Bx 16v 1993
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  1. #1
    Member jorgen's Avatar
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    Default Bx 16v 1993

    Some pre restoration pictures of the BX that I made today.

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/avh489oyopv8e9a/Yd5_GA3Te8

    The good:
    1) engine and gearbox seem strong and there are no obvious leaks.
    2) No major structural rust that I could obviously see.
    3) abs, windscreen wipers and electric window and mirror switches work
    4) hatch stays open.
    5) all lights work except one fog and the central interior light.
    6) interior in good condition
    7) cams approved body, no sunroof and steel bonnet.
    8) It has all 5 alloys.
    9) Car started straight away after not being started for 6 days.
    10) Car is straight and is well balanced.
    11) all the 1100km home the cars water temp was 90degrees...

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    The bad:
    1) No Speedo
    2) cracked windscreen and needs replacing.
    3) several lhm leaks see photos. Octopus has never been changed.
    4) front spheres are in poor condition and I think need replacing soon.
    5) tires need replacing.
    6) no male latches for the rear seat.
    7) no demister, aircon has been removed. (don't need that in Tassie anyway)
    8) 3rd break light is missing.
    9) oil temp not working.
    10) front struts seem very stiff, the previous owner did say he over pressurised them, but it might need new struts. Some sign of lhm leaks on both inner guards.
    11) Exhaust is good but not standard and might not pass a roadworthy here.
    12) Car needs a full respray as clear is coming off...

    So all in all a lot of work. Look forward to your comments...
    Last edited by jorgen; 16th February 2014 at 10:59 PM.

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! frog's Avatar
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    Great to see some photos, Looks like you have a good list there.
    Also work out when the cam belt was last done, should be done around every 4 years or 80K?
    Check the fuel rail seals on the injectors and regulator, make sure they're not leaking, perishing.
    Then you can look at other stuff like rear arm bearings, replace all fluids etc.

    With the sticky front struts, if you compress the suspension boot up all the way to the top you can reach in and up to apply some fresh grease around the top of the strut; then follow with some citroen aerobics (up down up down etc). The chaps in the UK disconnect the strut return pipes, put the car on low to expel old LHM, then put the ends of the pipes in fresh LHM and raise the car to (in theory) suck fresh LHM into the struts. I've not done this and I'm sure there is a better write up on the BX club uk forum, may be worth a try.

    I'll PM you some other general sources of info on the car for your perusal.

    Look like you'll have fun cleaning it all up, mine was similarly dirty/leaky.
    It is very therapeutic and maddening all at the same time.

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! Mungous's Avatar
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    Stuffed front spheres will certainly make the front end feel stiff! If you're unsure of the state of the hydraulics you should get the spheres regassed (and the LHM replaced, but best to do that once you've sorted the myriad of return hose leaks you probably need to fix!)

    The LHM stains under the guards don't look like too much of an issue - but the strut return hoses look like they're well gone.

    I've got the same car in the same colour - loving that you're saving another one!

  4. #4
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Good underpinnings by the sound of it.

    I've been the "lubricate the struts" route and it definitely worked but not for long, at least in our case. Last year we sent them to Pleiades for a serious rebuild and the results were wonderful. Pleiades also has some reconditioned rear trailing arms in stock, done with heavy oil lubrication and seals - they reckon this is the best way and it makes sense to me.

    The nearest to disaster our BX has ever come was when the fuel pipe from the rear pump to the front failed from old age and squirted fuel continuously all over the engine. Fortunately for our daughter and grandson it didn't catch fire before I smelled the problem and investigated. I'd suggest replacing the whole fuel line. Seriously.

    BX windscreens are available - we put a new one in last year at Windscreens O'Brien, who did a perfectly competent job.

