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  1. #1
    Member flock's Avatar
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    Default Mk I 205 sleeper

    Hi everyone, this is my first post on Aussiefrogs after a long time lurking. I figured I would kick off with a restoration thread. A few months ago I bought a 1987 205 GTI 1.9 for $1200 (209k) with hopes of restoring and improving it to replace my daily drive and maybe a track car once I get a company car.

    It is in very average condition. The body is dead straight, with some dings and such as far as I know it has just been sitting for a long time in someones driveway so it hasnt copped any abuse. Suspension is in poor shape, I am going to replace the lot with new bushes, uprated shocks and a rear beam rebuild. Steering has a bit of play. The engine runs very well; starts every time with no smoke. It has a clicky sound which I suspect is either the lifters or injectors. Are these usually audibly clicky? Gearbox may need replacing with its linkages.

    Before I do any major work I am still debating what to do with the engine. I am definitely going to upgrade the brakes from either the S16 or GTI6. I am not on a shoestring budget, but I want the money I spend to be close to the amount I can insure it for (3-4.5k). Eventually I want a 16v in it. If i can find a cheap/wrecked S16 or GTI6 I will take the brakes/engine/gearbox out and transplant them. I would love the XU10J4RS, with a 5speed, but I am worried about how hard they are to work on once they are in the car, not to mention the work that goes into fitting them in. I could also take the alloy Mi16 route but they are hard to find in respectable condition for a good price.

    If anybody has any comments or recommendations I am open to suggestions. I expect i will be asking a lot more questions in the coming months.

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    Here are some pics of my baby looking a bit sad at the moment.

    Mk I 205 sleeper-1779899_10201568682559958_1764585829_n.jpg Mk I 205 sleeper-1508066_10201568681719937_2034216488_n.jpg

    The previous owner decided it would be a good idea to put 206 seats in it, which did not go down well at all. They were the first things to be ripped out with the original seats put back in.

    Mk I 205 sleeper-1781226_10201447399647961_2022514994_o.jpg

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! Edd205's Avatar
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    Welcome! I was just about to post some gti6 front calipers in the for sale section but came up on your post.
    Pm me if you're interested and good luck with the 205.

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Hi, I can see three possible routes:

    1. Restore it back to original condition, engine included.
    2. Restore it back to original condition, modified 8V engine.
    3. Restore it but insert a 16V engine and keep the 8V, so you can put it back with matching engine numbers.

    Regardless of the 16V engine choice, they're all starting to get long in the tooth. You'll be looking at reconditioning costs in some way or another. GTi6 engines are over priced. Mi16 1.9L engines can be picked up for a carton of beer. The other choices are somewhere in between. It's easier to fit the 1.9L and given there is no capacity increase, rego may be easier in QLD. Not often considered, the XU10J4R is also an easy fit compared to the XU10J4 or XU10J4RS.

    I'd stay clear of GTi6 brakes. Aside from being a lot heavier, rotor choices are limited. Stick with a 266mm size brake from S16 or many other 306/206 models.

    A quality aftermarket ECU will be an asset with what ever you decide.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Agree with Peter.

    Your 4-5k will not get you anywhere near a 16v conversion considering you will need new bushes, shocks, rebuilt beam, new linkages (your gearbox is likly to be ok, linkages wear lots) and pribably a whole host of pipes and such.

    I would.

    Get the suspension up to perfect nick as they are aweful to drive otherwise and enjoy it for at least a month before modifying it! Get used to it before you add more power. They are unbeatable in the turns but deserve respect. Adding more power makes them silly fast for how big/safe they are!

    Car looks to be nice and straight. Good on you for having a crack! There is all the info you need on here to bring it to life. Dont upgrade the brakes untill you need to. They are a light car.

    Cam

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    As above. Better tyres too will certainly make a difference in cornering speed once the suspension is up to scratch.


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    1987 Peugeot 205 GTI
    Build Thread:
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...ti6-build.html

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    Thanks for the replies guys!

    I will definitely do the suspension first and then reevaluate my budget after that.

    As for brakes i will go with the 266mm- the 283mm from the 6 seem like overkill especially when they add that unsprung weight. I also want to try to keep my 14" pepperpots I love them. Im going to need a 1.9 hub carrier and rear trailing arms with discs however. I have read that the 1.6 driveshafts are weak in comparison to the 1.9 shafts. Is this true and will this be an issue? If not I might as well just get base hub carriers and keep my 1.6 shafts.

