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Thread: 1959 Floride Restoration

  1. #51
    My Supermodel 63-1092's Avatar
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    This is my Floride as it sits now, still with a big indentation in the side of a power pole.
    I have thought about a custom fuel tank above the gearbox or up higher under the parcel shelf, or even a custom one for its original location to miss the stabiliser bars, but that's about it "thought" haven't got serious into my research for this, yet.

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    John
    Александър Кристоф Шанел

  2. #52
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    Thanks for the comments and info. The engine will look something like my Gordini set up but the air box will face forward.

    1959 Floride Restoration-tri335.jpg

    The front radiator is a definite. With a rear radiator even after a year of trying every cooling upgrade possible with custom PWR competition rads, increasing radiator area 20%, increasing fan flow rate, etc etc the Gordini would get up to 90 very quickly on a hot day at 110kph. When I moved the rad to the front is sits on 75 to 80 at 120 kph even at 38 degree ambient. No further testing or experimenting required.

    1959 Floride Restoration-tri8811.jpg

    I believe the tank that came with my "Floride" is R10/R8. The rear firewall panel that covers the tank seems to be missing as I continue to learn about Florides and Caravelles and sort through all the parts. The Caravelle at the Sydney event last Sunday was something to see and was a good example to take some detailed pics of.

    1959 Floride Restoration-tri9ebf.jpg 1959 Floride Restoration-tri5859.jpg

    The front and rear suspension is all R10 with discs so its really more Caravelle than Floride.

  3. #53
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    A Floride, Dauphine and 4CV have a natural air flow, its the Caravelle, R10 and R8 that are arse about.
    Some people seem to forget this, me included when I was playing around with cooling, which is why I went with the way it was set up originally, problem solved.
    A Floride and Caravelle look similar but are very different in many areas, so in my eyes a successful Floride is a Floride not a Caravelled one.
    John
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by 63-1092 View Post
    This is my Floride as it sits now, still with a big indentation in the side of a power pole.
    I have thought about a custom fuel tank above the gearbox or up higher under the parcel shelf, or even a custom one for its original location to miss the stabiliser bars, but that's about it "thought" haven't got serious into my research for this, yet.
    I like the idea of that radiator fed from the side inlets mainly because it is so hard to stop warm air getting inside the foot area during summer with a front radiator. A custom tank in the front spare wheel area would be my choice for weight distribution and ease of installation.

    Do your fans run all the time when you're up over 80k with good air flow or only in slow traffic ? Mine in the Gordini are set to come on at 75 C radiator temp. They switch off when it gets up around 80k so I know the airflow works well.

  5. #55
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    I would.....Fit the radiator in front, fit the tank of an R8 at the back where they are in standard form and then fit an electric water pump. The alternator will then be the only thing driven from the back and that you can mount low to clear the tank.

    With all due respect to John with his install, I am almost sure that on a warm day on the open road with a slight incline you will be able to raise the temp to very high temperatures. The hp of your 16TS with Side draught Webers on will generate a bit more energy/heat that will not cool down. You will not be able to start a hill at 100-110 and keep the speed constant and keep the temp at safe levels. For instance, I cannot overheat my race car even if I want to, but I can raise the temperature on my R1135 with a steep hill, and if that is 8 or 10 km long I will have to start managing it.

    Frans.
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  6. #56
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Forgot to mention, mount the radiator in front almost horizontal and the warm wind will never get to your feet. I have the radiator lying in the spare wheel compartment almost horizontal with fluted plastic sides and top to form a duct that forces the air through the radiator, which you will have to do in any case.
    Frans
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    Thanks Frans, I know what you mean, the front radiator really works so much better than all the best efforts to run it in the back even with current technology. Now I can sit at 115 k up a very long steep hill in top gear on a country road in summer and it just sits on 78 C.

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    I have a R12 fuel tank sitting in the front boot, though its sitting on the boot floor, so a little high and wasted boot space. Ideally it would be nice if I could recess it a little into the spare wheel area and still allow the wheel access. If the boot floor was rusted out I'd do it, though as rare as boot floors are i couldn't cut into a good one. Though a custom one that could be hidden is what I'd prefer.
    The rad is a fuego one, that has twin thermo's that come on at 78oC I think. I even installed a custom temp gauge to confirm temp, and a red LED that comes on when the thermo's do. The LED was an idea that came about when the old temp switch died and I couldn't tell or hear that the fans weren't working.
    My system finally worked a treat after I'd ironed out my stuff up, and the fans would turn on, but at higher speeds it had good air flow and they'd turn off again. Unfortunately for me, soon after I'd got it sorted I put the car sideways, and a year later and I still haven't had the chance to fix it. But I'm on my third RS since then so I can't complain to much, though I do miss the Floride.