    Good luck with the rest too. Great cars.
    JohnW

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    Member jorgen's Avatar
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    I put the car on the hoist for an hour at a local european mechanic to have a good look around. The car made a real mess on his floor ;-)

    The news was good and the lhm leak is hopefully fixed. A join had disintegrated on 3 places and after replacing the join no obvious leaks appeared. The octopus could use a replacement at one stage, but it will pass a roadworthy hopefully, if no new leaks appear The rear leak is very minor, as the lhm appears to have run down to the rear suspension and back wheel.

    After the leak was fixed, the spheres and suspension felt much better. I suspect that the join was blocking the fluid by collapsing.

    Things that appeared were a split RH cv boot and a ring came loose on the drive shaft (I am not sure what that means and you can see it on the previous photos too), the middle exhaust bracket has broken off and requires welding.

    I wish I had a hoist at home.. So much easier to work on a car. I will post a couple of photos in the next days with the loose wires I found. I think the oil temp sensor is cut, but I am not sure which wire. Some input would be helpful. I will give the car a good clean as well as currently I can't see much with all the lhm under the car. The car stinks of lhm that is being burned on the exhaust...

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    Fellow Frogger! Mungous's Avatar
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    You'll be chasing your tail forever if you just repair small sections of return hose as they split. Bite the bullet and do the octopod! The LHM return system will have no effect on the ride.

    That ring on the R/H driveshaft looked odd - there is usually a rubber cover that is supposed to sit on the driveshaft next to the gearbox side seal. But they usually become loose and wander around all over the place. What is that ring made of? Perhaps it is part of an old seal or something?

    Oil temp sender is in the back of the sump near the drain bung. The wire goes up the back of the crankcase (between the engine mount and the block to keep it away from the driveshaft) and up to the engine loom. Check it isn't the sender at fault by earthing the wire and watching the gauge.

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    Member jorgen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mungous View Post
    You'll be chasing your tail forever if you just repair small sections of return hose as they split. Bite the bullet and do the octopod! The LHM return system will have no effect on the ride.

    That ring on the R/H driveshaft looked odd - there is usually a rubber cover that is supposed to sit on the driveshaft next to the gearbox side seal. But they usually become loose and wander around all over the place. What is that ring made of? Perhaps it is part of an old seal or something?
    Mongous, I agree the octopus needs changing and I definitely will, but I have only 11 weeks left to get the car roadworthy. I tried to contact several suppliers and no one has one in stock.

    Regarding the drive shaft: I am not sure. It felt like a steel ring and it fitted on the opposite site of the diff. The car has had a quaiff differential fitted, and the owner said he had to make some alterations to be able to fit it.

    Regarding the fuel lines: Thanks for the good advise.

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    Member jorgen's Avatar
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    Another question: Does anyone know if still rubber window seals are still available for the bx? Mine are too short on all doors and the driver side is missing and the rear hatch window seal is severely perished.

    When respraying I will need some new seals. I tried google but came up with nothing.

  9. #9
    Member jorgen's Avatar
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    The bx went today for a week to a local body shop to get a closed door respray.

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    Member jorgen's Avatar
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    Does anyone know where i can get new window seals for a bx?

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! Mungous's Avatar
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    New? You'd be lucky. I found mine were all gappy around the corners of the windows, so pulled the sides up to close those gaps. That seemed to work well.

    You may find a good set of second hand ones will do the trick for you.

  12. #12
    Member jorgen's Avatar
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    I had a call from O'Brien glass and my windscreen arrived, but it got damaged during transport from Sydney. It will take another week to get here. Hmm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgen View Post
    Another question: Does anyone know if still rubber window seals are still available for the bx? Mine are too short on all doors and the driver side is missing and the rear hatch window seal is severely perished.