    Good tyres is definitely a must I agree, pay no attention to what it has now with that picture. I am still debating on whether I should get 15" wheels for the bigger brakes yet.

    With an aftermarket ECU can I expect to get around the same power out of my XU9JA as the 1.9's in Europe? I don't think its legal to remove the cat as far as I am aware. The money going in to get it tuned and getting a motronic flywheel etc is close to getting a 16v wouldnt you think? This is disregarding the cost to overhaul either engine.

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    Hi mate - Well done on the model selection - 'bout time there is a force of 205's in sunny Queensland. Are you doing the work yourself? If so, you'll save yourself a heap of money in labor costs. If you need parts, get onto FISH as he is moving out of QLD soon so part supply will then be limited up here. ....sniff!

    Be good to catch up with you. What side of Brissy are you on?
    ....now watch a Peugeot turn into a corner!

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    PugMonkey I hardly ever see 205s in Queensland whats going on?! Yeah I have a Haynes Manual and my mate has owned a few 205s and a GTI6- he was the one who got me into pugs. Ill send FISH a PM. Id love to catch up and see a good example of a worked 205, I live in Paddington but the car is at Annerley. PM me if you want to meet up.

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    The GTi6 brakes as well as being heavier give you a very touchy pedal, even in the GTi6 they are too sensitive.
    The Series 1 brakes are rubbish, but just fit the 306 1.8 8 valve brakes, same as S3 205 and these will do all you want.
    I have these on my rally car with standard pads and didn't fade them on a 20 km downhill stage, got quickest time so we weren't hanging around.
    You would need to fit Si (base model) hubs to fit any later brakes while using your early driveshafts.

    Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by flock View Post
    Hi everyone, this is my first post on Aussiefrogs after a long time lurking. I figured I would kick off with a restoration thread. A few months ago I bought a 1987 205 GTI 1.9 for $1200 (209k) with hopes of restoring and improving it to replace my daily drive and maybe a track car once I get a company car.

    It is in very average condition. The body is dead straight, with some dings and such as far as I know it has just been sitting for a long time in someones driveway so it hasnt copped any abuse. Suspension is in poor shape, I am going to replace the lot with new bushes, uprated shocks and a rear beam rebuild. Steering has a bit of play. The engine runs very well; starts every time with no smoke. It has a clicky sound which I suspect is either the lifters or injectors. Are these usually audibly clicky? Gearbox may need replacing with its linkages.

    Before I do any major work I am still debating what to do with the engine. I am definitely going to upgrade the brakes from either the S16 or GTI6. I am not on a shoestring budget, but I want the money I spend to be close to the amount I can insure it for (3-4.5k). Eventually I want a 16v in it. If i can find a cheap/wrecked S16 or GTI6 I will take the brakes/engine/gearbox out and transplant them. I would love the XU10J4RS, with a 5speed, but I am worried about how hard they are to work on once they are in the car, not to mention the work that goes into fitting them in. I could also take the alloy Mi16 route but they are hard to find in respectable condition for a good price.

    If anybody has any comments or recommendations I am open to suggestions. I expect i will be asking a lot more questions in the coming months.

    Here are some pics of my baby looking a bit sad at the moment.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The previous owner decided it would be a good idea to put 206 seats in it, which did not go down well at all. They were the first things to be ripped out with the original seats put back in.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1781226_10201447399647961_2022514994_o.jpg 
Views:	415 
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  10. #10
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    ECU upgrade won't change the power at all (if the mixture is correct then changing the ECU can't improve on that) but may make it more drivable. This is assuming your air flow meter is OK.
    Power loss in these engines is down to lower compression, smaller valves and milder cam.


    Quote Originally Posted by flock View Post
    Thanks for the replies guys!

    I will definitely do the suspension first and then reevaluate my budget after that.

    As for brakes i will go with the 266mm- the 283mm from the 6 seem like overkill especially when they add that unsprung weight. I also want to try to keep my 14" pepperpots I love them. Im going to need a 1.9 hub carrier and rear trailing arms with discs however. I have read that the 1.6 driveshafts are weak in comparison to the 1.9 shafts. Is this true and will this be an issue? If not I might as well just get base hub carriers and keep my 1.6 shafts.