  9. #59
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Just for reference: R8 Radiator move to the front

    Frans.
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  10. #60
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    Frans, we all know a front rad works and works well, and a lot of guys who have competitive cars will install it in the front.
    My point is, in a Floride restoration not Floride race car would it not be better to be a little sympathetic to original design and not bastardise it by putting the rad in the front.
    It still works fine in its original location with a larger rad and fans.
    I think a Floride should still look like a Floride from the outside and mods not visible at all, that's why I dislike when they have been Caravelled and you can pick it straight away.
    Most Florides have had a Caravelle/R10 rear end upgrade and disc brakes installed which then gives you the head ache of where to put a fuel tank, but even with the R12 or R16 engines the cooling system should still be fine in it original location.
    Its all about trial and error with Floride mods and I've been there, all that I haven't worked out yet is an ideal type and location for a fuel tank.
    If one wants to bastardise their Floride, fine, its their car, I'm just giving my advice from experience, but someone please work out the best fuel tank problem and let me know.
    John
    Александър Кристоф Шанел

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    Thanks for all the input. No offence taken, I have a bastardised Gordini with a 1600 (plus) engine so I may as well have a bastardised Floride to match. Even when I had my first R8 and then R10 I just happen to like having a car with more grunt, stopping power and handling than the standard version. My modified Renaults back in the late 60's would hose off the average 1100 Gordini in handling, acceleration and stopping. Same with my other various road and race cars over the years some of which still hold lap records at tracks that have now closed such as Amaroo Park and Oran Park.

    After nearly 50 years of doing it I'm not going to stop now.

    Most people these days don't know why the engine is in the boot so I doubt they will figure out where the radiator should be.

  12. #62
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    Don't get me wrong, a Floride needs to be bastardised, but just done tastefully, so the naked eye can't tell, unless you look under its skin.
    John
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    I had a Caravelle in ZA that I fitted a 18 Turbo motor in. One of the best driveable cars I had!

    No you can't fit both tanks Peter because the Floride gearbox doesn't have the stabiliser bars running diagonally to the front. When the R8/R10 gearbox is used that tank has to be removed.

    It was a reasonably easy build as well because of the 16TS bell housing that bolts straight onto the R8 box and then to the engine. The only thing to look out for is when the 16TS bell housing is fitted that the oil seal area on the spigot matches that of the seal. I think there is a difference. Radiator to the front is a recommendation on my behalf because then you will know that it is sufficient from the the word go.

    Another mod on this project was a heat shield over the turbo because it was a little too close to the bonnet and I thought it might damage the paint work.

    Clutch mechanism had to be modified as well.

    Regards
    Frans.
    A misunderstanding somewhere. I know about the Floride (4CV, Dauphine) tank location & the potential right semi-trailing arm control link going right through its position; I had the same decision in the 4CVG. Although I'd used fabricated pure leading arm toe control arms for decades when the 4CV was basically Dauphine Gordini bits in a 4CV shell, I didn't hesitate at all in moving to the geometrically less compromised R10 system (welded a R10 semi-trailing arm mounting cross member to the 4CV floor pan).

    A bit of a pity as the original fuel tank was in the ideal position under the rear seat.

    What I meant was can one not put a custom fuel tank transversely up against the "firewall" & still have room to build in a front radiator?

    cheers! Peter

  14. #64
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    I've thought about it but never took any measurements when I had my rad surround made up and installed.
    It is tight in there, you just have to allow enough air flow from the side air intakes.
    I suppose its do able just not sure if the tank would be big enough, 25 to 30ltr would be ideal.

    sorry just reread your post, people use an R10 tank and it ends up to close to the engine, ideally a Caravelle tank as its made to suit, then you could install the rad in the front.
    Last edited by 63-1092; 19th July 2016 at 06:30 PM.
    John
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    Quote Originally Posted by 63-1092 View Post
    I've thought about it but never took any measurements when I had my rad surround made up and installed.
    It is tight in there, you just have to allow enough air flow from the side air intakes.
    I suppose its do able just not sure if the tank would be big enough, 25 to 30ltr would be ideal.

    sorry just reread your post, people use an R10 tank and it ends up to close to the engine, ideally a Caravelle tank as its made to suit, then you could install the rad in the front.
    Still misunderstanding going on? My proposal is for a radiator in the front of the car (in the nose) & for a custom fuel tank in the front too (in the boot - butted up against the panel under the windscreen).

