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  1. #26
    Fellow Frogger! geodon's Avatar
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    Default Radiator Shroud

    1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0826.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0828.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0829.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0822.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0823.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0631.jpg



    While waiting for paint, I noticed a rad shroud amongst the stuff in boxes. But I didn't take one off?

    The spares book certainly shows one but it is fixed via a bracket attached to the rad frame via 3 studs on each side.

    My rad has no mounts & there's no sign of brackets but I can match up 4 holes in the shroud with 4 in the rad frame.

    Big self tapping screws? I'm tempted to use 3/16ths pop rivets or even rivnuts.

    The spares book also shows some panels around the shroud. I haven't seen any such panels in the "spares" boxes?. Are they there to ensure only cool air goes thru the rad? I have seen this set up before in a VW Schwimmwagen- the 4WD amphibian. (The Unseen Hand of Ferdinand Porsche?) Because the air-cooled eng is in a tub, the danger is the hot air, once it passes thru the eng, is re-circulated back into the cooling air intake, thus getting hotter & hotter till the inevitable happens. Porsche eliminated this by sucking air from the passenger compartment. The intake had "Nicht verdecken!" stenciled in front of it so Fritz wouldn't plonk his overcoat there! The hot air was then kept isolated in the rear of the eng & allowed to rise out thru the holes the exhaust system exited thru.

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    If they exist, can someone show me what I'm looking for?
    Last edited by geodon; 4th January 2015 at 09:34 AM. Reason: more info
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  2. #27
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    Default

    Derr!

    I turned to page 70.20 of the spares book & there is my shroud attached via 4xST screws.

    But the panels on page 70.01?? The radiator blind makes me think these are European specs & not applicable to the Antipodean models?
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  3. #28
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    You might find that the radiator blind was fitted to very early Dauphines - this will be indicated a bit by the range of oval plate numbers shown for the component in the parts book. Equally, it might have been one of those "Extreme Weather" fittings for cars sent to certain places, such as Russia or Norway or North America. Certainly at least some 4CVs in Australia had blinds up to about 1954 from what I've seen. I threw mine away 40 years ago.

    I reckon the shrouds are very effective, judging by the difference between my 4CV (terrible shroud) and R8 (excellent shroud, similar to Dauphine).

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  4. #29
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    Default Brake Cylinders Re-sleeve or Replace?

    1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0836.jpg

    I opened this topic on the Renault stream.

    Today I discussed it with the local Clutch & Brake enterprise.

    The cost of re-sleeving in stainless steel is $55 per cylinder. To this I have to add 2 cups & 2 boots per cylinder, so, it will work out to about $70 each maximum.

    New ones are 40 euros. That's $60 @ todays exchange rate. Post will be negligible as the 40 euros includes a VAT which will be rebated.

    I'm going for the stainless option, at least for the wheel cylinders. It's the best arrangement for a car that will sit idle because it will be impervious to pitting unlike mild steel.

    I will assess the master cylinder separately.
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  5. #30
    Fellow Frogger! geodon's Avatar
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    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by geodon View Post
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    I opened this topic on the Renault stream.

    Today I discussed it with the local Clutch & Brake enterprise.

    The cost of re-sleeving in stainless steel is $55 per cylinder. To this I have to add 2 cups & 2 boots per cylinder, so, it will work out to about $70 each maximum.

    New ones are 40 euros. That's $60 @ todays exchange rate. Post will be negligible as the 40 euros includes a VAT which will be rebated.

    I'm going for the stainless option, at least for the wheel cylinders. It's the best arrangement for a car that will sit idle because it will be impervious to pitting unlike mild steel.

    I will assess the master cylinder separately.
    I'd add a couple of things, or three...

    1. There's the odd story around of sealant failing outside the sleeve, but I've never had a problem.
    2. Those of us who use silicone brake fluid have no corrosion issues.
    3. I fitted the extra large diameter front cylinders, so bought them new from France to be sure to be sure.

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  7. #32
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    Default Don't Underestimate the Local Suppliers!

    1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0868.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0874.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0873.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0872.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0871.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0869.jpg

    I'm preparing to re-mate the transmission & engine prior to painting.

    I was able to source rear wheel bearings & seals AND the seal for the mainshaft locally.

    At the clutch & brake place doing my rear linings, drum machining & sleeving the wheel cylinders, I showed them the uneven wear in the thrust bearing described above & asked if they could get a replacement.

    They not only came up with one, it was a metal one and it was also self-centering! I've never seen one like that before. That should overcome the rather imprecise factory set up. It's a bit thicker than the carbon one but I should be able to allow for that at the cable adjustment. I tried to show how much off centre movement there is with multiple photos
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  8. #33
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    Default Graese Cap Removal

    1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0876.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0875.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0877.jpg
    While waiting for the gasket goo under the clutch throw out plate to dry I continued to dismantle the front end.

    Are the grease caps ALWAYS this hard?

    Every other one I've encountered had a lip to prise them off!