    Good tyres is definitely a must I agree, pay no attention to what it has now with that picture. I am still debating on whether I should get 15" wheels for the bigger brakes yet.

    With an aftermarket ECU can I expect to get around the same power out of my XU9JA as the 1.9's in Europe? I don't think its legal to remove the cat as far as I am aware. The money going in to get it tuned and getting a motronic flywheel etc is close to getting a 16v wouldnt you think? This is disregarding the cost to overhaul either engine.

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  11. #11
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    As Graham said, no more top end power, but it will improve everything else due to more accurate mapping/more load points. If you want to retain the original appearance, remove the flap from the AFM and retain the original air temp sensor. Any modern ECU should be able to read the values, or invert if necessary.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Capago's Avatar
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    Mk I 205 sleeper-10570449_601722149947516_6941073362199182917_n.jpg
    The wrong oil is better than no oil at all.

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    Given my driving experience with 205's which is pretty minimal as of yet, I will probably stick with my 8v for now at least. Any faster in a daily drive would be a death wish in a car wrapped in paper. Has anyone had experience buying from GSF or Micksgarage for a bulk order of service parts or is there a better alternative? Im afraid postage will be a stinger.

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    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Post up what you need. Ill do my best to help you locate parts. Ive bought lots of stuff recently and most of it is NLA but we have managed to find some good replacement gear.

    Cam

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    Its been a while since I last came on here, uni and work take their toll on me I had a week off last week so I got to doing me some pugrades.

    I managed to get a rear beam for a reasonable price from stew at peugeotech in Brisbane. It still only has the drum brake trailing arms but when I do the eventual brake upgrade I will rebuild the beam at the same time. Gave it a quick recolour over the weekend to freshen it up. P

    Attachment 59869

    I also got a steering rack which ive regreased and changed the boots.

    Managed to find some 4 new Silverstone ftz rr tyres for ~400 to fit my pepperpots which I resprayed in T16 white

    Mk I 205 sleeper-1408671964499.jpg

    However when I got them balanced matey told me one of them is buckled which is a pain so I'm going to have to respray and fit the tyre on the spare wheel. I know they are ridiculous for my purposes but the price was good and i want 15" speed lines eventually.

    I ordered a mk2 dash at the start of the year on ebay for $60 which was sitting at a mates in the uk. The description said it was the full kit but it finally got delivered on the weekend and its missing quite a few bits. If anyone knows of anyone selling dash internals I'm interested.

    Another thing, does anybody know how tell if my calipers are bendix/Bosch or Lucas? I'm on micksgarage getting some pads for the 1.6 discs I have right now.

    About to do a big order of parts to get this thing on the road

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  16. #16
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    Put on a near newly-refurbished rear beam last weekend, quickly painted it up. My old one had collapsed resulting in the rear left wheel to rub on the arches, plus the Monroe struts were gone! It still has drum trailing arms but that isn't on the agenda yet. It was surprisingly easy to replace with 3 guys and a trolley jack.

    Mk I 205 sleeper-1604776_10203083027257629_2651927366704618251_n.jpg
    Freshly painted in a Talbot sort of colour scheme.

    Mk I 205 sleeper-1510484_10203083026857619_1977642885030935394_n.jpg
    Had the driveway turned into a workshop - we were changing the exhaust system on my mate's FZ6R at the same time.

    Mk I 205 sleeper-10805_10154857820145258_8930023589954891853_n.jpg
    New beam in with GTI-6 rear shocks

    Mk I 205 sleeper-10422579_10154857819175258_3653195125010531240_n.jpg
    With the spare wheel cage still out I took the opportunity to derust, prime, paint and then seal the rear underbody with icky bitumen paint.

    Mk I 205 sleeper-10641051_10203083026657614_2467830487907086190_n.jpg
    Bonus drum and tyre picture

    I still need to replace the handbrake cables and replace the fluid. The shoes were in pretty good condition. I am just not sure whether to replace the cylinder seals if they end up falling apart with the new fluid.

    More posts to come...

