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Thread: Richard's 205 GTi6 project

  1. #101
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    A bit of an update on this project...

    As referred to above, I ended up ordering pistons from Pure Performance Motorsport (or PPM) in Melbourne. That wasn't a good call.

    I thought I was supporting Aussie manufactured product. In fact, PPM just import from overseas and add their margin. The website said the pistons were $1000 - but when you go to pay it's only then that they add GST, so they were actually $1,100. The website also said the pistons were "in stock". In fact, they weren't in stock - PPM doesn't even get them manufactured until after payment. When I first started chasing them, I was promised the pistons would be another week. 5 weeks later they still hadn't arrived and Thomas at PPM just refuses to answer calls or email.

    Eventually, after 2 months the "in stock" pistons arrive, and it's only then that we see that the pistons have a different compression height to what was advertised and require different size little ends - which wasn't disclosed on the website. So now we have to wait another 4 weeks for new rods before the engine can move forward again.

    I threatened a tribunal action against PPM and managed to extract a refund of about half my payment, but the whole fiasco still puts the project back several months. I understand that others have had similar experiences with PPM.

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    Oh well, it's going to be beautiful one day!!

  2. #102
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Thats killer Rich!

    I dont know how companies like that stay in business.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by cam85 View Post
    Thats killer Rich!

    I dont know how companies like that stay in business.
    Its pretty rotten.

    Sorry to hear it.


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  4. #104
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. It's frustrating but at the end of the day the car is a toy so I suppose it's not the end of the world - apart from stuffing Huw around on trying to timetable his work. After all this I understand I'll also need Huw to work out what head gasket I'll need to get compression back to where it should be with the different compression height. The thin Cometic gasket that I bought will definitely be wrong, so once we can work that out I understand there may be a further couple of weeks added to the timeline to order a gasket of right thickness (unless I am lucky and standard gasket will be okay)

  5. #105
    Fellow Frogger! SilverGTi_6's Avatar
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    That sux mate, sorry to hear.
    Lotus Evora
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  6. #106
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    At least my acquisition of your crank etc offsets the introduction of the new bits. Enjoy it no luck is necesary with this its quite obvious he knows his stuff and delivers.
    87 S1 205 GTI / GTI6 powered a project underway
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  7. #107
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    Thanks Matthew - it definitely helps! Hopefully it helps you setting yours up too...


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  8. #108
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cam85 View Post

    [...]

    I dont know how companies like that stay in business.
    That's how:

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard W View Post

    [...]

    I thought I was supporting Aussie manufactured product.

    [...]
    100Euro DHL got me a piston/liner kit from France in five days.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  9. #109
    Fellow Frogger! Bluey's Avatar
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    Things are getting serious.







    It's time for tedious, painstaking measuring and calculating. Now where did I put my Abacus?
    FIVEDOOR and Richard W like this.

  10. #110
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Nice. What CR will that be?

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    Nice. What CR will that be?
    According to the box, 11.5:1. According to the real world, haven't measured it yet.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Things are getting serious.







    It's time for tedious, painstaking measuring and calculating. Now where did I put my Abacus?
    Dang, I'm going to need a supercharger now....
    205 gti-6

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  13. #113
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    According to the box, 11.5:1. According to the real world, haven't measured it yet.
    I've been over and over the domed 86.5mm pistons I have. Whether I measure by syringe or CAD, it comes out at 13.8:1 with a standard head gasket. No choice but to machine the dome. Dome height is 5.0mm. Yours looks a tad lower?

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  14. #114
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    Real world compression ratio of the pistons is

    12.6:1

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  15. #115
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    Depending on cam choice that could be ok with ethanol.
    1988 205 GTi XU10J4
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  16. #116
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    But I don't want to run ethanol!

    A shame that PPM pistons aren't what they say on the box. Engine Mk2 will be bigger and better, but I'm going to be very happy when it is built and we can get back to where we were in the project before Christmas when it was discovered that I (or my beautiful little son?) had got water in the combustion chamber of engine Mk1.

  17. #117
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    12.6? wow tighten down the head bolts more and hang on What's the highest you can run on 98?

  18. #118
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    I would also highlight to PPM that is illegal to advertise a price exclusive of fat, they can and should be reported for this.

  19. #119
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    Ah bugger, that is pretty damn high without ethanol. Sounds like you should be hitting them up for machining costs to knock down the dome.

    Shame you had a crappy experience with PPM, I've never heard of them. Their website does say pretty clearly that Australian orders will incur 10% GST though. This is pretty common practice for Australian companies that export. I've always thought it would be easier to say prices include GST and exports are exempt, not sure on legalities either way.
    1988 205 GTi XU10J4
    2001 406 Monaco 5sp V6

  20. #120
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    People suck at math, that is why. It is easier to advertise price without GST and then anyone can add another 10% on top of that to find the final cost, whereas if they told you the total cost, not many people would know they had to subtract 1/11 of that number from that number to get the GST free price.

    Plus, for people from overseas the percentage of GST we apply here might be completely unknown and is totally irrelevant.

    What is difficult for me to understand is how can they claim they sell an Oz made product when it obviously isn't. And I wonder, do they (or we) pay import duties on that when it comes here?
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  21. #121
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    PPM? Don't get me started. You wouldn't believe what I've been through with 'him'. Classic internet trader.

  22. #122
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    This thread is getting a little off topic so Richard, perhaps let us have an update on your project?

    For those interested, my understanding is that in Australia the law is that if you quote a price and do not say that it excludes GST, then the consumer is entitled to assume it includes GST. Therefore, it is OK to advertise $X plus GST.

  23. #123
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    In relation to whether you must include GST in advertised prices, the relevant law is set out in s48 of the Australian Consumer Law. That provides that any advertised price in Australia for goods of a kind that are ordinarily acquired for personal, domestic or household use must be quoted on an all inclusive basis - ie, you must include GST in the advertised price and just saying "plus GST" is illegal - even if you export most of your product.

    There could be room for debate as to whether this law applies to pistons, depending on whether you would say that pistons are "goods ordinarily acquired for personal use".

    I have had, shall we say, 'robust' discussions with PPM and ended up getting half my money back . But I would still much rather if I could have just dealt with someone in the first place who was honest and sold product that matches what they advertise. Still - we're closing that chapter and moving on.

    In the meantime, the interior is complete and the next step is that the car will hopefully be going back to Huw in a week or two's time. Once the motor is built again we can get back to the install...
    Last edited by Richard W; 28th April 2016 at 03:29 PM.

  24. #124
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    So now Huw has determined that the PPM pistons won't be able to be modified to bring compression down to what we want. So the whole order and wait process for new pistons starts again...

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  25. #125
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Bugger!!!!!
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


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