    That length of angle was previously used bolted to a VW flywheel to hold it while the single 36/42mm nut was undone. Serious torque! 217 ft lbs in the old language.
    Last edited by geodon; 13th January 2015 at 03:17 PM. Reason: more info
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by geodon View Post
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    While waiting for the gasket goo under the clutch throw out plate to dry I continued to dismantle the front end.

    Are the grease caps ALWAYS this hard?

    Every other one I've encountered had a lip to prise them off!

    That length of angle was previously used bolted to a VW flywheel to hold it while the single 36/42mm nut was undone. Serious torque! 217 ft lbs in the old language.
    I've always found them impossible to turn in the way you approached it, but easy to get off with multigrips at right angles to your angle of attack. That is, the multigrips are used to wobble the grease cap up and down parallel to the axis of the stub axle - they come off in seconds.

    Good re the clutch, seals etc. The seals are standard sizes, not specific to Renault I guess, as they tend to be available. My R8 clutch, complete, came from Adelaide Brake and Clutch including a needle roller thrust, but not a self centering device! Never seen one before. Might get one if you could provide details or their phone number.

    The rear bearings had the little champfer on the inside to match the curve of the shoulder on the half shaft? Excellent.

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  10. #35
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    Amateurs, you just use a hammer and belt them off, then you just have to straighten them up again ready for re-use..works for me.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by 59 Floride View Post
    Amateurs, you just use a hammer and belt them off, then you just have to straighten them up again ready for re-use..works for me.
    Bit indelicate.... Mine aren't even dented. They really come off very easily.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  12. #37
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    Thnx guys!

    I tackled them this way because there's a diagram in the manual with a device that looks like a giant set of tongs that twists the things radially.

    Next time I'll attack with the vice grips at right angles.

    Re the thrust bearing: Clutch & Brake Specialists 03 52295077- ask for Mark
    Last edited by geodon; 13th January 2015 at 04:59 PM. Reason: more info
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by geodon View Post
    Thnx guys! I tackled them this way because there's a diagram in the manual with a device that looks like a giant set of tongs that twists the things radially. Next time I'll attack with the vice grips at right angles. Re the thrust bearing: Clutch & Brake Specialists 03 52295077- ask for Mark
    Thanks for that contact information. I'd forgotten the huge "factory cap remover" tong device. I've never seen one but bet is it at least 600 mm in length. Vice grips at right angles is the go.

    It looks lovely and original back together. I'm puzzled by the flat washers.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Thanks for that contact information. I'd forgotten the huge "factory cap remover" tong device. I've never seen one but bet is it at least 600 mm in length. Vice grips at right angles is the go.

    It looks lovely and original back together. I'm puzzled by the flat washers.
    I've had a call from "one who knows", who did his apprenticeship on these cars if I recall. He says that those flat washers go between the gearbox housing and the side gearbox mounts.

    I suggest that what you need to find is a factory parts manual, as they have wonderful exploded diagrams of everything. Keep looking on ebay, including Ebay USA and Ebay UK.

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  15. #40
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    You can't use a metal bearing against a metal plate on the clutch unless it slides along a tube, in other words if it wipes sideways across the metal disc on the clutch it needs to be carbon. I have seen ball bearing style throwout bearings with a fine layer of carbon to cater for this. Without the carbon or lubrication the metal bearing will bind eventually.
    When Peugeot went to the metal style clutch throughout bearings in 1968, they used an entirely different style of lever incorporating a tube along which the bearing slid.


    Quote Originally Posted by geodon View Post
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    I'm preparing to re-mate the transmission & engine prior to painting.

    I was able to source rear wheel bearings & seals AND the seal for the mainshaft locally.

    At the clutch & brake place doing my rear linings, drum machining & sleeving the wheel cylinders, I showed them the uneven wear in the thrust bearing described above & asked if they could get a replacement.

    They not only came up with one, it was a metal one and it was also self-centering! I've never seen one like that before. That should overcome the rather imprecise factory set up. It's a bit thicker than the carbon one but I should be able to allow for that at the cable adjustment. I tried to show how much off centre movement there is with multiple photos

  16. #41
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    Default Progress!

    Thanks Graham.

    That's a pertinent comment. However VW replaced their carbons with a metal bearing as is. i.e. just clip the thing in. I never had a problem with them over 20 years. Many clutch replacements & the metal thrust bearings were always fine. I only replaced them if they came with the clutch kit. The carbons OTOH wore out damn quick & I doubt you can still buy them, for VW at least.

    John, thanks for the research. I'm an orderly chap on dismantling & am a profligate user of zip lock bags.

    As you can see I have my full compliment of nuts, spring & flat washers for the mounts. But your contact was right: the flat washers for the side mounts are identical to the ones in question.

    I'm certain I got it right. If you look carefully at the photos, you can see that the profile of the transmission case under the lower M10 nuts is shaped to take a flat washer.

    The engine & transmission are now painted. I will also put a coat of clear over it to toughen it up.




    1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0889.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0890.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0891.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0893.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0894.jpg
    Last edited by geodon; 15th January 2015 at 01:56 PM. Reason: grammar
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  17. #42
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    Serious shed envy going on here...

