Richard's 205 GTi6 project
  • Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 8 12345 ... Last
Results 1 to 25 of 198
Like Tree54Likes

Thread: Richard's 205 GTi6 project

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,071

    Default Richard's 205 GTi6 project

    Finally starting on my long awaited 205 GTi6 project. The aim is for a nice fast road car that looks almost standard and doesn't rattle your teeth too much, but goes much harder than standard. The shell went in to the body shop this week for its respray, and mechanical parts will start to go out to people for work shortly.

    The plan is as follows:

    • I've bought a s3 shell - '93 steel grey GTI that's had a very light front end hit. The engine, gearbox, wheels, power steer, disc rear beam are all gone but its otherwise very straight, has a good dash, comes with some new parts for the front end re-build and it's cheap. I've also bought a Sorrento s3 that's not as straight - it will be the donor vehicle for all the parts missing from the steel grey shell. Anyone after other parts, let me know!
    • The grey shell's getting pretty much a bare metal respray - doors and guards off + most of the engine bay, inside boot etc being resprayed as well. I'll get the wheels from Sorrento refurbed, new bumper, new red trims, mostly new badges etc. It's costing a bit but will hopefully look beautiful when it's done.
    • I've got a GTi6 engine with supposedly about 110k km on it. We'll check the head, fit warmer cams, do basics like cam belts, crank seals etc. I'm still a little uncertain whether to run with Peter T cams and Haltec or CatCam 106 cams and a Pug1off ECU chipped to match. The Pug1Off option is cheaper and much less work, but I'm suspecting the Haltec may be better in the long run.
    • I hope to send the s3 gearbox from the Sorrento to Adrian Wuillemi for rebuild and 4.06 final drive. I've also got a Quaife to go in.
    • The current plan for suspension is for slightly lower Eibach springs at the front (though I note Peter T's preference to reset standard springs) and Bilstein B6s all round. The rear beam will be rebuilt, possibly with GTi6 arms and PatPug's recipe of 21mm Torsion Bars, cut down 24mm rear ARB but with Group N rear beam mounts.
    • For brakes I've got 206GTi front and back (ie, 266mm for the front) and will get braided lines all round and 23.8mm master cylinder.
    • Gear change will have a short shifter and Miles gear rods.
    • For the interior, there's a fairly good green interior to go into it, but I'm not certain if seats will match the planned standard of the rest of the car. And I'd really prefer red! Any leads welcome!
    • I'd love to be able to retain the A/C, but I know that's likely to be difficult.


    I think that's the basics. The respray is supposed to be done by end of October, which gives a little time to line up mechanicals, but it doesn't matter if things don't happen at breakneck speed as I'm still loving driving my Classic as well! I'll load up a couple of photos below of the shell as it stood this morning and the Sorrento about to be dismantled.

    Richard's 205 GTi6 project-img_0358.jpgRichard's 205 GTi6 project-img_0361.jpgRichard's 205 GTi6 project-img_0363.jpgRichard's 205 GTi6 project-img_0369.jpg

    All very exciting! All suggestions welcome....

    Richard


    Advertisement
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Richard's 205 GTi6 project-img_0363.jpg  
    Last edited by Richard W; 22nd April 2016 at 11:07 AM.

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    North Rocks, Sydney
    Posts
    2,009

    Default

    Go for the highest 5th gear you can find,0.865 will be too low for 4.063 FD. Mine has 0.757 (Mi16), pulls it easily (113km/h at 3172 RPM). I would like 0.685 (405 1.9 GRD) would be great on trips.

    When mine was dyno tuned, the tuner said that I should have left the Pug 306 ECU in the car, they are a lot better than the Haltec!

    I think Peter's site says that you can run his stage 1 cams on standard ECU.

    I would have thought that 124kw on the standard motor would be enough!

    Mine has A/C.


    Wait for it!!!
    Last edited by BIGRR; 27th September 2014 at 12:44 AM.
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Sunbury
    Posts
    339

    Default

    Great to see another 205 getting upgraded, as that part list is pretty much identical to mine, except yours will look standard, and I just hope mine will be quick on a track.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Michael



    1987 Peugeot 205 GTI
    Build Thread:
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...ti6-build.html

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,071

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BIGRR View Post
    Go for the highest 5th gear you can find,0.865 will be too low for 4.063 FD. Mine has 0.757 (Mi16), pulls it easily (113km/h at 3172 RPM). I would like 0.685 (405 1.9 GRD) would be great on trips.