    When respraying I will need some new seals. I tried google but came up with nothing.
    Yes all are available

    Main windscreen:
    CITROEN BX 1983 - 1993 WINDSCREEN MOULDING | eBay

    Rear screen hatch:
    CITROEN BX HATCHBACK 1983 - 1993 REAR SCREEN MOULDING | eBay

    Rear screen estate:
    CITROEN BX ESTATE 1983 - 1993 REAR SCREEN MOULDING | eBay

    Side door seals are available
    Hint: When searching for what we call rubber seals, use moulding instead.
    Last edited by flipperman; 25th February 2014 at 10:37 PM.
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    - 1990 BX TRI Estate Manual. .. . "Phoenix" - "Donated to Science"
    - 1990 BX TRI Estate Auto. (Traded In)
    - 1987 BX TRI Hatch.

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  14. #14
    Member jorgen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipperman View Post
    Side door seals are available
    Hint: When searching for what we call rubber seals, use moulding instead.
    Thanks you. That will be great. In the mean time, I have decided to do a complete respray on the whole car.

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! frog's Avatar
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    Sounds great that the car is being resprayed.

    A few things I noticed in your photos.
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/avh489oyo...l-IMAG0126.jpg
    I don't think this part of the steering rack actually needs a boot so that's fine.
    Also there should be a cover over the pulley on the end of the cam for the high pressure pump.

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/avh489oyo...l-IMAG0118.jpg
    That bolt through the hole in the inner arch is the mount for the top engine mount. There should be a rubber grommet that fits into that hole to keep the dirt out.

    The car has silicone bakerbm coolant hoses.

    Not sure I like the foam filter/afm setup. This would be fairly easy to return to stock if you found a parts car as all the AFM's are the same on the 1.9L petrol EFI BX's. (So you could take one from a TRi, TZi etc). Also Bakerbm make a silicone AFM to throttle body hose (that one seems a bit short for the standard AFM/filter setup).

    Apart from that the car looks good! Can't wait to see it with some new paint!

  16. #16
    Member jorgen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frog View Post
    A few things I noticed in your photos.
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/avh489oyo...l-IMAG0126.jpg
    I don't think this part of the steering rack actually needs a boot so that's fine.
    Yes thank you, after studying the parts manual I noticed that too

    Quote Originally Posted by frog View Post
    Also there should be a cover over the pulley on the end of the cam for the high pressure pump.

    That bolt through the hole in the inner arch is the mount for the top engine mount. There should be a rubber grommet that fits into that hole to keep the dirt out.
    Thank you I had noticed this hole, but I wasn't sure what it was for. I will add the grommet to the list. Any idea what the hole is for?

    Quote Originally Posted by frog View Post
    Not sure I like the foam filter/afm setup. This would be fairly easy to return to stock if you found a parts car as all the AFM's are the same on the 1.9L petrol EFI BX's. (So you could take one from a TRi, TZi etc). Also Bakerbm make a silicone AFM to throttle body hose (that one seems a bit short for the standard AFM/filter setup).

    Apart from that the car looks good! Can't wait to see it with some new paint!
    No, I don't like it either and it will not pass a roadworthy. The original airfilter was supplied with the car, so that will be an easy one to fix.

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    Fellow Frogger! frog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgen View Post
    Thank you I had noticed this hole, but I wasn't sure what it was for. I will add the grommet to the list. Any idea what the hole is for?
    The hole is the way you access the bolt that fixes the engine mount in place.

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    Some pictures of the car at the moment. The dents are taken out and the lock has been straightened. Some more trim needs still to be removed. The car might be ready for paint tomorrow... https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tfqm9k4rjo140cc/YdZkAe8gP1

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    Update - the red bx16v is still at the paint shop. A new spray booth and some urgent jobs have delayed things. Hopefully it is ready by Thursday this week. The good news is the car hasn't lost any fluids while sitting at the painters.

    I purchased another 1991 16v and picked it up today. This car was in the hands of a follow frogger here in Launceston. I couldn't resist. (Wife not overly enthusiastic and is questioning my sanity ;-))

    The good: Low mileage estimated 150k non restored car. It had timing belt and tensioners recently done and it received a new exhaust and newish tires. The interior is excellent, except some plastic issues and a few stitches have come loose in the driver seat. The car had a roof respray in its history. The car is currently registered and handles well. Abs functions and the engine sounds good. Electric roof and windows are all operational. Oil, water and temp sensors are all working. The last 15 years or so the car hasn't seen any rain...

