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Thread: 1962 dauphine Gordini Project

  1. #51
    My Supermodel 63-1092's Avatar
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    A few years back I got some from Caravelle imports in Box Hill, try them after the New Years break.

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    John
    Александър Кристоф Шанел

  2. #52
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    New side mounts are available (ex OS) but the quality of reproductions can be questionable these days. If your rubbers aren't perished they can be successfully reglued with Sikaflex by the following method:--

    The rubber will need to be cut free from the steel plate with a sharp knife so both surfaces can be cleaned thoroughly with thinners and roughed up with a grinder similar to the pic.

    1962 dauphine Gordini Project-pil.jpg

    Smear both surfaces with sikaflex and rub the sika in thoroughly with your finger so the pores and grinder marks are properly charged with sealant (this is the important bit).

    Add another thick smear to both 'primed' surfaces and clamp lightly.

    Leave for 7 days to cure ( an oven will accelerate curing but natural curing will work best).

    I used this method on my Floride 3+ rears ago and they are still going strong.


    Post Scriptum: A tube of Sikaflex Pro has many uses with old cars, costs $15 to $18 and will last for ages if kept in a fridge.
    Last edited by 59 Floride; 26th December 2015 at 03:17 PM.
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  3. #53
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    Default Rubber connectors

    Quote Originally Posted by geodon View Post
    Attachment 78688Attachment 78689Attachment 78690Attachment 78691Attachment 78692


    OK I'm back.

    I finished the MGA hydraulic leak. You have to get close to "see" the repair work. My fault. "A stich in time saves 99". I kept putting it off till it became major.

    The reassembly of the Dauphine power unit is underway.

    The rubber fuel lines had oxidised to the point of solidification. I've replaced them with some 8mm woven-fabric coated air-cooled VW stuff. Now, these cars left the VW factory without hose clips on these lines so I'm leaving them as such. The early Beetles had a reputation for self immolation & most people blamed these "push-on & pray" connections. But it was due to 2 things: mainly people replacing the original with the Imperial equivalent (5/16ths) which felt the same but was actually a bit slacker and , more rarely, the fuel pump outlet spigot popping out of the fuel pump body WITH THE PUSH ON HOSE IN PLACE! That was a fault & I always grabbed the spigot with vice grips & tried to pull them put. If they came out, they went back with a bit of burring & Araldite.

    Now the Dauphine distributor: It's a simple blade drive but is it offset or can it be put in 180 degrees out?

    I marked it with liquid paper & I don't recall rotating the engine but wouldn't go in on the mark. It's gone in on the opposite to where I expected.

    ?? Maybe I DID rotate the motor.
    I think you'll find that unless you use clamps on each end of the rubber connectors the car will fail its rego inspection.

  4. #54
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    **************I think you'll find that unless you use clamps on each end of the rubber connectors the car will fail its rego inspection**************

    Ah yes! The Unpredictable Hand of the Beauracracy!

    Thanks. Good point.

    10X Adjustable CAR Fuel Petrol Pipe Hose Clips Stainless Spring Clamp 8 12mm | eBay

    At 30cents each why not?

    Order placed!
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by geodon View Post
    Attachment 78695Attachment 78696 Are these available locally? I need both sides. Or is that amount of disconnection serviceable? I WAS going to try to use high grade Sikaflex to attempt to re-stick them but, in view of them failing means the whole she-bang has to come out again, it may be false economy. Unless some one had tried it successfully?? I'm guessing the rubber is vulcanised on. Has modern adhesive technology risen to these dizzy heights yet?
    Forgot to mention: my R8 engine mounts, similar to those but not exactly the same, were replaced about 15-20 years back. For much of that time since replacement, the new ones have been slightly unstuck like your photos, and I must fix them sometime. I suspect they peel off a bit and that relieves the stress enough and they stabilise partly uncoupled. Just the other day I had a banging noise and a wee bit of clutch shudder, so suspect I might have to take action. I suspect most of them are partly unstuck, like your photos, for much of their lives, but nobody notices unless they look, and who would look if there isn't a problem or if they aren't doing a rebuild. I notice because I do look, but I've not had a problem AT ALL in the decade or so since I first recognised that they were partly detached.

    All of this means that "59 Floride" has provided the solution if you need to fix them or want to fix them. Whether you need to, I've no idea to be honest. It may not be a critical issue, but of course if you are restoring a car, now is one time it is easy to attend to it.

    Cheers and Happy New Year.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
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  6. #56
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    John I concur with your thoughts and have decided to "suck it & see". Only about 10% is "unstuck".

    However, one of the most remarkable products I have recently encountered is Rapid Fix- a variation of the two-pack epoxy glue idea.