    When mine was dyno tuned, the tuner said that I should have left the Pug 306 ECU in the car, they are a lot better than the Haltec!

    I think Peter's site says that you can run his stage 1 cams on standard ECU.

    I would have thought that 124kw on the standard motor would be enough!

    Mine has A/C.


    Wait for it!!!
    Thanks Robert. Re the A/C, is the difference on your car that the XSi manifold is shorter than the GTi6 item so you haven't had to move your radiator?

    I have had only one reasonably short drive of PatPug's car, but the extra power was addictive - a much bigger rush than a standard GTi6 engined car!

    My car isn't intended to be a long distance cruiser, but interesting thought about a longer 5th gear. Do others have views? Would you notice a big gap 4th to 5th? At the moment they feel quite close.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Castle Hill, Sydney
    Posts
    6,829

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BIGRR View Post
    When mine was dyno tuned, the tuner said that I should have left the Pug 306 ECU in the car, they are a lot better than the Haltec!
    Yes, but your model Haltech was also fitted to the XP Falcon. They've come a long way since then. There's so much more in them now. You've only got to look at Patpug's car. I think it was 108kW at the wheels and still climbing? It's a brilliant car, just copy his.

    As for 5th gear options, the big gap from 4th to 5th kills them on hilly & undulating roads. Here's some maths and I know Robert use to be an engineer, so he should be able to comprehend.

    Mi16x4 5th = 4.43 x 0.81 = 3.59:1

    Patpug's 5th = 4.06 x 0.865 = 3.51:1

    That's longer! And nobody ever said the Mi16x4 revved to high.

    Speak to Patpug about A/C. It is possible to keep it with a shortened Mi16 manifold, but I'm not sure about the GTi6 item.

    Also speak to Adrian about his rear beam bushes. They're the duck's guts.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts gezza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Bunbury
    Posts
    2,002

    Default

    Cant wait to see the finished result Richard :-)



    1990 Renault 5 GT turbo
    ####current rides####
    1994 205 gti 1.9 sorento green
    1988 205 gti 1.9 uk import grey
    2001 clio 172 sport ph1 #44/85
    1998 306 gti6. Blaze yellow
    1992 Honda Fireblade
    2013 Yamaha fzs sho Jetski
    1998 Supra RZ twin turbo white
    1999 Wrx classic gc8 sonic blue



  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,071

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    You've only got to look at Patpug's car. I think it was 108kW at the wheels and still climbing? It's a brilliant car, just copy his.
    That's pretty much the plan - except I'd keep the power steering, hopefully keep A/C, Group N rather than solid rear beam mount (though I'll ask about Adrian's) and original Peugeot bushes at the front (I think I've found them all). I'm basically aiming for a tiny bit softer and slightly shinier version of PatPug's car. Does that sound like it should work?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    Mi16x4 5th = 4.43 x 0.81 = 3.59:1

    Patpug's 5th = 4.06 x 0.865 = 3.51:1

    That's longer! And nobody ever said the Mi16x4 revved to high.

    Speak to Patpug about A/C. It is possible to keep it with a shortened Mi16 manifold, but I'm not sure about the GTi6 item.

    Also speak to Adrian about his rear beam bushes. They're the duck's guts.
    I drove Hicho's car with 4.06 and normal s3 5th gear and it seemed great. Mind you, I wasn't exactly 'cruising'.

    Peter - do you think I would lose much power with a shortened Mi16 manifold instead of the GTi6 item?

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! chez00's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    566

    Default

    What's the incentive of running the mi16 manifold? I've kinda done the opposite and am running a gti6 manifold on my mi16 (iron block). I'm not running ac but reckon it would fit. The gti6 manifold is a work of art, you'd be mad to swap it if you ask me.

    Sounds like a very tasteful build, quite similar to mine really, except I have kept stock shocks and springs, 24mm ARB. I opted for a stage 1 inlet cam from Peter, running a Vipec. I have a 4.43 final drive with a 0,865 5th which should be interesting, haha.
    1988 205 GTi XU10J4
    2001 406 Monaco 5sp V6

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Castle Hill, Sydney
    Posts
    6,829

    Default

    I agree. Don't use Mi16 if you have GTi6 manifold.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,071

    Default

    OK - I was only going to consider it if you said it would solve AC problem with no significant loss of power.

