; they number the wires. Fine. But when the numbers wear out & disappear I'm up that well known creek.

    I think I have Identified most of the clusters:
    Photo No2 Ignition sw
    No3 Headlight sw
    No 4 Instrument console connections identified by panel light plugs
    no 5 I suspect this WAS a male multi-pin connector to the engine. Correct?
    No 6 Rear lights pin & plug
    No 7 2 multi-pin plus for lights & engine function
    No 8 Is that the right juxtaposition for the fuse box? I can't imagine the bulk of the wires going t'other way but nothing would surprise me!
    No. 9. The engine connections were mostly marked by PO so that's easy!
    *attached thumbnail* The trafficator/horn bundle?

    Also, if someone can post a photo of how the looms are threaded behind the dash, that would be a help

    I'm thinking it was premature to fit the dash! It will be much easier to wire up the instruments etc. if I remove it & suspend it through the windscreen opening
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Peugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2196.jpg  
    Last edited by geodon; 3rd June 2018 at 03:31 PM. Reason: last photo
    JohnW, FIVEDOOR and Demannu like this.
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  16. #166
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    Have to admire the persistence. Good it continues.....
    JohnW

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    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
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  17. #167
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    Fantastic George now I’ve got somewhere to start on my canopy.
    NOW: 1960 403 Sedan 1953 203 Ute Honda vfr800
    Previous Peugeot 1 203 6+ 403 7+ 404. 4 504 4 505. 1 205
    Renault. 3. 12’s. 2. 16’s 1. 25wagon. 1. Floride
    Citroen 1gs

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by geodon View Post
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    Using soft thick fencing wire I fabricated "templates" for the missing brake lines from M/C to distribution block & from there to the flexible pipe on the torque tube & had them made up. I had the old flex pipe so I got one made up using it as a example.

    Now the frustrating stuff starts! I'm no stranger to sorting out wiring. My biggest challenge was a 1970 VW Type 181/M63 (the NATO Kubelwagen) I converted to right hand drive (making it a Type 182, I guess). From memory, the damn thing had 3 (three) circuits: normal civilian use, semi-tactical & full-on tactical via a selector switch. It was very tedious but do-able because I obtained a colour wiring diagram that I blew out to poster size & mounted it on melamine. The key was that ALL wires were colour coded: e.g. green/white tracer etc. etc. Well, Les Francais don't do that; they number the wires. Fine. But when the numbers wear out & disappear I'm up that well known creek.

    I think I have Identified most of the clusters:
    Photo No2 Ignition sw
    No3 Headlight sw
    No 4 Instrument console connections identified by panel light plugs
    no 5 I suspect this WAS a male multi-pin connector to the engine. Correct?
    No 6 Rear lights pin & plug
    No 7 2 multi-pin plus for lights & engine function
    No 8 Is that the right juxtaposition for the fuse box? I can't imagine the bulk of the wires going t'other way but nothing would surprise me!
    No. 9. The engine connections were mostly marked by PO so that's easy!
    *attached thumbnail* The trafficator/horn bundle?

    Also, if someone can post a photo of how the looms are threaded behind the dash, that would be a help

    I'm thinking it was premature to fit the dash! It will be much easier to wire up the instruments etc. if I remove it & suspend it through the windscreen opening
    Identifying the cables that supply 12V DC to the switches is the first step. After that you know the rest of the cables are the "loads" ie high beam, low beam, parkers , horns etc etc.

    And Peugeot use red as low beam and yellow high beam from memory. Power feeds can usually be easily identified too -because they are usually cables of greater cross sectional area.

    Personally, I'd fit relays for the head lights LB & HB, horns and the starter solenoid.

    Also be aware that some 404 versions don't have the headlights fused.
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Identifying the cables that supply 12V DC to the switches is the first step. After that you know the rest of the cables are the "loads" ie high beam, low beam, parkers , horns etc etc.

    And Peugeot use red as low beam and yellow high beam from memory. Power feeds can usually be easily identified too -because they are usually cables of greater cross sectional area.

    Personally, I'd fit relays for the head lights LB & HB, horns and the starter solenoid.

    Also be aware that some 404 versions don't have the headlights fused.
    Thanks, I concur.

    I used a battery of relays on my 1962 Land Rover. In the 90's I used a 1958 MG ZB Magnette as a daily driver. The ignition used to cut out sporadically for no apparent reason. I ended up putting a relay in for the low tension feed to the coil. It never failed again! The 40+ yo switch was not passing enough current for the ingition but the relay only needed milliamps to fire up & feed it directly from the battery.

    I can see hours of fun with a battery, an inline fused lead & a test lamp.

    I'll certainly need help identifying the terminals on the various switches however.
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  20. #170
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    Quote:
    ****Fantastic George now I’ve got somewhere to start on my canopy*****



    No problems!

    How's the VFR go?

    I owned a VFR 750 in the 80's- the all white version. The 2nd best looking Honda I owned. The best looker was a VFR 400 in red, white & blue i.e. The baby RC 30. Damn they made nice looking bikes back then!
    Last edited by geodon; 5th June 2018 at 11:04 AM. Reason: context!
    tok403 likes this.
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  21. #171
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    I'll certainly need help identifying the terminals on the various switches however.
    Just use an ohm meter (or buzzer)

    Edit: I have a "foolproof" system for metering out automotive switches.
    Last edited by robmac; 5th June 2018 at 07:45 PM.
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


  22. #172
    Fellow Frogger! geodon's Avatar
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    Default The Fog Is Lifting!

    Peugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2205.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2208.jpg

    Thanks to all contributors, esp Bob in Tassie.

    The very few numbers I saw were on the collars around the spade terminals, so, I thought that was how they did them all. Mais non! They actually numbered the ends of the wires as well. To my delight about 30-40% are still visible, mainly where there was minimal exposure to heat & no grime. There are no numbers at all on the engine compartment wires.

    Still, this had greatly reduced the extent of the continuity games I have to play.


    Dash is rewired and I hope to get the non-existent 6-pin plug tomorrow. I'm expecting new headlight buckets, lights & connectors soon so I can then set up the lighting
    Dano and robmac like this.
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    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
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  23. #173
    Fellow Frogger! geodon's Avatar
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    Default An Aussiefrogs Paul Hogan Moment

    Peugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2209.jpg

    "That's not a wiring diagram."
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  24. #174
    Fellow Frogger! geodon's Avatar
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    Default

    Peugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2210.jpgPeugeot 404 Utility Project-img_2211.jpg

    "Heh heh heh.

    THAT'S a wiring diagram!"

    Thanks for the loan Col H.!
    Demannu and BIGRR like this.
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  25. #175
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    To be very picky, actually it's not the wiring diagram for a Ute.

    The utes have a different instrument cluster.

    Fortunately, I knew when to stop and can reliably read an A4 circuit diagram.
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