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Thread: 1927? Renault KZ2

  1. #26
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    I suggest you watch this video.... I reckon it is fully memorable....

    https://grrc.goodwood.com/race/histo...time-100-years

    And, don't stand THERE to start any engine with a crank handle....

    Good to follow progress with the great old Renault.

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    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
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  2. #27
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    My god!! Instant broken leg (at best) if it backfired. I don't like cranking engines - to the extent that I don't carry the crank handle in any vintage car I have owned. Might have to with the renault as the handbook suggests that if it doesn't fire straight away on the dynastart it sould be cranked. I don't fancy finding someone who knows how to rebuiltd a fried dynastart...or paying the bill if there is such a person out there

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    I suggest you watch this video.... I reckon it is fully memorable....

    https://grrc.goodwood.com/race/histo...time-100-years

    And, don't stand THERE to start any engine with a crank handle....

    Good to follow progress with the great old Renault.

    Cheers
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

  3. #28
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1915 type 153 View Post
    My god!! Instant broken leg (at best) if it backfired. I don't like cranking engines - to the extent that I don't carry the crank handle in any vintage car I have owned. Might have to with the renault as the handbook suggests that if it doesn't fire straight away on the dynastart it sould be cranked. I don't fancy finding someone who knows how to rebuiltd a fried dynastart...or paying the bill if there is such a person out there
    Thought you'd like it!

    I can crank start the R8 and the 750 easily, but am super careful regarding backfires and they are tiny engines. If you ever need to do it on the Renault, it needs much retardation on the ignition timing...
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Thought you'd like it!

    I can crank start the R8 and the 750 easily, but am super careful regarding backfires and they are tiny engines. If you ever need to do it on the Renault, it needs much retardation on the ignition timing...
    There is no manual spark control for the Renualt, it has a centrifugal advance in the back of the mag. The Peugeot 153 is the same. I couldn't work it out for the Peugeot, I knew that model doesn't have an advance/retard lever but it was only when I tracked down the correct mag that I realised that had an automatic advance as well. Pretty advanced for 1915.
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

  5. #30
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1915 type 153 View Post
    There is no manual spark control for the Renualt, it has a centrifugal advance in the back of the mag. The Peugeot 153 is the same. I couldn't work it out for the Peugeot, I knew that model doesn't have an advance/retard lever but it was only when I tracked down the correct mag that I realised that had an automatic advance as well. Pretty advanced for 1915.
    I'm amazed. I'd have thought there'd be a manual retard too. There you go.

    What do you think the quadrant control on the Adelaide car is about? I don't know. You can read the names at each end I think.

    Cheers
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1927? Renault KZ2-renault-steering-wheel-control.jpg  
    Last edited by JohnW; 31st December 2014 at 12:00 AM.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    I'm amazed. I'd have thought there'd be a manual retard too. There you go.

    What do you think the quadrant control on the Adelaide car is about? I don't know. You can read the names at each end I think.

    Cheers
    The inner lever is spark, down (Depart= start, so full retard, up to Marche = run, or full advance) the outer is hand throttle. Down for Ferme = closed up to Overt = open - full throttle

    Not all models have the automatic advance mags
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

  7. #32
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1915 type 153 View Post
    The inner lever is spark, down (Depart= start, so full retard, up to Marche = run, or full advance) the outer is hand throttle. Down for Ferme = closed up to Overt = open - full throttle

    Not all models have the automatic advance mags
    Thanks for that. Lovely isn't it.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  8. #33
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    I thought it was time I showed some progress on the KZ, a car which is slowly but surely driving me to distraction. I won't let the damn thing beat me, but it's been close to being abandoned more than once.

    Here's the fuel gauge, as it was when i started and the finished article. If I say so myself, i'm very pleased with the new face I had made, and really happy with my wood-graining attempt on the dash.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1927? Renault KZ2-20161211_101332.jpg   1927? Renault KZ2-20161211_132520.jpg   1927? Renault KZ2-20161218_152810.jpg  
    Demannu, JohnW and renoamust like this.
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

  9. #34
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1915 type 153 View Post
    I thought it was time I showed some progress on the KZ, a car which is slowly but surely driving me to distraction. I won't let the damn thing beat me, but it's been close to being abandoned more than once. Here's the fuel gauge, as it was when i started and the finished article. If I say so myself, i'm very pleased with the new face I had made, and really happy with my wood-graining attempt on the dash.
    That's lovely. I was wondering how the job was going.....