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    North Rocks, Sydney
    Posts
    2,009

    Default

    Richard's 205 GTi6 project-dsc09532.jpgRichard's 205 GTi6 project-dsc03373.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
    Thanks Robert. Re the A/C, is the difference on your car that the XSi manifold is shorter than the GTi6 item so you haven't had to move your radiator?
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
    Without measuring I think that the XSi manifold may be minutely longer than the GTi-6 manifold. But it was hard to fit A/C and the standard 205 fans in there!!

    I have had only one reasonably short drive of PatPug's car, but the extra power was addictive - a much bigger rush than a standard GTi6 engined car!

    My car isn't intended to be a long distance cruiser, but interesting thought about a longer 5th gear. Do others have views? Would you notice a big gap 4th to 5th? At the moment they feel quite close.
    [UTUBE]I have used my car on trips (Sydney - Adelaide, Melbourne & Brisbane) quite a few times, and have found the 5th = 4.06 x 0.757 = 3.07:1 to be quite good, however higher would be better for me when cruising. My car will pull (comfortably) from 1500RPM in 5th up North Rocks Road. In mine if the gap between 4th (0.969) and 5th (changing at around 6000RPM) on a public road is noticed then, someone should be in gaol!

    However I have noticed that at the drag strip the gap between 3rd (1.28) and 4th (0.969) is too great, the GTI (1.069) would be far better.

    I guess it's horses for courses!
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! patpug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    614

    Default

    Gday Rich, I can't believe I've not stumbled on this thread until now!?!?

    Good on you for taking the plunge though mate, you won't look back, well you will because everybody will be behind you, apart from maybe me ;-)

    I'm not sure if I had my 8v gti / 4.06 box in the car when you drove it, but it is absolutely spot on for a fast road car. I am not running either a/c or pas, although I have a xsara 'quick' rack and pump sitting in the shed waiting for me to fit it, I just really love the way my car steers as is so am reluctant to change it. Parking is a bit of a pain but worth it once you get into the twisties.

    I'm sorry, I just can't see the point of a/c though on these cars :-)

    You should have another drive of my car, I've just replaced the hydraulic lifters and wishbone bushes - the little beasty is going better than ever, happy days...
    205 gti-6

    205 track car build in progress http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,071

    Default

    Slowly progressing on this project. Most of the car is now in primer, with only the engine bay still to be prepped. Hopefully should be in colour next week. Very exciting!

    I've now got most of the trim parts I need - still looking for driver's side headlight - and I've tracked down all genuine Pug bushes, drop links etc for the front suspension rebuild. The little stockpile of parts is growing...

    An initial check of my engine shows a leaking inlet valve on cylinder #1 and scoring on the bores, so it looks like it will have to be at least a hone of bores and new rings. When I'm going that far, where do you stop?

    I'll upload some photos tonight.

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,071

    Default

    Progress photos...

    The s1 wheels are just on the car to move it about at the moment. Refurbished s3 SMRs will go on when its finished.

    Richard's 205 GTi6 project-mms_img269366302.jpgRichard's 205 GTi6 project-mms_img-563291137.jpgRichard's 205 GTi6 project-mms_img-1071520592.jpgRichard's 205 GTi6 project-mms_img-1412914146.jpgRichard's 205 GTi6 project-mms_img1678946944.jpgRichard's 205 GTi6 project-mms_img-2015718047.jpgRichard's 205 GTi6 project-mms_img1328823139.jpgRichard's 205 GTi6 project-mms_img-855487950.jpg
    lion5 likes this.

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! deltone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    389

    Default

    Looking good! Cant wait to follow this thread as it unfolds!
    205 GTi T16

    205 CTi

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Castle Hill, Sydney
    Posts
    6,829

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
    so it looks like it will have to be at least a hone of bores and new rings. When I'm going that far, where do you stop?
    Fit new 86.50mm pistons. The overall cost won't be significantly more. I'd talk to Chez00 about those Mahle pistons he bought. Seemed like excellent value.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,071

    Default

    Thanks Peter

    I thought I had a VIN for the car my engine came out of. Turns out the VIN is wrong, which causes a problem for ordering or checking parts prices.