    I managed that in the 4CVG, as have others. In my case, the front panel got surgery but others (Steve Cavanaugh for one) have put an R16 radiator slanted in the spare wheel slot & with minimal visual difference to standard.

    On one side my old radiator air slot in front of the wheel feeds a cold air box &, on the other, directs airflow over the extractor primary & secondary pipes.

    4CVG pic of front below.

    cheers! Peter

    1959 Floride Restoration-750-003-front-open-close-up.jpg1959 Floride Restoration-750-002-front-open.jpg
    Last edited by 4cvg; 19th July 2016 at 11:47 PM.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bustamif View Post
    I believe the tank that came with my "Floride" is R10/R8. The rear firewall panel that covers the tank seems to be missing as I continue to learn about Florides and Caravelles and sort through all the parts.
    I found that panel, it was in two parts which is why I did not recognise it on first inspection. I think I will opt out of the further discussion about front mounted radiators as I have made my decision.

    Cheers.
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  17. #67
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    Progress has been slow. I do not have enough space in the shed to put the car on the rotisserie until I sell my Lotus Renault (hopefully someone who canít find a good, genuine A110 will buy it ).

    Since I have not been able to start the serious stuff, repairing the rusty chassis parts and shell, I have been accumulating hard to find major mechanical parts. Thanks to a lead from AF, I followed up on a R17/18 engine (with an unusual history) plus additional parts stashed in a shearing shed near Bega.

    The alternator is driven off the crank pulley but the problem is that it has a 16TS head so I need to change the water flow so the water pump and fittings are on the crank pulley end.

    The good news is the engine came with two spare blocks, crankshafts, rods etc. I will have plenty of spares for the Floride and R8G plus I will be able to answer any request from BrettR if he is after some part on a Sunday afternoon !

    The engine seems pretty good and has a Waggot Cam. Ill take the head off, do the water flow mods, freshen it up then take a look at the cam and bottom end.

    1959 Floride Restoration-tricfdc.jpg 1959 Floride Restoration-tria9bb.jpg

    It will look like a normal Floride to most people until you open the engine lid.

  18. #68
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    Finally started welding the chassis. Have to do some rust repairs and add some stiffening to the chassis rails before I can hang it on the rotisserie.

    Some work already done on the brakes, cleaning up the pedal assembly and sorting various calipers that have been rebuilt. After a good result with the 1600 R8G I will fit a 22mm A110 tandem master cylinder to the Floride and remove the internals of the rear pressure limiter. A note to anyone doing this, dont forget to seal it up after removing the guts. I have a good set of brake lines for the Floride after upgrading the R8 to street legal braided stainless.

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    Brettr called in today to check progress and discuss a few design ideas. We came up with a mock up front spoiler to keep the nose down and more aerodynamically stable over 110kph. There was not a lot of design thought in that direction from Renault back in the day, I guess the standard cars werenít fast enough to worry about that stuff.

    The big gearbox is now under construction, rust has all been cut out with a new floor and rear seat area. The chassis is now all dead straight. The body will be painted soon and i will be installing suspension and brakes. An A110 Tandem master cylinder is on the way, I have a good pair of front discs and all the calipers have been rebuilt.

    Since it is not really a Floride restoration and more of a Caravelle rejuvenation, maybe I should change the name of the thread.

    1959 Floride Restoration-tri809d.jpg
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  20. #70
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    Looks like it still has a bit of lotus paint on it!
    KB


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    Yes KB, that spoiler has been tested through turn 1 Phillip Island @ 243 KPH (Renault powered Lotus of course)

    That spoiler started life on a Datsun 240Z before being shaped to fit the Lotus. When we offered it up this afternoon we could not believe how well it fitted. Maybe a bit of Floride influence in a 240Z ?

    We also tried a rear wing extension I had in the shed from the 1984 ex Mark Surer/Niki Lauda Gp 5 BMW and it fitted too ! We wont go there just yet as it may offend some Renault Floride purists.

    World time attack is on this weekend so I am getting a little too much inspiration.

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