    Best wishes and do keep going!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1927? Renault KZ2-p2061172.jpg  
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    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  10. #35
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    This is what it will look like. Eventually...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1927? Renault KZ2-20151102_224923.jpg  
    JohnW likes this.
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

  11. #36
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    I thought the dash should be painted, until i had a closer look at an area where the original finish had been protected and it turns out it was wood-grained - metal painted to look like wood.

    There are people out there who do it, but it is bloody expensive, so I thought I'd give it a go.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1927? Renault KZ2-20141129_111915.jpg   1927? Renault KZ2-20141129_114345.jpg   1927? Renault KZ2-20150103_140016.jpg   1927? Renault KZ2-20150106_182908.jpg   1927? Renault KZ2-20161017_140316.jpg  
    renoamust likes this.
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

  12. #37
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    That's amazing - you'd never guess it wasn't wood. Right up there with the ladies who did Facel Vega dashboard painting with feathers. That last photo with the wonderful flywheel shown clearly is nice too. You seem to be making some progress there!

    That ally dashboard in the photo I posted is, as far as I'm aware, original (but from Acton not Billancourt).

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  13. #38
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    Yes, earlier cars all seem to have polished alloy dashboards.

    My woodgraining technique isn't quite to Facel Vega quality yet, then a 10CV Renault isn't a luxury car anyway, and I'm happy with it.
    JohnW likes this.
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

  14. #39
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    Nice work! Especially the gauge, was it screen printed?
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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    Nice work! Especially the gauge, was it screen printed?
    Thanks.
    It is a sticker, taken from a photo of an original gauge, which, after putting it on, I sprayed with a matt clear coat to match the original finish. I have a very clever graphic designer friend and she's really good at this sort of thing.
    Simon and JohnW like this.
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

  16. #41
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    One of the many things which were on the car when it was pulled off a farm in the late 50s to be restored which have since vanished is the mechanism to open and close the fresh air vent in the scuttle. As this is also the flap for the fuel filler it is kind of important to be able to open it, and equally, to be able to seal it shut in pissing rain so it doesn't fill the car with water.

    A deal with a clever engineer with a 1929 Renault Vivasix sedan with the same mechanism involving a swap for one of the re-printed 1927 Renault dealers catalogues which I have had done for a few hours of his time, and this is the result. Very pleased with it
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1927? Renault KZ2-20161015_163419.jpg  
    JohnW likes this.
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

  17. #42
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    As time draws near to when I start the motor (and there is much to tell here as it would, in anyone's world but mine, already be running) the ignition system needs to be sorted.

    As posted way back when, the plan is to convert it from magneto to coil ignition, but utilising the original magneto as a distributor. So, I give you the Magnibutor... a modern technical delight for the eyes and the making of sparks... I bloody hope.

    The coil is behind the dash, out of sight, but I still needed to put a condensor somewhere out of sight, but obviously it needs to be very close to the distributor points. My stoke of brilliance was to realise that with the magnets no longer being in place on the mag, there is now plenty of space under the steel cover which is pretending to be magnets. And by sending the wire, having replaced the ugly modern plastic coated wire with a nice vintage cotton-braided piece complete with proper brass terminal, out one of the magnet mounting screw holes I think i just might have completed a visually correct mag to distributor conversion.

    I think it will work... and one day I'll report back. there is just one small issue right now. The godforsaken motor has seized solid and no amount of oil, crc and kerosene down the plug holes seems to be making any difference in the result of me swinging off the crank handle

    sans condensor




    avec condensor





    Complet

    FIVEDOOR and JohnW like this.
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