    The bad: Synchros are shaky, Speedo cable is broken, some minor electrical issues, such as electric mirrors and windscreen wipers. It needs a good general service. The engine has an oil leak. The air conditioning isn't working and there seem to be a few weird wiring issues.

    Apparently it has sometimes a problem with high idling on startup, but I haven't encountered this. It sounded like a sticking idling stepper motor issue.

    Not really the parts car I was looking for, but eh good examples of 16v are becoming more rare. The upside if I have two road going examples, I get around the issue that bx16v like the garage more then the road. ;-)

  20. #20
    Member jorgen's Avatar
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    The red bx is still at the spray painters. It is taking a long time. I am getting slowly worried, but not much I can do about that. Anyway the wait is a good excuse to take the silver 1990 out for a spin and a shake down. Gee I love these cars. I put the kids bicycles in the back and met my wife at the river and after that I went for a good shake down across C roads. roflmao:I was impressed. I took some pictures from the exterior for you all to see.The engine is very smooth (and clearly a low milage example) and the car handled well. OIl and water temperatures behaved in the desired range even when the car was pushed on the country (4000-6000 rpm for 30 minutes). The car does still have weird electrics. You start the car with a push button near the front fog lights but the key does still need in the ignition. The car was sitting for 10 days and started straight away after sitting 10 days.I had two times on start up that the battery light stayed on but then after a restart all was OK again. Weird. Just thinking about it actually could be an earthing issue. Especially as the fog lights, electric mirrors and radio receptions all do weird things. I have to investigate that. The gearbox has definite some issues though. Synchros on 2 and 3/4 are definitely dodgy. I hope double clutching will prolong the gear box. As well there are some oil leaks, nothing too be worried about it (50ml in 10 days)The car is stock standard, less a new exhaust and so a good comparison for the red one. I preferred the softer front suspension on this one, so I have to reduce the sphere pressure on the front in the red one. Anyone has a good "how to"?You definitely notice the top-end difference with my 1993 stage 1 cam grind and cpu upgrades on the red car, but never the less a commodore was surprised upon the take off at the lights. On the country roads with wooden bridges the car came in its element. :-)I couldn't feel a weight difference as the red one has a steel bonnet and this one a plastic one, but it has still the aircon in place (non working). the photos are here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tphcu42j4o6zrx8/uB8tyCZ4C6All in all, a good day and I have still a grin on my face.

  21. #21
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    Reducing sphere pressure will make the ride firmer. Get them regassed to the correct pressures all round. I think the CCC of Vic do cheap regassing for their members at technical days, or by negotiation at other times if you post them.

    Richard

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    Fellow Frogger! frog's Avatar
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    That grey BX looks mint. I would have a look at the wiring around the engine bay, in the scuttle, under the front bumper etc. I've found that rodents seem to love the taste of BX wiring looms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frog View Post
    I've found that rodents seem to love the taste of BX wiring looms.
    Haha, true but I think that this time an auto elec was the rodent. It seems that it had some ignition issues in the past and an auto elec bypassed the steering lock.

    It actually not as bad as I initially thought. You just need to make sure that the key is on ON. You can start the car on ACC, but then off course it comes up with faults...

    Just the whole under dash panel isn't working (fog lights and electric mirrors) as the starter button is located there and all dash illumination lights are dead.

  24. #24
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    The 1993 bx is very red. The delay was caused by a poor paint job and some larger rust repairs. The car still needs buffing, windows and trims. Bx 16v 1993-1397696483294.jpg
    Mungous, frog and UFO like this.

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    Fellow Frogger! Mungous's Avatar
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    I want to make my red BX16v look this shiny!

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