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    1000+ Posts lion5's Avatar
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    nice work. What car was the rear beam from? Did you sort out your front calipers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lion5 View Post
    nice work. What car was the rear beam from? Did you sort out your front calipers?
    I got the beam from another MK I 205 which was getting scrapped for parts from Stew at Peugeotech. I have a refurbishment kit which Im going to use on the old beam with 306 trailing arms eventually.

    The brake upgrade is low on the agenda at the moment since I have already got new rotors and pads for the front with my big order of parts.

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    Member flock's Avatar
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    It's time for an update. It's been over a year and I've finally got the car back in my possession.

    Decided on tackling what I could of the engine. It's been a learning process but I am happy with what I've achieved. Things done so far
    - Timing belt, coolant pump, tensioner

    - Crank, cam and rear seals

    - Sump gasket was the leakiest of everything
    Mk I 205 sleeper-1458434510879.jpg
    Cleaned the strainer as well

    - I took to changing the clutch as it seemed to be slipping sometimes. Turned out to be just a lot of oil inside the bellhousing:
    Mk I 205 sleeper-1458434742606.jpg

    - Freshly skimmed flywheel
    Mk I 205 sleeper-1458434884516.jpg

    One question I do have is if there is a pilot bearing that as it seems to just be a large bore.

  20. #20
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    Well I had to say goodbye to the old girl as the rust was so bad I would have needed an entire front end all the way to the firewall, the seams above the rear window had started rotting away and inside the cabin there was sweat rust everywhere on the inside of the panels. Well beyond my expertise and not worth the money to fix up.

    Lesson learned though. I do warn people that if you have a car that has had a prang in its lifetime inspect all seams in the vicinity, especially if it's an early series 1 which weren't full galved. I didn't have a clue until started pulling the car apart and poked around with a screwdriver.



    Onto new beginnings, this is my new car and sadly the only picture so far.






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  21. #21
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    Well it sounds like you can utilise most of your mechanicals for the new one so you may as well keep plugging away. Silver is a great colour.
    S3 205 GTI x 4
    2013 Fiesta ST
    MK6 GTI Edition 35

    Previous: 1988 205 GTI Mi16 Turbo, Mk1Golf, MkV GTI , RCS 172 x2 , 306 S16, VW Bora V6 4motion

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    Quote Originally Posted by flock View Post

    Lesson learned though. I do warn people that if you have a car that has had a prang in its lifetime inspect all seams in the vicinity, especially if it's an early series 1 which weren't full galved.
    OK, I'd like to track down this view that early 205s weren't 'full galved'. I've seen this mentioned before on other forums, but interested in the veracity of it.

    I've got a number of 205 brochures going back to the initial release back in '83 and all the way up to '93 vintage and they all say the same thing... including 6 year anti-corrosion warranties.

    "Corrosion resistant zinc or galvanised plated panels are used in vulnerable areas or areas that would be difficult to protect after assembly." There is never mention of 'full galv' and I'm sure they would mention it if this had been an issue.

    There are multiple follow on processes, phosphating, cataphoretic bath, yaada yaada... all up 10 stages to final topcoat/lacquer.

    As the Series 1s are at the end of that series production (June-Oct 87) I'd be surprised if our GTis would suffer from specific corrosion if this was indeed an issue showing up as the 205s had been in production for close to 4 years.

    griffo

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    What is better than a 205?

    2 (Two) 205s!
    lozenge and zaccy like this.
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


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    1000+ Posts gezza's Avatar
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    None of the gtis are fully galvanised sadly some areas were apparently coated but i doubt that too, having cone from the uk and seen 100s of them all suffer tin rot everywere eventually :-(



    1990 Renault 5 GT turbo
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    1988 205 gti 1.9 uk import grey
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    1998 306 gti6. Blaze yellow
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    Quote Originally Posted by gezza View Post
    None of the gtis are fully galvanised sadly some areas were apparently coated but i doubt that too, having cone from the uk and seen 100s of them all suffer tin rot everywere eventually :-(
    Gezza, I don't doubt what you have observed, but my point is that there is this view/myth? circulating around that early 205s were not "full galv" and later ones possibly were but this does not seem to be backed up by anything published in their brochures.

    All these consistently say are some parts are zinc coated and some galvanised.

    I'm sure if they had changed and improved the processes that they would be shouting it from the roof tops and maybe even offered longer anti-corrosion warranties.

    I think there may be other factors involved here.

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