  18. #43
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Really nice Magnibutor! Re the seized motor, bugger! Try diesel? Did it move before?
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Really nice Magnibutor! Re the seized motor, bugger! Try diesel? Did it move before?
    Not tried diesel yet. Just CRC and Kerosene. It had seized when i bought it. but CRC and rocking it in top gear worked. Not this time...
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1915 type 153 View Post
    Not tried diesel yet. Just CRC and Kerosene. It had seized when i bought it. but CRC and rocking it in top gear worked. Not this time...
    I can only wish you luck for an easy "unseize" with nothing broken, yourself included!
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  21. #46
    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1915 type 153 View Post
    Mine is the only one known here and there don't seem to be any in Australia either. There should be more somewhere!
    Good day. Well, we may have found one! A friend of mine has just bought what we think is a 1926/7 Renault KZ livestock carrier. We are in Scotland, just a bit away from you down there, but I'm hoping we may be able to glean a bit of info from you all. It was sold as a 1920 truck with a 1390cc engine. However, as it has Renault KZ on the plate, we think it's later, with a 2120 cc engine. The bonnet badge is the diamond shaped Renault emblem, so I think that dates it to post 1926. It is remarkably intact, and will be sympathetically improved, definitely not fully restored. It comes complete with a full set of joiners ( wood workers ) tools attached to any "wall space" available. It is right hand drive and looks to be complete. The engine turns over freely.

    Assuming it has the 2120cc engine, can anyone tell me what the correct firing order is. And is no1 at the rear by the radiator?

    1920 RENAULT Barn find project swap

    This is a link to the advert for the truck. I hope it works.

    Colin
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  22. #47
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    Hello Colin, and welcome to Aussiefrogs!

    Lovely! The link worked - I think some of us had seen that advertisement. What a lovely example of a 1920s commercial. I think the "sympathetically improved" approach is just great. It needs to be roadworthy and reliable first and foremost after all, and a bit of a tidy up will make it a lovely period piece.

    Have fun!

    (We passed another Perth in Scotland some years back, bit smaller than ours but what a great setting! )
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  23. #48
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    Sorry for taking so long to respond - i've been on the road running a week tour of New Zealand for a bunch of vintage Bentleys and Lagondas from all over the world and I've been out of touch with the outside world! I'll check out the firing order and get back to you

    I love the look of your little truck. I would guess (and it is a guess) that it is the type OS chassis - the beefed-up commercial version of the KZ. The extra wheel studs are the external give-away. The instrument panel looks more like 1929 but...

    Has it got a plate or cone clutch?


    Quote Originally Posted by pulhamdown View Post
    Good day. Well, we may have found one! A friend of mine has just bought what we think is a 1926/7 Renault KZ livestock carrier. We are in Scotland, just a bit away from you down there, but I'm hoping we may be able to glean a bit of info from you all. It was sold as a 1920 truck with a 1390cc engine. However, as it has Renault KZ on the plate, we think it's later, with a 2120 cc engine. The bonnet badge is the diamond shaped Renault emblem, so I think that dates it to post 1926. It is remarkably intact, and will be sympathetically improved, definitely not fully restored. It comes complete with a full set of joiners ( wood workers ) tools attached to any "wall space" available. It is right hand drive and looks to be complete. The engine turns over freely.

    Assuming it has the 2120cc engine, can anyone tell me what the correct firing order is. And is no1 at the rear by the radiator?

    1920 RENAULT Barn find project swap

    This is a link to the advert for the truck. I hope it works.

    Colin
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

  24. #49
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    I struck a bit of a problem just before Christmas when I arranged for a friend to come around to help time the magneto/distributor. The night before, I put the front bumper back on and tried to turn the motor over on the crank... and the bastard thing had seized solid! Thinking back, it had been a year since the bumper was lost on, which it need to be in order to crank it.

    After lots of kerosene was poured down the plug holed, and lots of rocking it back and forward in top gear, last week it finally let go. Not being sure why it would do this, I though it wouldn't be a bad idea to take the head off and have a look at the bores, in case there might have been rust or something in there.

    I didn't find why it had seized but I did find something... and I don't like the look of it. This car is going to put me in the asylum!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1927? Renault KZ2-20170325_104756.jpg  
    Last edited by 1915 type 153; 27th March 2017 at 09:29 PM. Reason: Illiterate bastard
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

  25. #50
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    After a few deep breaths I decided to remove the offending piston. How hard should that be? Quite bloody hard as it turns out. Obviously, the first thing is to take the sump off. That can't be done with the engine in the chassis. A mate came around on Easter Monday and I now have a totally bare chassis and the motor is out.
    Tomorrow I'll take the sump off and take the rod and piston out. Then I'm going to the pub. I may be some time...1927? Renault KZ2-20170417_115133.jpg
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

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