  18. #43
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    +1
    ...
    Any day I wake up and don't have to go to work, is a good day
    Every day is a good day

  19. #44
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    Default Not much going on here........

    .........due to urgent 404 work to get it off the trailer!

    In between waiting for paint to dry I repaired the carb air intake tube which had obviously been impaled by something.

    My 1st instinct was to get some pipe then do a cut & shut. But that may have altered the Angle of Dangle so I opted for microsurgery.

    Meh! It's a bit rough but if something works as it should & is out of sight, I'm not overly fussed.







    1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0971.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0973.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_0985.jpg
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  20. #45
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    That paint certainly went the distance!

  21. #46
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    Yes! That it did, old son! (He refers to the Dauphine power unit) BTW thanks for tip re KBS Diamond Clear. It's a damn bomb! When I do the undersides & engine bays etc, I will be putting this over the top of whatever is on the surface, paint or that textured stuff . It is def as tough as nails and can easily brushed on leaving no brush marks.
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  22. #47
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    Default I'm Still Here!

    Greetings Comrade Punters! I have not deserted the cause.

    I've been press-ganged onto other activities such as welding up about 20 racks for pot plants to go around 2 decks.

    I now have all I need to start re-assembly of the Dauphine power unit save for the rad hoses & vee belts. If anyone has ID numbers for these that would help.

    That unit I made to park the power unit on has been fabulous:

    Dauphine Power Unit Trolley/Work Station

    -in so far as I don't have to bend & work on the thing on the ground so I made up 2 more & modified an old drafting table for good measure. These are not only mobile work benches at a good ergonomic height, they also serve as stands to rest the vehicle carcass on when it has no wheels. This means I can shuffle them around to create working space in the workshop. I have to remove the front & rear ends of the Pug next & they will each have a mobile workstation.


    A word on castors: get them as big & as hard as you can. The ones I used on the stand for the Dauphine are leftovers and are too small & too soft hence it takes quite an effort to move it. BTW, don't waste the space under them as it's ideal for storing what belongs to whatever's on top. These are the castors I used:

    1X Swivel 125mm Grey NON Marking Urethane Castor 100kg | eBay

    I'm STILL going to be diverted for a while as I've suffered a bit of a catastrophe on the MGA; the dual (clutch/brake)master cylinder has leaked onto the firewall & lifted the paint. No way I will remove the engine & gearbox to strip & spray. This will be fixed by hand using a high density sponge roller. I don't believe in pristine engine bays. Once it gets a layer of grease & grime no one will know.

    1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1068.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1069.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1070.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1071.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1072.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1073.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1074.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1075.jpg
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    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  23. #48
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    Default Petrol lines

    1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1324.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1323.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1320.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1321.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1322.jpg


    OK I'm back.

    I finished the MGA hydraulic leak. You have to get close to "see" the repair work. My fault. "A stich in time saves 99". I kept putting it off till it became major.

    The reassembly of the Dauphine power unit is underway.

    The rubber fuel lines had oxidised to the point of solidification. I've replaced them with some 8mm woven-fabric coated air-cooled VW stuff. Now, these cars left the VW factory without hose clips on these lines so I'm leaving them as such. The early Beetles had a reputation for self immolation & most people blamed these "push-on & pray" connections. But it was due to 2 things: mainly people replacing the original with the Imperial equivalent (5/16ths) which felt the same but was actually a bit slacker and , more rarely, the fuel pump outlet spigot popping out of the fuel pump body WITH THE PUSH ON HOSE IN PLACE! That was a fault & I always grabbed the spigot with vice grips & tried to pull them put. If they came out, they went back with a bit of burring & Araldite.

    Now the Dauphine distributor: It's a simple blade drive but is it offset or can it be put in 180 degrees out?

    I marked it with liquid paper & I don't recall rotating the engine but wouldn't go in on the mark. It's gone in on the opposite to where I expected.

    ?? Maybe I DID rotate the motor.
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

  24. #49
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    That's a common problem on several car makes with diecast carbies and fuel pumps, and I've done the same as you with Araldite with complete success (so far... ). Simon has commented here that Araldite is not the ideal product, softening with time.

    Some of those 1950s and 1960s Renaults did indeed come with push-on rubber lines and no clamps. However, I wouldn't dream of taking that chance now even though your logic is probably correct. The French rubber piping was excellent quality at that time.

    You can carefully tap a thread into some of the diecast bodies and then screw in a standard brass fitting, probably the best solution.

    Good to see the progress - looking very tidy!
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  25. #50
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    Default Transmission Mounts

    1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1325.jpg1962 dauphine Gordini Project-img_1326.jpg

    Are these available locally?

    I need both sides. Or is that amount of disconnection serviceable?

    I WAS going to try to use high grade Sikaflex to attempt to re-stick them but, in view of them failing means the whole she-bang has to come out again, it may be false economy.

    Unless some one had tried it successfully??

    I'm guessing the rubber is vulcanised on. Has modern adhesive technology risen to these dizzy heights yet?
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility (Resto project)
    1962 Renault Dauphine Gordini (Resto project)
    1950 Grey Fergie Tractor

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