    It's a puffer pack of white powder and a dropper pack of liquid. It has saved my hide on many bits (albeit plastic) that are not available for replacement.

    I have puffed the powder into the space & dropped the liquid onto it & have gotten a seemingly very strong bond.

    It's heartening to see that Sikaflex Pro will remedy a complete failure provided the rubber is in good mettle.

    As Dennis Lillee's teammates used to say about his balding crown: "watch this space!"
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
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  7. #57
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    Personally, and others may disagree, I'd certainly leave 10% unstuck well alone and just monitor it. If it exceeds 25-30% unstuck, with accelerating detachment, I'd act. This monitoring would require self-discipline that might exceed my own. I did check a year or two ago but it is high on the current maintenance list..... Most of these cars do not travel 10,000-20,000 kilometres per year.

    I use a product called Q-Bond, which sounds similar - powder plus top end superglue I think - fabulous stuff. Repco sells it.

    You've a very eclectic collection. Nice. Is the Series 2A one of those odd 6-cylinder ones I used to drive?

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
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    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

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    Thanks John.

    Yes, I've expanded my horizons.

    The Land Rover used to be the Mornington Peninsula snake wrangler's vehicle. Needless to say I dismantled it very cautiously. It's running a 186 Holden with a Geelong conversion kit from J G Johnston Engineers: beautiful job! The adaptor plate is cast & deadly accurate so minimal mainshaft sloppiness = good gearbox life.

    I wanted to go back to the orig 2.25 but they are getting thin on the ground now. I eventually bought a series 3 to get the motor then sold the carcass.

    I'm torn between originality & history. It's going great & is a great example example of Aussie adaptability as is. It used to have a winch connected to (believe it!) a Ford Prefect diff on the front bumper driven by the PTO on the GB. With the grunt of a 186 and a fat steel cable, it could have easily pulled itself up a tree. But, I sold the winch & GB which I now regret.

    The 6 cylinder over & under motor was not a happy camper in the LR. It lacked the low down torque of the 4 & was more suited to the Rover saloons
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by geodon View Post
    Thanks John.

    Yes, I've expanded my horizons.

    The Land Rover used to be the Mornington Peninsula snake wrangler's vehicle. Needless to say I dismantled it very cautiously. It's running a 186 Holden with a Geelong conversion kit from J G Johnston Engineers: beautiful job! The adaptor plate is cast & deadly accurate so minimal mainshaft sloppiness = good gearbox life.

    I wanted to go back to the orig 2.25 but they are getting thin on the ground now. I eventually bought a series 3 to get the motor then sold the carcass.

    I'm torn between originality & history. It's going great & is a great example example of Aussie adaptability as is. It used to have a winch connected to (believe it!) a Ford Prefect diff on the front bumper driven by the PTO on the GB. With the grunt of a 186 and a fat steel cable, it could have easily pulled itself up a tree. But, I sold the winch & GB which I now regret.

    The 6 cylinder over & under motor was not a happy camper in the LR. It lacked the low down torque of the 4 & was more suited to the Rover saloons
    A mate had a series 2 with an upright Chrysler Hemi 6 engine. It was a wonderful combination, similar fuel consumption to original , and effortless power. Also with low down torque.

    I'm surprised more people didn't use the Hemi, the Holden 186/ 202 is agricultural in comparison.
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


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    Interesting, agree re the Rover '6'! I heard years ago that Dick Lang of Desert Treck fitted 186 motors and the fuel economy improved, then Holden V8s and the fuel economy improved further! I won't start of the subject of broken half shafts....

    I'd not heard of a Slant 6 going in, but it certainly makes sense.

    Always a balance, originality. Enjoy it.

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    A mate had a series 2 with an upright Chrysler Hemi 6 engine. It was a wonderful combination, similar fuel consumption to original , and effortless power. Also with low down torque.

    I'm surprised more people didn't use the Hemi, the Holden 186/ 202 is agricultural in comparison.
    Totally agree re hemi. Gorgeous hunk of grunt.

    For a year or two, I ran a J3 Bedford beaver tail tray (1963?) with a Hadfield (Castlemaine Rod Shop) conversion to a 265 hemi.

    Holy Moley! The fastest Bedford in the state. It just ran out of puff due to its high ratio diff.
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  12. #62
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    Default El Cheapo Speedy Front Spring Compressor

    1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1336.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1337.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1338.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1339.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1340.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1341.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1342.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1343.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1344.jpg

    I'm waiting for parts for the power unit. I'll replace the water pump. There was corrosion on the outlet for the top hose. There was enough purchase to attach the hose but the metal was getting ultra thin so the repair kit may have been wasted.

    So, over to the front end.

    The compressors I made for the rears wouldn't work. No Access. I referred to the manual which showed a lovely bit of kit but, hey, it's basically just a big, long bolt.

    So, after removing the shock & disconnecting brake lines and roll bar. I started with those big square washers again & welded a nut to the top one after cutting 2 slots. The latter engage the reinforcing ribs on top of the spring cage & stop the top fixture rotating. I used ~650mm of M10 all thread allowing plenty of length to allow the spring to expand. The car needs to be fairly high. I put back the shocker saddle. It's what the bottom nut pushes on.

    How to turn it? Well, a spanner will do but you'd better not start the job without preparing a cut lunch.

    I adapted a tube spanner so I could use a rattle gun. I found an old UNF unit I rarely used that fitted the 17mm nut, cut it in half then welded on about 300mm of tube to make an extra long tube spanner. I found a socket to fit the other end. The outside of the spanner is a hexagon so a socket can fit onto it & then a rattle gun can be used to drive it. The tail of the bolt just goes into the space between the two hex ends.

    Once tight, I removed the top wishbone link then lowered it after undoing the 4 nuts that attach the lower w/bone to the frame

    It worked well but always remove the 4 mounting bolts for the lower wishbone completely. This lets the wishbone lower cleanly without getting hung up.
    Last edited by geodon; 1st January 2016 at 01:14 PM.
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  13. #63
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    OK.

    The grungy bits are stewing in the electrolysis tanks.

    I can't remove the top wishbone without removing the steering rack.

    I'm familiar with the flex coupling & realise I have to undo 2 of the 4 bolts but accessibility is woeful.

    Any hot tips? I need to replace the steering wheel so would it help to release the column from inside the car & pull the rack down for better access??
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by geodon View Post
    OK. The grungy bits are stewing in the electrolysis tanks. I can't remove the top wishbone without removing the steering rack. I'm familiar with the flex coupling & realise I have to undo 2 of the 4 bolts but accessibility is woeful. Any hot tips? I need to replace the steering wheel so would it help to release the column from inside the car & pull the rack down for better access??
    1. Are you sure you have to remove the steering rack?? The R8 upper pivots come out through holes in the floor into the cabin and my Dauphine manual says the same.

    2. The flexible joint bolts are difficult! The early ones have split pins which makes it worse to get them out but at least you can screw them up by finger, compared with nylock nuts. I've found the only way is to use a really small (i.e. old Sidchrome) open ender/ring spanner and a good quality, small 10 mm ratchet ring spanner, one small click at a time. Prick of a job but you quite possibly do need to do it so you know that the joint is new! They can fail completely when old and it isn't nice.

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  15. #65
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    1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1345.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1346.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1347.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1348.jpg

    ***1. Are you sure you have to remove the steering rack?? The R8 upper pivots come out through holes in the floor into the cabin and my Dauphine manual says the same. ***

    Errrrm, the leading (front) end of the link is a fixed mushroom jobbie and so can't be removed ergo the link has to be hammered forward from within the interior. Notwithstanding, even if it was removable I can't see how one could smite it mightily towards the rear. There isn't enough room to swing a hamster let alone my bolster hammer and besides, the rack is in the way.

    I'll remove the steering wheel- it's stuffed anyway- & remove the two rack bolts but replace them with cable ties (to limit the forward movement) and try to pull the rack forward for a bit more wriggle room. The wires connected to the ign/steering lock will be the limiting factor. I think.
    Last edited by geodon; 2nd January 2016 at 08:14 AM.
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    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
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    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  16. #66
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    Yes, I see. It is the access to the big nut that is from inside the car. I have done this job with the R8, and I was lucky that the pins came out easily (there's a history of the big pins being rusted/seized on R10s. I didn't need to remove the rack as the pins cleared it. Apart from those flexijoint bolts, at least getting the rack out is easy enough. With both out, you've room to clean things up in there at least.

    Your Dauphine looks like the same grey as the original colour on my 4CV.

    Best wishes for the fun.

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by geodon View Post
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    ***1. Are you sure you have to remove the steering rack?? The R8 upper pivots come out through holes in the floor into the cabin and my Dauphine manual says the same. ***

    Errrrm, the leading (front) end of the link is a fixed mushroom jobbie and so can't be removed ergo the link has to be hammered forward from within the interior. Notwithstanding, even if it was removable I can't see how one could smite it mightily towards the rear. There isn't enough room to swing a hamster let alone my bolster hammer and besides, the rack is in the way.

    I'll remove the steering wheel- it's stuffed anyway- & remove the two rack bolts but replace them with cable ties (to limit the forward movement) and try to pull the rack forward for a bit more wriggle room. The wires connected to the ign/steering lock will be the limiting factor. I think.
    I know a guy that does a very nice replica steering wheel replacement. http://www.amazing-classic-replicas.com/
    Thank you Graham for the steering wheel for Karen's Dauphine G. Very nice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan moore View Post
    I know a guy that does a very nice replica steering wheel replacement. http://www.amazing-classic-replicas.com/
    Thank you Graham for the steering wheel for Karen's Dauphine G. Very nice.
    Thanks Alan! Graham and I have already had verbal intercourse on this subject.

    An immaculate wheel came with the car but it's black & white instead of blue & white
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
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    Default Suspension Bushes

    1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1359.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1360.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1361.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1362.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1363.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1364.jpg

    The first candidates have emerged from the electrolysis tanks. 3 days in the tank, a water blast & they are practically ready to paint!

    Fortunately both king pins are perfect- as they should be; it's only done 40K miles.

    The rubberised bushes are sound but perished- as they should be; they are 54 years old!

    What is the state of play here? Replace as original? Best source?


    At the risk of being burned at the stake, are polyurethane replacements feasible? The Land Rover scene seems split on the subject.
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by geodon View Post
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    The first candidates have emerged from the electrolysis tanks. 3 days in the tank, a water blast & they are practically ready to paint!

    Fortunately both king pins are perfect- as they should be; it's only done 40K miles.

    The rubberised bushes are sound but perished- as they should be; they are 54 years old!

    What is the state of play here? Replace as original? Best source?


    At the risk of being burned at the stake, are polyurethane replacements feasible? The Land Rover scene seems split on the subject.
    Someone around here made their own for a Fregate, I believe.........
    It's another lovely day! Again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Someone around here made their own for a Fregate, I believe.........

    And they're still going strong.

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    Graham, was that because the originals were not available? Or are the poly ones superior?
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    1949 Citroen Big 6
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    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
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    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

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    Quote Originally Posted by geodon View Post
    Graham, was that because the originals were not available? Or are the poly ones superior?
    Pure laziness to be honest, I couldn't be bothered looking overseas for them so while I was in the zone I just remanufactured them. From what I can gather they are all made with polyurethane these days and there and some on the world market have failed after a short time. So my advice is make them yourself or at least buy them from a reputable supply house that offer a return warranty.

    1956 Renault Fregate restoration...Project GeneviŤve

    Post Scriptum: I can host a short tutorial on the best practice if you decide to 'do it yourself', let me know.
    Last edited by 59 Floride; 3rd January 2016 at 10:46 AM.

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    ***Post Scriptum: I can host a short tutorial on the best practice if you decide to 'do it yourself', let me know***

    Replacements are available:

    Train avant, Direction, Volant

    How do the prices compare to making them?

    I need to buy a water pump & gaskets etc from this mob so the freight is pretty irrelevant.

    The crux is the outer sleeve diameter. I concur it will be near impossible to get them out undamaged. SOP for the Landies is:

    1. Burn the rubber
    2. remove the inner
    3. Hacksaw the outer
    4. Collapse the outer & remove it

    Sooooo, I need 26mm (king pins) and 36mm (pivot pins) OD pipe. I need to research the availability.

    Also, I have no lathe. Can I rough up the surface enough with a Dremel & sandpaper for adhesion?

    There is a Barnes shop in Richmond Vic but I didn't see the stuff you used on their site

    Barnes Products - Moulding, casting and sculpting supplies. Silicones, Resins, Clays. - Barnes Products
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  25. #75
    Fellow Frogger! geodon's Avatar
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    Jan 2013
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    Default Musings on Steering Rack Removal

    I have to wait for a 35mm socket to get the steering wheel off.

    I've been in very many tight access situations before (at one stage we had 3 MG Midgets in the family) but the area around the Dauphine pedals etc. is bordering on the insane. Think about it: steering coupling, pedals, brake master cylinder, clutch & accelerator cable connections. All things that WILL need attention in the life of a car.

    Why wasn't an access panel provided?

    Has anyone ever cut one into the floor of the boot?

    Now before you start screaming "Burn him", consider:

    * It will be under a rubber mat & not visible.

    * It will make work there infinitely easier

    * It will be a panel of, say, 3mm plate with numerous (10?) 6mm rivnuts to attach it, so structurally it will be stronger than what was cut out.

    For example, the Midgets mentioned above have the back end of the gear box in a cave. You can't reach in to attach the propshaft the end of which droops at the uni joint. The factory said you put "cigars" of newspaper in the uni joint to make it stick out in line with the propshaft & "feel" your way in. Yeah, right! All 3 of mine had access panels.


    Comments?

    1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1365.jpg

    PS Mine was red but not that red one. One of the girls was on L plates so I had to co-drive to this MG event!
    Last edited by geodon; 3rd January 2016 at 01:57 PM.
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

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