    I believe my engine is a later series engine, but I don't really know. I want to check prices for things like: VRS kit, main bearings, rod bearings, pistons, rings, lifters, timing belt kit, water pump. Are all these parts going to be the same on any XU10J4RS engine, or do I need to work out exactly what year my engine is?

    Is anyone able to provide me with a 306GTi6 VIN that I could use for getting parts prices please? Or is there some way I can look this up from the engine number?

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! patpug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    614

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
    Thanks Peter

    I thought I had a VIN for the car my engine came out of. Turns out the VIN is wrong, which causes a problem for ordering or checking parts prices.

    I believe my engine is a later series engine, but I don't really know. I want to check prices for things like: VRS kit, main bearings, rod bearings, pistons, rings, lifters, timing belt kit, water pump. Are all these parts going to be the same on any XU10J4RS engine, or do I need to work out exactly what year my engine is?

    Is anyone able to provide me with a 306GTi6 VIN that I could use for getting parts prices please? Or is there some way I can look this up from the engine number?
    Just checked, thought I had one but it turns out it's for an S16, sorry.

    I do have a Citroen Xsara VTS VIN though if that helps - everything the same EXCEPT the timing belt tensioner system I think... Bit of a punt I know but if you don't get a gti6 number maybe an acceptable workaround...

    Bloody parts people are lazy these days - you ever used to need a VIN but don't get me started on that one. You can sign yourself up to servicebox, select 306 and do a bit of detective work to find the correct parts. That's my method.

    Pat
    205 gti-6

    205 track car build in progress http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Sunbury
    Posts
    339

    Default

    I have a gti6 parts car, will pm you the vin if you still want it. Downside is it will be next Friday before I csn check it.

    Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2
    Michael



    1987 Peugeot 205 GTI
    Build Thread:
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...ti6-build.html

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,071

    Default

    Many thanks Michael. Andrew Ch has very kindly provided me with a VIN that I can use to get some quotes.

    However, since I don't know what year my motor is, it would still assist me greatly if anyone can confirm whether the parts I listed above should be common across all years of GTi6 engines - or do I need to work out what year my engine is and make sure I get a VIN from a car of the right production date? Are all GTi6 engine rings, head gasket sets, big end bearings etc the same, or are there production changes I need to be careful of?

    Pat - thanks for the offer of the Xsara VTS VIN. I suspect I have the same VIN from the same source, and have already used that to get a price for a Xsara timing belt kit, which I have been told is better to use than the older GTi6 set-up.

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! patpug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    614

    Default

    No worries, and I agree, the VTS has a better automatic tensioner. Get on service box for both Pug and Cit and play around with manufacturing g dates and you'll work out what's the same and what's not between years/models.
    205 gti-6

    205 track car build in progress http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! chez00's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    566

    Default

    Pretty sure all the internals are the same on the Gti6 donks but I'll compare against the listings I have at work. I can quote you up on all those bits you need via my business - I'll drop you a pm on Monday if you're keen?

    I ended up getting forged Wiseco pistons in 86.5mm for my project. They were about the same cost as Mahle cast 86.6mm OEM replacement, (US$588 with rings - can't quite remember freight costs) but they took 6 weeks to make. I got them from flatlanderracing.com, part # K422M865C

    There's no real need for the forged option if you can get the cast option - There were only 3 in Australia though last time I checked!
    Last edited by chez00; 1st November 2014 at 04:32 PM.
    1988 205 GTi XU10J4
    2001 406 Monaco 5sp V6

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Bondi
    Posts
    2,935

    Default

    Chez, you going 88.5! Or 86.5?

    Cam

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! chez00's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    566

    Default

    Sorry typo - 86.5mm.
    1988 205 GTi XU10J4
    2001 406 Monaco 5sp V6

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,071

    Default

    My engine builder is suggesting decking the block for a bit more compression, smoothing cylinder head ports to increase airflow and polishing combustion chambers. Thoughts???

    Chez - I've now found sources for parts but if you were able to provide a comparison that would be great.

    Cheers
    Richard

Page 1 of 8 12345 ... Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •